🇺🇸 Discussion: Guns, The Second Amendment, NRA - Part II

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]535999[/split]

 

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]505125[/split]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh god, get a life.

Quoted for the new thread.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Looking at the Jesse Hughes stuff. He just had to throw in random homophobia/bigtory.

 

[Dr.]

Posted in the previous/now locked thread:



*

Snopes rating: X - FALSE

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/david-hogg-on-campus-rumor-hoax/

 

[Thundercrack85]

You can tell the right is taking this seriously by how much they are trying to smear these kids.

 

[Sithborg]

They are terrified in that it hasn't died down yet.

 

[Lighthouse]

They are terrified in that it hasn't died down yet.

I have to admit that even I'm surprised it hasn't died down. That's been the case for so long, but this instance something has snapped. 'Bout damn time too. I thought after Sandy Hook nothing would ever happen.

 

[Herofan]

I have to admit that even I'm surprised it hasn't died down. That's been the case for so long, but this instance something has snapped. 'Bout damn time too.

We've also had protests, youth outrage, movements and a lot of demanding for illegal immigration amnesty for over a decade and that's just lead to a lot of attitude-hardening and continued stalemate on immigration, we could also see mutual indignation leading to stalemate on guns too. Unless the Democrats win both Congress and the presidency but then they could still decide to do something else instead until they lose a branch of government.

Edit: Frankly, it should be pretty hard and controversial to restrict a right that is by protected by the Constitution. Enforcing existing laws better is an obvious, less controversial response to them not being effective enough currently, I think making places like schools safer with detectors and/or requiring clear backpacks also makes a lot of sense.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The NRA is the main reason the existing weak gun laws aren't enforced.

Republicans have shown that they will not act in good faith.

 

[Mike5575]

I don't agree with a lot David Hogg has said, but people need to stop this nonsense.

 

[Mike5575]

The NRA is the main reason the existing weak gun laws aren't enforced.

Republicans have shown that they will not act in good faith.

How is this the NRA's fault??? This was a failure of law enforcement on every level. The Youth Promise Act, passed by democrats is part of the reason why the Broward County Sheriff department failed to act. They say "see something, say something." Well, people said a lot and nothing happened. And the solution is to chip away at the freedoms of law abiding citizens? This is why gun control fails.

Here is Jake Tapper interviewing Sheriff Scott Israel, grilling him on his incompetence and failure to act:

[YT]GfGJ_SRcBSE[/YT]

Edit: As far as Republicans failing to act, here's Senator Marco Rubio introducing legislation to keep our schools safe:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/376270-rubio-announces-school-safety-background-check-plan-after-florida-shooting

 

[Thundercrack85]

The NRA is a cancer.

I'm not going to explain how the NRA weakens existing gun laws and makes the ATF toothless. Read about it here:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/never-mind-new-guns-lawsthe-nra-keeps-weakening-the-existing-ones

The 2nd Amendment was never meant to be a suicide pact.

Rubio is a joke. His proposals are a joke.

 

[childeroland]

Well, it wouldn't be such a problem if these kids just learned CPR instead of promoting phony gun laws.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Does anyone take Marco Rubio seriously? He is such a clear piece of work.

 

[Sithborg]

I respect that he actually seems to be well intentioned on serving all of Florida.

But he clearly is not cut out for national politics.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I respect that he actually seems to be well intentioned on serving all of Florida.

But he clearly is not cut out for national politics.

Yeah, I completely disagree with that. I saw the town hall. That was rather informative. His concern is his donors, including the NRA.

 

[Sithborg]

Eh, it is always fascinating watching an invertebrae grow a spine.

 

[squeekness]

The NRA is the main reason the existing weak gun laws aren't enforced.

Republicans have shown that they will not act in good faith.

They are ruled by the all mighty dollar.

 

[Aximili86]

Wow, that new Glenn Greenwald stuff on the Orlando/Pulse shooting is pretty interesting.

Turns out that "he was probably a self-loathing gay guy", "he'd been spotted hanging out in gay clubs" assertion from a lot of outlets at the time was bull****. He'd never been there, and found the Pulse club quite randomly with a google search of Orlando nightclubs.

Sounds like the stuff about his wife helping him scope it all out was inaccurate too.

Basically "just another ISIS sympathizer guy after all", coming from The Guardian of all places.

 

[Donner]

He shouldn't have been able to buy the weapons that he did. Along with Nikolas Cruz, Dylan Roof, etc etc.

 

[Krystal]

Those kids can tear up targets all they want, but they have one on their back waiting for one of these psychos to act on.

If I was a parent of one of those kids I'm not sure I'd let them become well known for wanting gun reform.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I am sure they are aware of that.

Those kids have more guts than the entire US congress put together. Not to mention that disgrace in the White House.

 

[Donner]

Ah yes. Fear. Like Americans need more of that.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

For anyone that contends the NRA doesn't have a role in the inability to prevent some of these mass shootings, you really need to look into some of the crap their lobby pulls and how they get ATF to operate like it's still the 1970's:

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/02/atf-gun-laws-nra/

If you want an agency to be small and ineffective at what it does, the ATF is really the model,” says Robert J. Spitzer, author of The Politics of Gun Control. Spitzer, a political science professor at the State University of New York College at Cortland, says the ATF’s critics, in particular the National Rifle Association (NRA), have been “extremely successful at demonizing, belittling and hemming in the ATF as a government regulatory agency.” The result, he says, is an agency with insufficient staff and resources, whose agents are “hamstrung” by laws and rules that make it difficult or impossible to fulfill their mission.

According to Cox, the most important of the ATF riders “is a prohibition on creating or maintaining a database of gun owners or guns,” which the NRA and other gun-rights advocates say could be used by a tyrannical government to confiscate firearms. The rider, which dates back to 1978, was a response to President Carter’s attempt to create a national registry of handguns. A related rider, dating to 1997, bars the government from creating an electronic database of the names of gun purchasers contained in 597 million gun sale records from 700,000 out-of-business dealers. (Those dealers are required by law to turn their records over to the ATF.) In addition, a 1986 law, the Firearm Owners’ Protection Act, explicitly forbids the government from creating a database of gun owners.

Higgins was stoic about the long-standing ban on databases. “Everyone in the agency understood that things that made sense in the modern era—such as automation—just weren’t going to happen.” But Higgins also said that working through mountains of paper and microfiche records is a huge waste of agents’ time and taxpayer money. As a practical matter, the lack of a computerized records system for gun sales means that a crime gun trace that might otherwise be accomplished in a matter of seconds can take up to two weeks.

Basically the ATF can't use ****ing computers because the NRA has lobbied Congress to pass riders on their statute that dooms them to using the equivalent of the dewey decimal system to track gun crimes, usage, sales. etc.

Today, gun sale records are kept at 60,000 separate locations by the nation’s 60,000 federal firearms licensees (FFLs). With a centralized database, an ATF agent in possession of a gun found at a crime scene could simply plug the gun’s serial number into a computer and identify the name of the dealer who sold the weapon, along with the name of the first purchaser. Without a database, agents must often embark on a Rube Goldberg-style odyssey, contacting the gun’s manufacturer or a gun’s importer who will direct the agent either to a middleman who sold the weapon to a dealer or to the dealer himself, who can identify the first buyer