Discussion: North Africa & Southwest Asia Regional Issues III

[Kelly]

Nation-State isnt an excuse for being an ash. They are a little country made from land requisitioned from another country of people. In their situation they really shouldnt be testing everyone's patience and tolerance for their dukeebaggery. We might just remember that the world doesnt revolve around the Jews then they will be up **** creek. Nation state or not right now in the present we should hammer their ash for what they were doing to the Ethiopians.

Just to be clear, I know you arent condoning what Yahu said and did. I doubt anyone here would.

That is not exactly correct. It was a group of people on a specific group of land, but not an independent country. That area at the time was a British Mandate.

 

[craigdbfan]

Things are completely spiraling out of control in Egypt right now.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Damn. This is crazy.

APCs, tanks...

 

[Kelly]

Israel is just not ever going to get it. They have begun settling on the 1967 land once again.....I swear, they do crap like this every time the US wants to start talks again. I say, US....get the bad place out and let the Israelis and Palestinians blow each other up, I'm so tired of the childish behavior from these governments.

 

[Victarion]

I think we need let things calm down in Egypt, then talk with whoever rises to the top. But yeah, its insane.

 

[Kelly]

I agree...but I would also pull $$$$ going to Egypt as long as the "government in power" is killing its people.

 

[craigdbfan]

It looks like an asteroid hit the place:

Unbelievable.

 

[Compi716]

Looks like the end of Man of Steel.

Seriously though, that is intense. This whole situation is increasingly terrible.

 

[craigdbfan]

Looks like the end of Man of Steel.

Seriously though, that is intense. This whole situation is increasingly terrible.

No kidding.

 

[Cosmic]

Horrible. I think it's time for the US to withdraw financial aid to Egypt.

We also should stop supporting Israel's apartheid regime.

 

[Thundercrack85]

So, drop all leverage it has with both sides? That's a great idea.

 

[Kelly]

Leverage for what? to do what? to expect what?

 

[Cosmic]

What leverage do we have in Egypt now? They just warned the military not to slaughter people, and they did it anyway. It will get worse. The line was drawn, crossed, and now there must be lasting consequences.

As for Israel, it seems to me that the leverage is theirs to use against us, almost to dictate our foreign policy in the region to us. It's time for a change.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Long term regional stability. A few revolutions / coups is one thing, a 21st century Arab-Israeli War is another. The US needs to treat with whoever is in power.

The main reason the Israelis have the influence they have is because of their lobbying, and evangelical Zionists. Plus, widespread support for Israel with the general population. It's hard for Americans to get behind Palestine, given its sentiment (you'll recall 9/11 celebrations).

 

[craigdbfan]

I won't ever support any country or extreme version of any given religion imposed on people that subjugates women into submissive roles where abuse is common place and freethinking and advancement of any kind is stunted.

While Israel could do more to establish peace in the region I do applaud them for trying to set up a free society where women and children aren't abused like it's no ones business.

 

[The Overlord]

That is not exactly correct. It was a group of people on a specific group of land, but not an independent country. That area at the time was a British Mandate.

But does that matter? There were no real independent countries before the Europeans craved up Africa for their own purposes, but I doubt most people would say that justifies what the Europeans did in Africa in the colonial age.

 

[Feenix]

Israel is just not ever going to get it. They have begun settling on the 1967 land once again.....I swear, they do crap like this every time the US wants to start talks again. I say, US....get the bad place out and let the Israelis and Palestinians blow each other up, I'm so tired of the childish behavior from these governments.

Hear hear! It seems like they're not interested in any kind of discussion, they just want to eliminate the other party. It's hard to reason with mentalities like that.

 

[Just_Human]

While Israel could do more to establish peace in the region I do applaud them for trying to set up a free society where women and children aren't abused like it's no ones business.

Israel and free in the same sentence

 

[craigdbfan]

Much more free than any of the neighboring countries.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Apartheid is not freedom.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Palestinians get better treatment in Israel than they do in most of the neighboring countries.

Not to say there aren't serious issues, but keep perspective.

A majority of Palestinians don't want Israel to exist. What exactly happens to the Israelis in that plan... is best left unspoken.

 

[Destructus86]

I won't ever support any country or extreme version of any given religion imposed on people that subjugates women into submissive roles where abuse is common place and freethinking and advancement of any kind is stunted.

While Israel could do more to establish peace in the region I do applaud them for trying to set up a free society where women and children aren't abused like it's no ones business.

You just described every true Muslim everywhere

 

[Victarion]

Apartheid is not freedom.

Freedom from discrimination based on sex or sexual preference is better than nothing at all.

 

[Kelly]

But does that matter? There were no real independent countries before the Europeans craved up Africa for their own purposes, but I doubt most people would say that justifies what the Europeans did in Africa in the colonial age.

As far as International Law? Yes, most was taken by armed conflict.

As far as the "Scramble for Africa", totally different, and most of the conflicts you have in Africa today, stem back to the "Scramble For Africa" unfortunately.

As far as the Israelis and Palestinians, neither wants to give ANYTHING, and that is the problem.

 

[The Overlord]

As far as International Law? Yes, most was taken by armed conflict.

As far as the "Scramble for Africa", totally different, and most of the conflicts you have in Africa today, stem back to the "Scramble For Africa" unfortunately.

As far as the Israelis and Palestinians, neither wants to give ANYTHING, and that is the problem.

Except the idea of "we have a country and these people don't, so their rights don't count" has been a very destructive one, often justifying actions that caused untold death and misery through out the years. I think the idea that Israel is a legitimate state and the Palestinians are not because they lost a conflict in 1948 and another 1967, makes the Palestinians more likely to use violence rather then seek peace, because it just reinforces the idea that winning a conflict is the best way to achieve statehood, so frankly I think we have to rethink our logic here.

This why I don't like this logic, not only has it caused suffering in the past, but it encourages people to solve their problems through violence in the present.