Discussion: North Africa & Southwest Asia Regional Issues III

[Kelly]

Except the idea of "we have a country and these people don't, so their rights don't count" has been a very destructive one, often justifying actions that caused untold death and misery through out the years. I think the idea that Israel is a legitimate state and the Palestinians are not because they lost a conflict in 1948 and another 1967, makes the Palestinians more likely to use violence rather then seek peace, because it just reinforces the idea that winning a conflict is the best way to achieve statehood, so frankly I think we have to rethink our logic here.

This why I don't like this logic, not only has it caused suffering in the past, but it encourages people to solve their problems through violence in the present.

Hey, I was just giving the reasoning behind the legalities of all of this. I happen to think that the Palestinian PEOPLE, not Hamas, but the people are under an Apartheid rule....and it is Hamas and their desire to promote their philosophy rather than promote the welfare of their own people, ALONG WITH the Israeli government keeps true and longlasting peace in this region.

 

[Thundercrack85]

While I have plenty of issues with Israel, I do think people are underplaying the Palestinian's words and actions.

Again, most Palestinians don't recognize Israel's right to exist. Or the Israeli's for that matter. Palestinian leaders regularly deny the holocaust, and use genocidal rhetoric. Palestinians freely elected Hamas, a terrorist organization.

You can't exactly expect the Israelis to tear down every wall (literally), when half the people (or more depending on the poll) on the other side wants to wipe them out. That was never the case in South Africa.

 

[Kelly]

While I have plenty of issues with Israel, I do think people are underplaying the Palestinian's words and actions.

Again, most Palestinians don't recognize Israel's right to exist. Or the Israeli's for that matter. Palestinian leaders regularly deny the holocaust, and use genocidal rhetoric. Palestinians freely elected Hamas, a terrorist organization.

You can't exactly expect the Israelis to tear down every wall (literally), when half the people (or more depending on the poll) on the other side wants to wipe them out. That was never the case in South Africa.

Which is why I differentiated between "Hamas" and the "Palestinian People".... it is Hamas that is putting their launchers in the middle of neighborhoods that they should be protecting. It is Hamas (Palestinian leaders) that regularly deny the holocaust, and use genocidal rhetoric. As far as the "people" electing Hamas.....people elect those that "give them the most"...hell, we do that in this country. In Colombia you try and get the people to turn in cartel members and leaders, they won't...why? because that is the group that "helps" them the most.

When you are poor, uneducated, and in need of basic things to live, you will vote for those that can "take care of you"...it happens all over the world. Happens in most less developed countries, which is why they continue to be less developed. Stupid yes, reality....yes.

 

[Destructus86]

While I have plenty of issues with Israel, I do think people are underplaying the Palestinian's words and actions.

Again, most Palestinians don't recognize Israel's right to exist. Or the Israeli's for that matter. Palestinian leaders regularly deny the holocaust, and use genocidal rhetoric. Palestinians freely elected Hamas, a terrorist organization.

You can't exactly expect the Israelis to tear down every wall (literally), when half the people (or more depending on the poll) on the other side wants to wipe them out. That was never the case in South Africa.

Both sides want to commit genocide against the other...I don't think we should support either. All though if I had to pick one or the other for an ally, i'd take Israel simply because they are MUCH less violatile.