Discussion: Illegal Immigration and Other Citizenship Issues

[BlackLantern]

What a waste of the taxpayers money. It is obviously cheaper to just try and incarcerate those who actually commit warranted crimes in this country. The penalty for illegal entry into this country should be no more severe than a moving violation and should not warrant any shoot to kill orders.

it does if we want it to stop

 

[Schlosser85]

The penalty for illegal entry into this country should be no more severe than a moving violation and should not warrant any shoot to kill orders.

They're intruding illegally.

Cry me a ******* river.

 

[BlackLantern]

Ever stop to consider the fact that the person might have a child with them? or the fact that the person might even be a child? Or maybe the person isn't even illegal? It is extremists like you that cause opponents of amnesty to get labeled hateful and racist.

Not to mention if it's only going to last 30 days, they will just wait 30 days to come over. You should think things through.

doesn't matter....come here illegally, you get shot...

and what type of person is roaming around the US/Mexico border that isn't either a Border Patrol agent or someone trying to sneak in

Ive been down to the border in both California and Arizona, its not hospitable country by any means

 

[dnno1]

it does if we want it to stop

If you came down harder on employers, it would stop. You don't have to kill someone. That is not necessary.

 

[BlackLantern]

but thats not going to happen because those same employers are big campaign contributors who publicly denounce illegal immigrants but hire them because it keeps overheard low

if people want manufacturing, farming and all those jobs back in America, get ready to pay triple

 

[StorminNorman]

What a waste of the taxpayers money. It is obviously cheaper to just try and incarcerate those who actually commit warranted crimes in this country. The penalty for illegal entry into this country should be no more severe than a moving violation and should not warrant any shoot to kill orders.

Then whats the point of immigration laws? A slap on the wrist is suppose to serve as a deterrent to keep people out of the country? That's delusional.

Either open the boarders (which is what I approve of) or have strong laws. Doing either halfassed is the absolute worse situation.

For example: my proposal is that you open the boarders so that anyone who registers with the government gets to work and live in the country. They can apply for citizenship, which would require a naturalization process of 7 years. It would be similar (if not the same) as the current naturalization process where would-be citizens have to learn English and pass American history and government classes. I would push for an economics class to be added and (though I will admit that I have no knowledge of the current system) if I had to guess, I would probably want to reform the government and history classes .
Non-"citizen" immigrants would not have voting privilege, pay more in taxes and are on probation until they earn citizenship. Commit a felony - you are deported.

This solves the security problem posed by the current system. By having a record on all immigrants, it allows the government to swiftly handle the criminal element of that population. Average Jose stays as long as he plays by our rules. It's easier for police to apprehend a parole violator than it is to apprehend an illegal immigrant. This fixes that.

It solves the problem of illegal below minimum wage labor (which far more than a humanitarian problem is an American worker problem as it punishes citizens who have to play by the labor rules) because they would all be in the system.

If you go with a more conservative approach of trying to plug the holes, close off the economic abilities of illegals by attacking businesses who hire illegals and move towards enforcing immigration laws through law enforcement - the solutions to these problems are obvious (if it can work). You remove the illegals, you remove the problem.

Your solution, however, promotes illegal immigration by comparing immigration to a moving violation. While I am sure you support cracking down on business, the reality is that local construction and other small-small businesses will be able to hire illegals under the table without raising the eye of federal government (and since I believe you are against state government presence in immigration matters, thats all they have to worry about). Also black market "employment" is always an option in various ways.

You either allow everyone in (and allow them to earn their deportation) or you scare the hell out of people to keep them out. A middle way is an ineffective way.

 

[dnno1]

Then whats the point of immigration laws? A slap on the wrist is suppose to serve as a deterrent to keep people out of the country? That's delusional.

Either open the boarders (which is what I approve of) or have strong laws. Doing either halfassed is the absolute worse situation.

