Discussion: LGBTQ+ Rights XVI - Part 6

[MaceB]

Half of Americans don't believe that gay conversion therapy works. I think, in general, gay conversion therapy has been rightly outed as ineffective at best, cruel at worst. Only profoundly confused individuals think that their gayness is something that needs to be cured. In fact, curing it... is only burying it. 8 times out of 10... surpressing your natural desires is just going to cause trouble for yourself personally, financially, emotionally, health wise... you name it. It's better to accept yourself, rather than try to change yourself.

As for the Cain thing, I think he's right honestly. It's his business if he wants to be there, and he clearly doesn't share that group's beliefs. If he feels like he's there as some kind of ambassador for the LGTBQ cause... in the pit of the lions den... hey whatever, more power to him. I think it brings up obvious connections (I wouldn't go to a KKK meeting to shame KKK members for example), but if he doesn't mind baring those misconceptions... so be it, it's his choice to make.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Half of Americans don't believe that gay conversion therapy works. I think, in general, gay conversion therapy has been rightly outed as ineffective at best, cruel at worst. Only profoundly confused individuals think that their gayness is something that needs to be cured. In fact, curing it... is only burying it. 8 times out of 10... surpressing your natural desires is just going to cause trouble for yourself personally, financially, emotionally, health wise... you name it. It's better to accept yourself, rather than try to change yourself.

As for the Cain thing, I think he's right honestly. It's his business if he wants to be there, and he clearly doesn't share that group's beliefs. If he feels like he's there as some kind of ambassador for the LGTBQ cause... in the pit of the lions den... hey whatever, more power to him. I think it brings up obvious connections (I wouldn't go to a KKK meeting to shame KKK members for example), but if he doesn't mind baring those misconceptions... so be it, it's his choice to make.

It is his right to choice to be there, and it is other's right to question that choice.

But as he embarrassingly attempts to play both sides, I think the claim that he is "right" is BS. He isn't there to fight against these people and their gross, toxic, dangerous beliefs. He is there to appeal to them, get them to see his movie.

 

[MaceB]

You're right.. I'm thinking about it more now... and I wouldn't go. I wouldn't want to be associated with those people. He's choosing to do so, and the consequences of that association should be a given. He has no right to complain about it.

I think I was coming at it from a place of thinking it's not faire to assume his opinions based on the chance events he attends to promote his product. But it does say that he's willing to compromise his beliefs to shill.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You're right.. I'm thinking about it more now... and I wouldn't go. I wouldn't want to be associated with those people. He's choosing to do so, and the consequences of that association should be a given. He has no right to complain about it.

I think I was coming at it from a place of thinking it's not faire to assume his opinions based on the chance events he attends to promote his product. But it does say that he's willing to compromise his beliefs to shill.

I have seen people go to KKK rallies to observe, to learn. Here it just felt like Cain was there to promote his film, and may have been frustrated with the response to his attendance. But honestly, I don't know if it was that, or he was using the reaction to appeal to the audience there. Considering the subject matter of the movie, that seems plausible.

 

[Aximili86]

Here it just felt like Cain was there to promote his film

Ever think maybe these types of Christian McChristian audiences are the only ones giving his abortion-doctor (so damn funny people are taking umbrage at that phrase Cain's using, they're all "just call him a doctor!", ignoring the fact the guy only did abortions) movie a venue/audience?

He's on record as being pro-LGBT (the article even makes a point of it), even if it conflicts with his personal religious-dude ethos or whatever. I doubt the conversion therapy thing even crossed his mind here (if he was even aware they're backers of the practice), he just turned up to push his movie about the criminal doctor guy to a pro-life audience (sounds like nobody else wants a piece of it), and made a few comments about how these Christian types have a bit of a hard time with protestors. Yeah, he threw the word "intolerant" out there, which is kinda funny given the Christian's/Family Values types' own obvious displays of the same thing.

But guess he's not entirely wrong, if you're all Church Lady these days you're not exactly going to want to speak your take on the world in polite company, at least not unless you're open to being picketed and accosted over it. Which is fine too, everyone gets their say, either side of the equation, the protestors aren't wrong either. Cain basically seemed pretty polite & civil about it all, single accusation of intolerance aside, so whatever.

Not like he's the only one, guys like Kelsey Grammer have been saying this stuff for years, "it's better to just keep it to yourself, religious/old-timey views aren't welcome here."

Cain doesn't strike me as the type of person to actually support conversion therapy & stuff, seems like a case of wrong-place-wrong-time and he was dumb enough to talk about anything other than the movie he's pushing.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

This centrist act needs new material.

 

[Aximili86]

Again, you're sweet. Differing opinions, the horror.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

There is differing opinions and then there are opinions so clearly told in bad faith, that discussing them would just perpetuate the BS.

 

[Aximili86]

Which is opinion. Look, I'm with you on this group being not exactly great people. Just not sure it's worth getting up-in-arms at Cain over, in the scheme of crazy political talk it's pretty damn mild, especially these days.

