🇺🇸 Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 3

[mclay18]

Progressive outlets have been ecstatic over this result. So, will Cynthia Nixon be next to come up with a win over Andrew Cuomo?

If you'd asked me before Cortez's win, I would've said Cynthia had a long shot. But now? Definitely possible. If she canvasses and gets involved (like town halls and such), she can be the next NY mayor.

 

[Aximili86]

C'mon, Cynthia's not going to win governor. That's a whole other thing to winning a congressional primary.

Especially given she's up against such a tough opponent as Cuomo.

 

[Fading]

I saw where one senate hopeful said if she's elected, she'll ask for the removale of Chuck Schumer from leadership. I think I'm actually ok with that. Schumer, and Pelosi are weak leaders. Democrats should have so much fire behind them right now. Inbetween Trump, the supreme court picks, midterms, the immigration scandals, ect. Yet, where's the leadership? Most of the momentum for democrats is coming from average citizens protesting, calling their congressmen, voicing anger at town halls, or from people just rising up, and running in districts the democrats gave up on.

A change up in the democrat leadership could be a good thing, because the current system they have going isn't working. They've been handed a surefire set of wins, and are too afraid to even take a shot. Even if they win a lot of seats in the midterms, what's the point if they continue to allow themselves to be walked over?

 

[Sithborg]

Pelosi is fine for house leadership. Schumer has issues, though I wonder how much of it is just because he gets outmaneuvered by McConnell.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Chuck for anything anyone might say is crafty. Pelosi? I think at this point she is a drag on the entire party and she hasn't been effective in the leadership position she has had for sone time. I am far from a "turn it all over to the Bernie Bros." type but fresh eyes and ears in leadership is what is needed, at least compared to Pelosi.

 

[Aximili86]

They just took a shot at replacing Pelosi not so long ago, she still had a majority. Doubt it's any different now.

Quite a few of the moderates are p*ssing themselves over being linked to her in the midterms though, so there's dissent against her from both the sanes and the uber-lefties. But the lion's share is still with her, she won't go.

 

[Sithborg]

Pelosi runs her caucus better than Ryan or McConnell, that's for sure. Schumer's only real advantage is that he is from the NY social circles that Trump desperately wants to be a part of.

 

[Kelly]

They just took a shot at replacing Pelosi not so long ago, she still had a majority. Doubt it's any different now.

Quite a few of the moderates are p*ssing themselves over being linked to her in the midterms though, so there's dissent against her from both the sanes and the uber-lefties. But the lion's share is still with her, she won't go.

She is too damn good at raising money for her to not get the majority in any kind of leadership role vote. She is one of the best at money raising.

 

[MaceB]

And she gets the votes. The lady knows how to raise money and wrangle people.

But her policies and her rhetoric are establishment Democrat, not progressive. She's one of those who believes that being too progressive is a bad thing.

 

[Aximili86]

And yet the establishment Dems are in full panic-mode about being linked to her in GOP ads in the midterms.

It's the money, more than the votes.

And Pelosi's only "establishment traditional Democrat" on the spectrum by 2018 standards. She's still further left than a Bill Clinton or equivalent.

 

[Sithborg]

Really? Because I think it comes down to the race.

 

[MaceB]

And yet the establishment Dems are in full panic-mode about being linked to her in GOP ads in the midterms.

It's the money, more than the votes.

And Pelosi's only "establishment traditional Democrat" on the spectrum by 2018 standards. She's still further left than a Bill Clinton or equivalent.

Dems aren't panicking... they're debating, there's a difference. Pelosi has done nothing overly radical to warrant whatever conservative nonsense is being spewed about her.

She might be further left than Bill Clinton slightly, but not by much. She's pretty establishment all the way down.

Conservatives like to pretend that she's Satan because she's an effective and talented woman, but other than that, she's pretty boilerplate. 2018 standards, lol... yeah, we're getting so liberal. We're the radical ones. Right...

 

[Ouch]

Dems aren't panicking... they're debating, there's a difference. Pelosi has done nothing overly radical to warrant whatever conservative nonsense is being spewed about her.

She might be further left than Bill Clinton slightly, but not by much. She's pretty establishment all the way down.

Conservatives like to pretend that she's Satan because she's an effective and talented woman, but other than that, she's pretty boilerplate. 2018 standards, lol... yeah, we're getting so liberal. We're the radical ones. Right...

It wouldn't matter who the Democratic leader was in the House, of course the Republicans would want to portray them as if they were the devil incarnate. Trying to get along with the reactionary far right is stupid.

 

[MaceB]

It wouldn't matter who the Democratic leader was in the House, of course the Republicans would want to portray them as if they were the devil incarnate. Trying to get along with the reactionary far right is stupid.

100% correct. And liberals fall right into it. We want to appease conservatives so much, that we've allowed this zombie lie that Nancy Pelosi is a San Francisco puritanical liberal to fester. The truth is - no - if you want to see what a truly proud progressive looks like, I can show you. Franken, Harris, Warren, Booker, Gillibrand, Merkley, Baldwin.... all examples of more progressive politicians than Pelosi. The truth is that Nancy's base and her colleagues are a lot more liberal than she is... she's a moderate establishmentarian, and she still gets undermined as a crazy liberal.

