Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

[Paradoxium]

It's not big enough. It'll just cover interest rates. But it's a better start than $850 billion....maybe if the GOP House didn't walk away from $4 trillion (a real start) almost two weeks ago, $850 billion and an economic meltdown or $2.2 trillion and a can kick wouldn't be the choices....

850 is crap but 200 billion is more crap. A downgrade will nullify half of 200 billion in one year

 

[dnno1]

I just don't get it...

We are spending 4.1 billion A FREAKING DAY...and they are talking about 2 trillion over 5 years? SERIOUSLY? And they think that is big cuts.....SERIOUSLY?

And please no one post...."At least that's a start"....because I swear blood will shoot out of my eyes.

Waits for Dox to say it, just to see my head spin....*sighs*

You realize that it would mean instead of spending 7.5 trillion over what you were taking in in that 5 year period you are only spending 5.5 trillion. That's almost a 30% cut in deficit spending. If the Bush tax cuts expired you might get that number over 30% over the 5 year period.

 

[Paradoxium]

in the event no ceiling is raised....

This could workout.

 

[Paradoxium]

Fun fact of the moment.

Apple has more cash than the United States of America government.

How lulzzz is that t:

 

[Paradoxium]

Wonder zerohedge article:

Still, the mainstream media and the performing puppet politicians need to create a fearful frenzy among the masses to insure maximum public relations exposure for their lies, misinformation, and mistruths. Wall Street will exert their control over the debate by threatening to crash the market if they don’t get what they want (aka TARP). I generally ignore the talking heads on Fox, MSNBC, CNN, and CNBC, as I could learn more from watching Cash Cab than listening to ideologues spouting their talking points. But, last night I happened to see an hour or so of Fox, CNN and MSNBC. I saw the full spectrum of right wing and left wing rhetoric and fear mongering. These stations should be ashamed to call themselves news organizations. They do not even purport to report the news. They spew talking points generated by the left and right, depending on the station’s bias. Truth is unavailable on the mainstream media.

Republican Talking Points

• We refuse to increase taxes on all Americans to fix a spending problem.
• Spending has been out of control since Obama took control of the White House (reference $800 billion stimulus package, home buyer tax credit, and Obamacare).
• Say that Obama doesn’t have a plan and mention his ten year budget.
• Tell the American people Republicans are fiscally responsible and the real party of change.
• The people told them to change Washington with the 2010 election.

Democratic Talking Points

• The Tea Party EXTREMISTS have hijacked the Republican Party and want to destroy the country by forcing the country to default on its debt.
• The Bush tax cuts and the Bush wars are to blame for the entire increase in debt and deficits.
• The Republicans want to protect the richest Americans while cutting Medicare and Social Security benefits for the poor.
• The Democratic Party will never cut Medicare or Social Security.
• The Democrats are willing to compromise and act like adults, while the evil Republicans resist all offers to strike a deal.

Depending on your ideology, you will find yourself agreeing with the talking points that strike your fancy. Don’t worry; they’ve all been tested on sample groups of ignorant Americans in order to strike the right nerve. As I listened to that bald headed prick – James Carville – screeching on CNN last night about Bush’s wars and tax cuts causing our economic peril today, I wanted to reach into the TV screen and throttle the weasel faced demagogue. The National Debt on the day Bush took office was $5.7 trillion. On the day he left office the National Debt was $10.6 trillion, a $4.9 trillion increase in eight years. Today, the National Debt stands at $14.4 trillion, a $3.8 trillion increase in two and a half years. That sounds bipartisan to me.

Bush certainly did get the U.S. into two wars of choice and his tax cuts, tax rebate checks and expansion of Medicare have contributed trillions to our deficits. He deserves scorn and contempt. But, I do recall that Democrats supported the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. I do recall that Democrats voted for the tax cuts. I do recall that Democrats were gaga about expansion of the Medicare program. A funny thing didn’t happen when Obama was elected. Defense spending did not go down. He increased spending on our war machine. His war budgets put Bush’s to shame. He doubled the war effort in Afghanistan. He upped the ante from two wars to three wars in Libya. The difference between most Bush and Obama policies has been indecipherable.
Carville’s shrill diatribe against the Tea Party freshman in Congress was the most humorous piece of misinformation of his entire rant. He inadvertently struck upon the most revealing point of this entire debt ceiling farce. He said:

“These Tea Party congressmen act as if they don’t care if they are re-elected in 2012.”

