Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party - - - Part 18

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But in fairness, that is, in part, due to gerrymandering. In many districts it is, simply put, pointless to vote. So democrats stay home.

I think that's too difficult to actually quantify and you have to consider that many Republicans that live in a large city are pretty much the same boat. The Gallup poll in 2014 on whether people identified as Republican or Democrat or leaned Republican or Democrat. More leaned/identified as Republican. You also have the case where you have older registered Democrats that are really conservative but grew up always being a Democrat and voted for JFK but tend to vote for Republican candidates now that the party has become so Progressive.
 
How's this for poetic: My sister votes Trump and Republican not because she believes their policies, but because the rednecks she hangs around with spout GOP horse**** day and night and she wants to belong. She's now in full on panic mode over this healthcare bill because she just got pregnant and is terrified she'll lose her coverage, or not be able to afford the coverage, for her baby. It's sad, but I've been warning her for years.
 
So now some ReThuglicans are acting like Obama's non-interference was the height of incompetence.

Trump beat a field of 16 Republicans with hateful rhetoric and inflammatory statements because...

Trump voters filled his rallies and cheered to lock her up because....

Obama could have stood naked in front of them about Russia and they'd swear it was a liberal conspiracy and Trump is a great businessman.
 
Which is pretty much what McConnell told Obama he would do. I am beginning to wonder how much of the leadership is in bed with Russia.
 
So now some ReThuglicans are acting like Obama's non-interference was the height of incompetence.

Trump beat a field of 16 Republicans with hateful rhetoric and inflammatory statements because...

Trump voters filled his rallies and cheered to lock her up because....

Obama could have stood naked in front of them about Russia and they'd swear it was a liberal conspiracy and Trump is a great businessman.

It did occur under Obama and he seemed publicly that he did not really take the threat of Russia seriously during his Presidency.
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He certainly deserves blame here. With Trump in the White House though Putin probably feels he can push the envelope further now given how ineffective and ignorant Trump is.

Which is pretty much what McConnell told Obama he would do. I am beginning to wonder how much of the leadership is in bed with Russia.


Doubtful... http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/15/politics/russia-sanctions-senate-trump/index.html
 
It did occur under Obama and he seemed publicly that he did not really take the threat of Russia seriously during his Presidency.

There's still no evidence any vote totals were altered or changed.

The Republicans wanted Trump. They got Trump.

Putin didn't pick Trump to run. Putin didn't send plants into the crowd. Putin didn't stuff ballots or make Trump nominee.

The Dems have a lot to answer for, but the reason Trump was even in place has nothing to do with Obama. Republicans own it. The reason the dumpster fire Trump could spread was cause the Republican have left the fuel all over their policies and rhetoric.
 
There's still no evidence any vote totals were altered or changed.

The Republicans wanted Trump. They got Trump.

Putin didn't pick Trump to run. Putin didn't send plants into the crowd. Putin didn't stuff ballots or make Trump nominee.

The Dems have a lot to answer for, but the reason Trump was even in place has nothing to do with Obama. Republicans own it. The reason the dumpster fire Trump could spread was cause the Republican have left the fuel all over their policies and rhetoric.


...I never said anything contrary to what you wrote... it's like you are arguing with a completely different post.
 
...I never said anything contrary to what you wrote...

What blame lands on Obama? Russian and the Obama administration were on cold terms cause of Ukraine,Crimea, and Syria.

It's one thing to hold naive views(which he did in 2012) in spite of new facts, it's something else to not change in the face of new facts.



Edit:

Let's not forget this same Republicans love of Putin goes beyond Trump;
http://www.politicususa.com/2014/03/10/republicans-dream-leader-vladimir-putin.html

Republicans, conservative pundits, and evangelical fanatics have lined up behind their prototypical conservative Putin, and contrary to what some may think, it is not solely because they hate President Obama they have spent no small amount of time comparing to the Russian president. This past week Fox News strategic analyst Ralph Peters was effusive in praising Russia he asserted “has a real leader, while our President is incapable and unwilling to lead.” Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani could barely contain his enthusiasm for Putin and said “Putin decides what he wants to do and does it in half a day. He makes a decision and executes it quickly and everybody reacts. That’s what you call a real leader.


These are the people Obama was sounding the alarm to in 2014.
 