For example: my proposal is that you open the boarders so that anyone who registers with the government gets to work and live in the country. They can apply for citizenship, which would require a naturalization process of 7 years. It would be similar (if not the same) as the current naturalization process where would-be citizens have to learn English and pass American history and government classes. I would push for an economics class to be added and (though I will admit that I have no knowledge of the current system) if I had to guess, I would probably want to reform the government and history classes .
Non-"citizen" immigrants would not have voting privilege, pay more in taxes and are on probation until they earn citizenship. Commit a felony - you are deported.

This solves the security problem posed by the current system. By having a record on all immigrants, it allows the government to swiftly handle the criminal element of that population. Average Jose stays as long as he plays by our rules. It's easier for police to apprehend a parole violator than it is to apprehend an illegal immigrant. This fixes that.

It solves the problem of illegal below minimum wage labor (which far more than a humanitarian problem is an American worker problem as it punishes citizens who have to play by the labor rules) because they would all be in the system.

If you go with a more conservative approach of trying to plug the holes, close off the economic abilities of illegals by attacking businesses who hire illegals and move towards enforcing immigration laws through law enforcement - the solutions to these problems are obvious (if it can work). You remove the illegals, you remove the problem.

Your solution, however, promotes illegal immigration by comparing immigration to a moving violation. While I am sure you support cracking down on business, the reality is that local construction and other small-small businesses will be able to hire illegals under the table without raising the eye of federal government (and since I believe you are against state government presence in immigration matters, thats all they have to worry about). Also black market "employment" is always an option in various ways.

You either allow everyone in (and allow them to earn their deportation) or you scare the hell out of people to keep them out. A middle way is an ineffective way.

So you are calling a fine for a moving violation a slap on the wrist? If you think about it, if we didn't issue citations for moving violations, there would be a lot more fatal automobile accidents. You trivialze the use of monetary fines as the proper punishment for crime in this country when you say what's the point of immigration laws. It is not like we don't want people immigrating into this country, we just want to have some level of control over it for public healt, safety and (somewhat) national security reasons. Paying a fine would serve the cause by defraying the costs of prosecuting those in violation. It is not a slap on the risk, but rather orders of magnitude smarter than paying someone to kill the violator on site with no way of recovering the expense of doing so.

 

[StorminNorman]

Yes. I am calling a moving violation a slap on the wrist and an insufficient solution to a problem with of the scope of immigration.

Furthermore, this is a case where I am also extremely confident that the overwhelming majority of people side with me.

 

[Darthphere]

I'm calling for an Illegal Immigration Registration Act. You have 6 months starting Monday to register your status in the United States, pay a $500 fine and put in the proper paperwork to start your path to residency or citizenship. A payment plan option would be available for all the costs required. As of Monday, the border is closed. After the 6 month "Amnesty Period" if you're in this country illegally, you will be deported immediately.

I have already unmasked Spider-Man and arrested Superman.

 

[Marx]

I'm calling for an Illegal Immigration Registration Act. You have 6 months starting Monday to register your status in the United States, pay a $500 fine and put in the proper paperwork to start your path to residency or citizenship. A payment plan option would be available for all the costs required. As of Monday, the border is closed. After the 6 month "Amnesty Period" if you're in this country illegally, you will be deported immediately.

I have already unmasked Spider-Man and arrested Superman.

You're a monster!!!!

Spoiler

 

[Darthphere]

Superman is an illegal alien in the literal sense. Ma Kent has been arrested for fraud and forging government documents and has enemy combatant status for hiding a WMD.

 

[dnno1]

Yes. I am calling a moving violation a slap on the wrist and an insufficient solution to a problem with of the scope of immigration.

Furthermore, this is a case where I am also extremely confident that the overwhelming majority of people side with me.

Mob rule never justified anything that isn't just *cough*CaliforniaProp8*cough*.

 

[StorminNorman]

What is unjust about rejecting weak immigration enforcement?

Your comparison is all the more foolish when you consider I am the one essentially advocating open boarders.

 

[Wylie Times]

Still cracks me up how this debate seems to mostly center around "Mexican" illegal immigrants. While they make up the bulk of illegal immigrants in this country they're not the only ones.