 

[squeekness]

100% correct. And liberals fall right into it. We want to appease conservatives so much, that we've allowed this zombie lie that Nancy Pelosi is a San Francisco puritanical liberal to fester. The truth is - no - if you want to see what a truly proud progressive looks like, I can show you. Franken, Harris, Warren, Booker, Gillibrand, Merkley, Baldwin.... all examples of more progressive politicians than Pelosi. The truth is that Nancy's base and her colleagues are a lot more liberal than she is... she's a moderate establishmentarian, and she still gets undermined as a crazy liberal.

Just read this same opinion in the most recent Rolling Stone. She's a strong woman, though. She said that if a Democrat wants to distance themselves from her to win their seat she's fine with it, just so long as they win. I had to admire her some for that.

 

[AvengerPA]

I think it would be good for the Democrats if Roe v. Wade was repealed. Abortion should only be legal when the Democrats control the legislature. States that ban abortions will turn blue as result. The Democrats would win more often if women actually suffered the consequences of Republican anti-abortion rhetoric.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

Women already are suffering though.

 

[Holiday]

I think it would be good for the Democrats if Roe v. Wade was repealed. Abortion should only be legal when the Democrats control the legislature. States that ban abortions will turn blue as result. The Democrats would win more often if women actually suffered the consequences of Republican anti-abortion rhetoric.

This reminds me of Bill Maher stating he wished for economic downturn in America to get rid of President Trump.

 

[Aximili86]

Pretty much.

Roe V.S. Wade is never getting overturned anyway, that's all the usual hysteria noise. No conservative on the court is going to vote to do it, even if they're personally against abortion, as it's just going to be a huge social cluster****. That wouldn't be protests every-other week like now, that'd be full-on 60s riots and bombings of government buildings.

Scare-tactic bull**** at its most effective, everyone's up in arms about a supreme court pick being the death of abortion legality. Kavanaugh doesn't even seem like one of the hardcore intense pro-life guys in the first place, more mild on the issue - even if he was though, you're not getting a consensus on that in a court vote.

 

[Silvermoth]

I would definitely warn against the idea that the system would just magically clean itself and things can never get bad. I assure you many times people have said “the politicians can’t get away with that” and then they did.

And there are definitely people working towards overturning roe versus wade. I would definitely not give them the opportunity

 

[Sithborg]

Directly, no. But they are going to chip, chip, and chip away at it.

 

[SV Fan]

And yet the establishment Dems are in full panic-mode about being linked to her in GOP ads in the midterms.

It's the money, more than the votes.

And Pelosi's only "establishment traditional Democrat" on the spectrum by 2018 standards. She's still further left than a Bill Clinton or equivalent.

Personally I blame Democrats for not defending her out of fear, simple fact is you have 2 options when you get attacked being linked to Pelosi. You either go to your corner and huddle up hoping the issue goes away or you double down on it.

If you believe avoiding the issue is the way to go then you already lost. If you decide to double down on Pelosi or whatever the issue is(Obamacare for instance) I do think their is a certain portion of the population that isn't super polarized that can respect that and view you actually having an opinion or conviction on a topic as a good thing. Beyond that if you can start making Pelosi an even bigger issue you just know Republicans will slip up making Pelosi somewhat sympathetic. Anytime you let your opponent dictate the narrative without fighting back you basically lose a certain level of respect

 

[Aximili86]

Or, you know, they genuinely think she's more representative of the wealthy Frisco guys than their own more mid-ground Democrats. What a crazy notion! How dare they?

Looks like Manchin's voting pro-Kavanaugh for the court, too, supposedly saying Schumer can "kiss my ass". He won't be the only one, you'll probably get another two or so. The two Republicans that are on the fence can vote in opposition if they want, it won't matter with the confirmation.

 

[Fading]

Personally I blame Democrats for not defending her out of fear, simple fact is you have 2 options when you get attacked being linked to Pelosi. You either go to your corner and huddle up hoping the issue goes away or you double down on it.

If you believe avoiding the issue is the way to go then you already lost. If you decide to double down on Pelosi or whatever the issue is(Obamacare for instance) I do think their is a certain portion of the population that isn't super polarized that can respect that and view you actually having an opinion or conviction on a topic as a good thing. Beyond that if you can start making Pelosi an even bigger issue you just know Republicans will slip up making Pelosi somewhat sympathetic. Anytime you let your opponent dictate the narrative without fighting back you basically lose a certain level of respect

Speaking of which, I'll have to look up the video later, but there's a democrat running in s red state running an ad thanking Trump. Then Trump turned around, and bashed that democrat.

Democrats ideals are popular, same as conservative ideals. On many issues, or elections we're split nearly 50/50 as a country. With some left leaning ideals like on healthcare, or legalization of weed getting 70-90% support. Yet so many democrats are afraid to run on what they actually believe in.

That's why I think it's so great that people started running in states democrats had given up on. Then winning said states based on left leaning ideals. It shows democrats don't have to run from themselves to win.

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah, that was always a big fallacy of the Dems, depending solely on their strongholds.