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What blame lands on Obama? Russian and the Obama administration were on cold terms cause of Ukraine and Syria.

It's one thing to hold naive views(which he did in 2012) in spite of new facts, it's something else to not change in the face of new facts.

If your naive views cause you to make foreign policy blunders then I don't see how that's an excuse. Trump's naive about pretty much everything, it isn't an excuse. Removing the missile defense shields in Poland and Czech Republic without any concessions from Russia as part of the Russian "reset". In his failure to act after threatening Syria on Chemical Weapons and in his "red line" speech emboldened Russia. They viewed Obama as weak and took advantage. Sanctions were not enough in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. His failure to arm Ukraine again emboldened Putin. Putin has been mucking around in elections forever in Eastern Europe and then under Obama he attempted to interfere in our election and he just sat there and watched it happened. Obama was often paralyzed by the fear of acting because of how something would be perceived. He was afraid it would be perceived as him interfering in the election and instead sat idly by.
 
If your naive views cause you to make foreign policy blunders then I don't see how that's an excuse. Trump's naive about pretty much everything, it isn't an excuse. Removing the missile defense shields in Poland and Czech Republic without any concessions from Russia as part of the Russian "reset". In his failure to act after threatening Syria on Chemical Weapons and in his "red line" speech emboldened Russia. They viewed Obama as weak and took advantage. Sanctions were not enough in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. His failure to arm Ukraine again emboldened Putin. Putin has been mucking around in elections forever in Eastern Europe and then under Obama he attempted to interfere in our election and he just sat there and watched it happened. Obama was often paralyzed by the fear of acting because of how something would be perceived. He was afraid it would be perceived as him interfering in the election and instead sat idly by.
Sorry about the edit.

All that's true and still doesn't account for the Republicans pre-Trump lovefest for Putin.

The Bay of Pigs failure didn't turn Americans into pro-Cuba/Fidel.

Edit:

Let's not forget this same Republicans love of Putin goes beyond Trump;
http://www.politicususa.com/2014/03/10/republicans-dream-leader-vladimir-putin.html

Republicans, conservative pundits, and evangelical fanatics have lined up behind their prototypical conservative Putin, and contrary to what some may think, it is not solely because they hate President Obama they have spent no small amount of time comparing to the Russian president. This past week Fox News strategic analyst Ralph Peters was effusive in praising Russia he asserted “has a real leader, while our President is incapable and unwilling to lead.” Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani could barely contain his enthusiasm for Putin and said “Putin decides what he wants to do and does it in half a day. He makes a decision and executes it quickly and everybody reacts. That’s what you call a real leader.


These are the people Obama was sounding the alarm to in 2014.


The Republicans praise of Putin/Russia's strong arm tactics don't paint a picture of a party backing it's President to fight Russia harder.

The Republicans can't have it both ways. They overreached to bash Obama for every misstep then try and have it now that it was that guys fault for not sounding the alarm for a threat they themselves praised.

This is literally the both who cried wolf scenario made real.
 
Sorry about the edit.

All that's true and still doesn't account for the Republicans pre-Trump lovefest for Putin.

The Bay of Pigs failure didn't turn Americans into pro-Cuba/Fidel.




The Republicans praise of Putin/Russia's strong arm tactics don't paint a picture of a party backing it's President to fight Russia harder.

The Republicans can't have it both ways. They overreached to bash Obama for every misstep then try and have it now that it was that guys fault for not sounding the alarm for a threat they themselves praised.

This is literally the both who cried wolf scenario made real.

The context of that Guiliani quote is saying that Obama isn't doing enough against Putin and Russia. Here is the rest of the conversation

But indecision is no way to get Putin's attention, Giuliani told Cavuto.
"Instead of him pushing us around, we push him around. That's the only thing a bully understands," he said.

Besides, he added, we have a treaty with Ukraine from the early 1990s. The United States promised to protect Ukraine against Russia in exchange for Ukraine's giving up its nuclear weapons when the Soviet Union was dissolved.

"We have a moral obligation to protect them," Giuliani said.

To be honest, I'm really not sure what the heck you are trying to argue here.
 