And there you have it. These people are not doing what is in their own best interest to get re-elected. They have shocked the vested interests in Washington by sticking to their principles and not playing the games that left the country bankrupt. This is an outrage to non-principled shills like Carville and Rove. This behavior is declared EXTREMIST by the liberal pundits and self interested Washington hacks. People acting in the long- term best interests of the country are seen as EXTREME by neo-cons like Charles Krauthammer and moderate RINOs like John “Crash” McCain. The entrenched Washington ruling class is uncomfortable with any change. The establishment would prefer to lie to the American public again and let future generations worry about the $100 trillion unfunded obligations they’ve created.

Only in America would people trying to balance the national budget be branded extremists. Is the average American who spends less than they make an extremist? In the eyes of Washington politicians and mainstream media talking heads, you would be an extremist. Let’s peruse some facts and judge who the extremists are:

• Federal government spending has risen from $1.9 trillion in 2001 to $3.8 trillion in 2011, a 100% increase. Federal government revenues grew from $2.0 trillion in 2001 to $2.5 trillion in 2008, before collapsing to $2.2 trillion today. GDP over this same time frame has grown 47%.
• The annual Federal budget deficit in 2007 was $160 billion. Annual deficits between 2002 and 2008 ranged between 1% and 4% of GDP. Since 2009, annual budget deficits have exceeded $1.1 trillion and will continue to exceed $1 trillion as far as the eye can see. Annual deficits now exceed 10% of GDP.
• The Federal government spends in excess of $1.2 trillion per year on the cost of present and past wars, or 55% of all tax revenues.
• With a gun to their head from Wall Street banks, Congress handed over $700 billion of taxpayer money to the criminal banks that had just crashed the worldwide economic system with their casino gambling. These banks have been getting free money from the Federal Reserve since 2008 and have rewarded themselves with in excess of $70 billion in bonuses since 2008.
• Obama handed $800 billion of pork to his constituents across the country in order to create 3.5 million jobs. The $800 billion is gone and we’re still waiting for the jobs.
• The home buyer tax credit scheme cost Americans $22 billion, or $100,000 per additional home sold, and home prices are now 5% lower than they were before this worthless Keynesian scam. And prices continue to fall.
• The Cash for Clunkers debacle cost Americans $3 billion, or $24,000 per junked car, as a payoff to Government Owned Motors and Obama’s union backers.
• The taxpayer bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac has cost Americans $160 billion so far, with at least another $150 billion to go.
• The Federal Reserve tripled their balance sheet to $2.7 trillion and is now leveraged 55 to 1, twice the leverage of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers when they failed. A 2% decline in the value of their assets wipes out their capital.
• The government and Federal Reserve threatened the FASB into changing the accounting rules so the Too Big To Fail Wall Street banks could fraudulently report the value of the assets on their books, to appear solvent.
• Obamacare will add 30 million people to the government controlled healthcare system, while adding mountains of new bureaucracy, and trillions of added costs.
• And last but not least, the country goes $4 billion further into debt every day. Or for further perspective: $166 million per hour; $2.8 million per minute; $46,000 per second.

These are the facts of our current economic situation and the liberal mainstream media and slimy politicians like Chuck “I Love Wall Street” Schumer brand the Tea Party congressmen as EXTREMISTS for demanding an end to this out of control Roman orgy of spending. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so utterly disgusting and sad. The only serious proposal to reverse our course and steer away from the approaching iceberg was made by Tom Coburn a couple weeks ago. It was scorned by the ideologues on both sides of the aisle, as it slashed military spending, closed corporate and individual tax loopholes, ended subsidies, and really addressed Medicare and Social Security rather than changing the CPI index. It was DOA and so is this country.

 

[dnno1]

in the event no ceiling is raised....

This could workout.

You would be asking for a law suit from anyone who contractually should be paid. I don't think that would work.