 

[Kelly]

Still cracks me up how this debate seems to mostly center around "Mexican" illegal immigrants. While they make up the bulk of illegal immigrants in this country they're not the only ones.

But at the moment, the crime on the border is a massive problem...you don't have this problem of crime on the Canadian border. So of course it would be the center point.

Canada also does a better job of taking care of their side of the border, but I think this should be an all encompassing plan....securing the Mexican border though, has to be in the top 2 things to do, if not #1.

 

[Wylie Times]

But at the moment, the crime on the border is a massive problem...you don't have this problem of crime on the Canadian border. So of course it would be the center point.

Canada also does a better job of taking care of their side of the border, but I think this should be an all encompassing plan....securing the Mexican border though, has to be in the top 2 things to do, if not #1.

Crime on the boarder is less of a problem now than it was a decade ago. It's reported on MUCH more but it's not happening at increased levels as some would have you believe.

I actually forgot about Canada, but there are illegal immigrants that come to our country to overseas also and nobody seems to care about them (unless they're from the middle east).

*edit*

Actually upon further look violent crimes in border cities in Arizona (where I live) have remained the same the past decade and violent crimes statewide have gone down.

Either way it's still a case of people assuming that what's happening across the boarder is spilling over into the U.S.

 

[dnno1]

What is unjust about rejecting weak immigration enforcement?

Your comparison is all the more foolish when you consider I am the one essentially advocating open boarders.

Shooting people on site for illegally crossing the boarder. If people voted for that it would be unjust. What I suggested is the current punishment for illegal entry and is far from as foolish as what you and others are suggesting.

 

[Paradoxium]

Shooting them is not a harsh enough punishment.

Make them watch Smallville t:

 

[dnno1]

Shooting people on site for a crime is unconsitutional since it would be violating their right of due process given to them by the 14th Amendment. It's not going to happen. Lets stop making rediculous comments and stick to more realistic solutions.

 

[StorminNorman]

Shooting people on site for illegally crossing the boarder. If people voted for that it would be unjust. What I suggested is the current punishment for illegal entry and is far from as foolish as what you and others are suggesting.

What is foolish about my proposal?

Still cracks me up how this debate seems to mostly center around "Mexican" illegal immigrants. While they make up the bulk of illegal immigrants in this country they're not the only ones.

My plan works because it makes immigration more accessible for all nations.

If America is the country it is meant to be: the true beacon of liberty (and by extension freedom and capitalism) we will attract, like we once use to, the best the world has to offer. (For example, with the income-tax free benefits of the FairTax)

In my system they won't be red taped out of the country.

 

[BlackLantern]

whats happening now is the best and brightest are getting educated here and then going back home

 

[BlackLantern]

Shooting people on site for a crime is unconsitutional since it would be violating their right of due process given to them by the 14th Amendment. It's not going to happen. Lets stop making rediculous comments and stick to more realistic solutions.

They aren't citizens, therefore they are not protected by our Constitution....far as I'm concerned they are invaders into this country and should be treated as such

 

[StorminNorman]

whats happening now is the best and brightest are getting educated here and then going back home

And the solution to that is to be better. A country that once you live in, you want to be a part of.

 

[Kelly]

Crime on the boarder is less of a problem now than it was a decade ago. It's reported on MUCH more but it's not happening at increased levels as some would have you believe.

I actually forgot about Canada, but there are illegal immigrants that come to our country to overseas also and nobody seems to care about them (unless they're from the middle east).

*edit*

Actually upon further look violent crimes in border cities in Arizona (where I live) have remained the same the past decade and violent crimes statewide have gone down.

Either way it's still a case of people assuming that what's happening across the boarder is spilling over into the U.S.

The crimes are simply different, maybe less in some categories, but very, very different.

 

[A&W]

could somebody answer this question for me? In Arizona had the law gone into effect would immigrants have been in prison with the regular population? And what safeguards were in place to prevent a teenager who looks old for his or her age from being in prison with adult rapists and murderers? I'm hoping for an informed opinion,k preferably accompanied by a link.