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The context of that Guiliani quote is saying that Obama isn't doing enough against Putin and Russia. Here is the rest of the conversation

So to denounce Obama actions(rightfully so) you need to praise Putin's leadership? I can find several other Conservatives/Republicans doing the same praise of Putiin's "leadership".



To be honest, I'm really not sure what the heck you are trying to argue here.
...I never said anything contrary to what you wrote... it's like you are arguing with a completely different post.

You are the one who jumped on my statement that wasn't even directed at you? Maybe you confused yourself. What were you arguing? If you didn't understand my original point, why'd you reply?

You asserted Obama didn't take the threat of Russia seriously during his presidency based on a debate from 2012. As if nothing in the 4 years since mattered.

You disagree with his actions or think they are weak. Sure. I can see that. But that he didn't recognize it or grow from what he believed in 2012 is a distortion of fact.




FYI. The point in my original statement you replied to had nothing to do with the video you replied with.

The original point was the Republicans and their constant goal post/excuse changes about Russian interference. They don't want to own Trump.
 
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There's still no evidence any vote totals were altered or changed.

The Republicans wanted Trump. They got Trump.

Putin didn't pick Trump to run. Putin didn't send plants into the crowd. Putin didn't stuff ballots or make Trump nominee.

The Dems have a lot to answer for, but the reason Trump was even in place has nothing to do with Obama. Republicans own it. The reason the dumpster fire Trump could spread was cause the Republican have left the fuel all over their policies and rhetoric.

Folks keep bringing up Russia and the "hacking" as if they compromised our votes and that's how Trump got elected which is not the case.

The issue is a verifiable concerted effort to sway a large swath of unsure voters to either cast the ballot for Trump or decide to stay home because they thought both candidates suck which is exactly what happened.

A LOT of money was and is still being spent funding bogus "news" sites to game Google and other search engines into spreading false administration. This is still going on and being perpetrated by Russia as well as Team Trump.

That's the big issue. There is no feasible way this can be done without big, big money behind it. It's quite hilarious to me that Trump maintains his stance that reputable news outlets are "fake news" because they dare question or challenge him yet he is completely fine with all of the thousands of actual fake BS websites led by InfoWars and Breitbart backing him.
 
Recent reports had them targeting election officials and voter rolls. While not directly changing the vote, that is nearly the next best thing. It is enough to make me really nervous for the mid terms.
 
So to denounce Obama actions(rightfully so) you need to praise Putin's leadership? I can find several other Conservatives/Republicans doing the same praise of Putiin's "leadership".






You are the one who jumped on my statement that wasn't even directed at you? Maybe you confused yourself. What were you arguing? If you didn't understand my original point, why'd you reply?

Really this is what happened you said that Republicans are criticizing Obama for Russian interference and calling him incompetent. I responded by saying that he deserves blame after all it happened during his Presidency. I also said he did not take the threat of Russia seriously during his Presidency and linked a video arguing that Russia is not the number one geopolitical threat. Then you quoted me and that's when I responded "I never said anything contrary to what you wrote.."

You asserted Obama didn't take the threat of Russia seriously during his presidency based on a debate from 2012. As if nothing in the 4 years since mattered.

You disagree with his actions or think they are weak. Sure. I can see that. But that he didn't recognize it or grow from what he believed in 2012 is a distortion of fact.

At that point a lot of the damage was done, the missile defense was removed the Syria red line speech was given. I'm not sure at what point he started to realize Russia was the number one geopolitical foe but it was too late and followed with too much inaction/incompetence. It is not just his failure to act once he found out Russia was attempting to interfere it's all the stuff that came before that leads up to this point where Russia feels there will be little consequence if they attempt to do so. Look at the response from the Obama administration when Sony got hacked.



FYI. The point in my original statement you replied to had nothing to do with the video you replied with.

Yes it did, it showed Obama had view of the world and of Russia that was not correct. This opinion led him to make a series of errors in his dealings with Russia prior to 2012 which emboldened them to push and prod to the point that they were attempting to interfere in our election. Republicans are absolutely correct in blaming Obama.

The original point was the Republicans and their constant goal post/excuse changes about Russian interference. They don't want to own Trump.

They have been pretty consistent saying that Obama hasn't been tough enough on Russia. While they may have argued that Trump won fairly they are concerned with the fact that Russia tried to interfere.
 