It's dumb, bothering to point out people being intolerant of intolerant people. Agreed - the fact he doesn't seem to see the irony there is worthy of an eye-roll. That's just life though, everyone sees everyone else as an a$$hole now and there's no common ground. The other side's the "enemy", the protestors and the Jesus Freaks are guilty on it alike, and Cain just happened to be preaching to the choir given where he was. It's a jump from there to "Dean Cain thinks we should try to convert gay kids".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Which is opinion. Look, I'm with you on this group being not exactly great people. Just not sure it's worth getting up-in-arms at Cain over, in the scheme of crazy political talk it's pretty damn mild, especially these days.

It's dumb, bothering to point out people being intolerant of intolerant people. Agreed - the fact he doesn't seem to see the irony there is worthy of an eye-roll. That's just life though, everyone sees everyone else as an a$$hole now and there's no common ground. The other side's the "enemy", the protestors and the Jesus Freaks are guilty on it alike, and Cain just happened to be preaching to the choir given where he was. It's a jump from there to "Dean Cain thinks we should try to convert gay kids".

You are not with me on anything. And the idea that all opinion is valid is a very good example of bad faith. Supporting or ignoring people who torture children because they are awful human beings who can't accept people for who they is bad bordering on evil. That isn't an opinion. It's rather factual.

 

[Silvermoth]

Dean Cain Slams LGBTQ Activists' 'Intolerance' to Anti-Gay Hate Group

No, sis...

Geez and this from one of the campiest supermen?

Seems to be a trend for 90s washed up tv stars. In other news, Cain slams Jewish people for ‘intolerance’ to nazis

 

[Aximili86]

You are not with me on anything. And the idea that all opinion is valid is a very good example of bad faith. Supporting or ignoring people who torture children because they are awful human beings who can't accept people for who they is bad bordering on evil. That isn't an opinion. It's rather factual.

He hasn't supported that though. This Christians R Us group has, and we don't really have anything to go on as far as what Cain actually knows about them. He's pushing an anti-abortion movie he can't exactly push in mainstream Hollywood circles, he knows the Christians will eat it up, he ends up at their event. Protestors are there and he drops a comment about him feeling they're intolerant.

Which, yeah, is hypocritical on a good day. It's still pretty smallfry in the scheme of things, and certainly isn't an indication the guy personally agrees with conversion therapy.

 

[Silvermoth]

Oh I’m so over bad news! Here’s some happy news

Images of the first ever gay Royal Family wedding released

Lord Ivar Mountbatten, the Queen's third cousin once removed, married his partner James Coyle in Devon on Saturday (22 September).
2018-09-25


The first ever same-sex royal wedding has taken place, in a landmark moment for the British aristocracy.

Lord Ivar Mountbatten, the Queen's third cousin once removed, wed his partner James Coyle, 56, in a luxurious ceremony in Devon on Saturday (22 September), the Daily Mail reports.

And now, on his Instagram account, Mountbatten has released some of the images from his happy day.

 

[Herofan]

I'm surprised and impressed that Cain considers himself pro-choice even though he's clearly not devout enough to the position to consider himself liberal overall or to avoid anti-abortion movies. With there being a lot of polarization (and extremes in both factions) it really is pretty difficult for moderate people and celebs to work without offending someone.

 

[THORin]

Has anything happened in the LGBTQ community lately? I've not been following the news recently, to avoid horror stories of murdered journalists and the like. Did anyone noteworthy come out on National Coming Out Day this year?

 

[Pink Ranger]

Has anything happened in the LGBTQ community lately? I've not been following the news recently, to avoid horror stories of murdered journalists and the like. Did anyone noteworthy come out on National Coming Out Day this year?

Cher released an album of ABBA songs, it's not very good, and the only person with the courage to point that out is me. Now where's my ****ing Nobel Prize?

 

[THORin]

Never liked Cher much.

 

[Schlosser85]

Cher isn’t a very good singer. And my roommate would shoot me for saying so.

 

[Schlosser85]

Trump administration eyes defining transgender out of existence.

“Sex means a person’s status as male or female based on immutable biological traits identifiable by or before birth,” the department proposed in the memo, which was drafted and has been circulating since last spring. “The sex listed on a person’s birth certificate, as originally issued, shall constitute definitive proof of a person’s sex unless rebutted by reliable genetic evidence.”

Trump Administration Eyes Defining Transgender Out of Existence

 

[Teelie]

That ****show isn't going to go over well because genetics isn't that clear cut. There are so many variations on sex chromosomes. The sooner Trump and his incomptent administration is gone the better.

Klinefelter Syndrome for example or XXY Syndrome.

 

[THORin]

The sooner Trump and his incomptent administration is gone the better.

You can say that again! Blue Wave! LGBTQ Wave!

 

[AResistor]

For people looking for a way to fight back against the Trump regime targeting transgendered, donate to Trans Lifeline. It's a hotline to talk people through depression and suicidal thoughts - calls have recently doubled. Here's a short interview with representatives.

 

[Schlosser85]

Caitlyn Jenner: 'I was wrong' about Trump being good for LGBT people

 

[Teelie]

Sometimes it takes an extremely hard slap to the face, or more like a punch to the face for Jenner, to realize that sometimes a Trump is a Trump and will never change.

 

[Sithborg]

I mean, if Pence wasn't that slap in the face, then sorry, you are an idiot.