 

[Paradoxium]

Then I suppose no one getting paid is the other option. If that's what you fancy. Your and extremist who wants to default the country totally! And kill seniors!

 

[mikey1974]

so.....i read about this every day ,and see it on the news constantly....

The Republicans are right, they know what's best...
The Democrats are right, the GOP are being hard-asses...
The President is right, but can't do anything....
The Tea Party is right,all the other politicians are wrong...

as a 37-year old male,with a full-time job for almost 20 years, married (wife also has a full time job),3 kids (oldest is in college),a mortgage,a car payment, a dog,a cat,and a partridge in a pear tree...

can SOMEBODY tell me what the hell is going on?! because it seems that EVERYONE is right,yet EVERYONE is also wrong, EVERYTHING is truth, EVERYTHING is fear-mongering,depending on who you want to listen to....

 

[redfirebird2008]

Apple has more cash on their books than the U.S. Treasury. Our government is an embarrassment.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/07/29/apple.cash.government/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

[wiegeabo]

Interesting little piece I just read

3 ways Obama could bypass Congress

I doubt the first two, while technically possible, are being considered. They're mostly just a fun little exercise in exploiting loopholes.

The 3rd option, invoking the 14th amendment, if it works out, could make Obama a hero in the voter's eyes. And even if congress impeached, the Senate wouldn't convict. Thus giving Obama time to fight over future appropriations and figuring out how to get spending under control. Of course, it would rely on things going just right, like how the bond markets would treat the new debt.

 

[Paradoxium]

There is one more method that would work legally.

Mint a 1 trillion dollar platinum coin.

LET’S END THIS DEBT CEILING DEBATE WITH A $1 OZ. $1T COIN

“No, Tsy isn’t authorized to just “print” money, the Federal Reserve Act gives that power to the Fed, However, the Coinage Act grants the Secretary of the Treasury rather broad coin seigniorage authority. Geithner could sidestep the debt ceiling this afternoon by ordering the West Point Mint to coin a 1 oz. $ 1 trillion coin. Tsy can then present the jumbo coins at the NY Fed to buy back $1 trillion in Fed-held debt (the Fed has to accept it, a creditor can’t refuse legal tender paid in to settle a debt):

(h) The coins issued under this title shall be legal tender… (k) The Secretary may mint and issue platinum bullion coins and proof platinum coins in accordance with such specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary’s discretion, may prescribe from time to time.”

 

[StorminNorman]

There is one more method that would work legally.

Mint a 1 trillion dollar platinum coin.

LET’S END THIS DEBT CEILING DEBATE WITH A $1 OZ. $1T COIN

I just sent this to my DMP friends.

 

[wiegeabo]

I posted that idea first with my article!

 

[redhawk23]

What would be on a 1 trillion dollar coin?

 

[Paradoxium]

I posted the original source of the idea

 

[Paradoxium]

What would be on a 1 trillion dollar coin?

 

[Paradoxium]

I just sent this to my DMP friends.

DMP

 

[Paradoxium]

So crazy it just might work: The trillion-dollar coin solution
Economist

To prevent the money from contributing to too rapid inflation, the Fed could simply conduct reverse QE—sell some of its enormous stock of government debt to absorb some of the new money in the system.

 

[StorminNorman]

DMP

Domestic Monetary Policy Subcommittee

 

[chaseter]

Dog Man People

 

[Venom'sDad]

Apple has more cash on their books than the U.S. Treasury. Our government is an embarrassment.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/07/29/apple.cash.government/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I bet you never thought you would see the day, eh?

 

[Donut]

The American people need to look hard at all of these morons & vote most if not all of them out next year

 

[Lighthouse]

The American people need to look hard at all of these morons & vote most if not all of them out next year

That's easy to say. Who do we vote in?

 

[Marx]

I definitely think a broom needs to be taken into congress...but who would take their place is the question. If it's more of these tea partiers...no thank you.

 

[Paradoxium]

Reboot into Distributed Republics! Socialists can be socialists. Capitalists can be capitalists. Return to monarchy. Modern forms of cameralism. Authoritarian *****ebaggery!

Competing governments. Go meta.