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So concerned, that they dropped the tough Russia language from the presidential platform.

Frankly, the cozying up to Russia that many Republicans want to do is disturbing, and not necessarily legislatures. There are still some solid anti Russian sentiment in the party. But not enough to overpower their lust for power. The fact that McConnell slipped a poison pill into the Senate sanction bill to kill it in the House shows that they are all talk.
 
So concerned, that they dropped the tough Russia language from the presidential platform.

Frankly, the cozying up to Russia that many Republicans want to do is disturbing, and not necessarily legislatures. There are still some solid anti Russian sentiment in the party. But not enough to overpower their lust for power. The fact that McConnell slipped a poison pill into the Senate sanction bill to kill it in the House shows that they are all talk.

I still think it passes the House even with the White House lobbying against it. The Trump campaign moved to drop the language from the platform and it is the coziness with Russia that the campaign and those around Trump I find disturbing and why it is being investigated.
 
Really this is what happened you said that Republicans are criticizing Obama for Russian interference and calling him incompetent. I responded by saying that he deserves blame after all it happened during his Presidency. I also said he did not take the threat of Russia seriously during his Presidency and linked a video arguing that Russia is not the number one geopolitical threat. Then you quoted me and that's when I responded "I never said anything contrary to what you wrote.."

If you're going to reply read the entire post. The rest of it made very clear is was about the Republicans and there blasé attitude about the Dems saying anything but now are changing the narrative about what their reactions were to the Russian interference.

Remember how they were still peddling their alternate theories about who was behind the Russian hack as far as still having people like Hannity's insane theories about an inside job. And House Int. Chair Nunes saying it was unfounded, or denying the fact Russia hacked the RNC and didn't use it cause it was to help Trump.

But instead of just owning up to it, they just spin a new story based on whatever revelation they can't deny from the WashPo or the Fake news media ends up with their explanation in a twisted pretzel.

If you want to make an argument about something else fine. But don't highjack someone else's point, splice it apart, then act like I'm making some bizarre argument you started.


At that point a lot of the damage was done, the missile defense was removed the Syria red line speech was given. I'm not sure at what point he started to realize Russia was the number one geopolitical foe but it was too late and followed with too much inaction/incompetence. It is not just his failure to act once he found out Russia was attempting to interfere it's all the stuff that came before that leads up to this point where Russia feels there will be little consequence if they attempt to do so. Look at the response from the Obama administration when Sony got hacked.

Didn't Obama go to Congress and ask for authorization for Syria and get denied?

The Sony hack was a private company and from N. Korea. That's slightly different. Netflix and Disney getting hacked recently doesn't send the highest alert across the government.



Yes it did, it showed Obama had view of the world and of Russia that was not correct. This opinion led him to make a series of errors in his dealings with Russia prior to 2012 which emboldened them to push and prod to the point that they were attempting to interfere in our election. Republicans are absolutely correct in blaming Obama.

Okay. Again I don't think anyone can deny that. But when the DNC and anti-Trump Republicans are telling Congress to investigate cause this is serious and effects are democracy, how is the Republican deflection/denial Obama's fault?



They have been pretty consistent saying that Obama hasn't been tough enough on Russia. While they may have argued that Trump won fairly they are concerned with the fact that Russia tried to interfere.
By denying it and downplaying it? By not admitting the RNC were hacked despite intelligence saying it was.

I'm not saying their weren't Republicans sounding the alarm, but the slowness they marched towards admitting it as a party doesn't really jive with a party concerned with Russia.
 
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I
Didn't Obama go to Congress and ask for authorization for Syria and get denied?

.

No, it never went to a floor vote because Obama and Kerry negotiated a deal between Russia and Syria to turn over their chemical weapon stockpile.
 
So now Tom Cotton is publicly calling for forced regime change in Iran. Because it worked out SO WELL the last time...
 
Yeah, the war hawks on Iran worry me the most.
 
So now Tom Cotton is publicly calling for forced regime change in Iran. Because it worked out SO WELL the last time...

Can you imagine how those thinskinned *****es would react if the Iranian government publicly said POTUS and Congress should be assassinated and deposed by foreign elements...

I'm beyond sick of the U.S. government, particularly the GOP, acting like Iran isn't a completely sovereign nation.
 
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