Discussion: The Second Amendment III

[Kable24]

I think if anything the 94 ban will come back in affect and high cap mags will be banned as well.
They aren't going to take guns. I'm just hoping both sides can come to an equitable agreement.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

The government isn't going to take anyone's guns away or repeal the 2nd amendment. This is the fear of people who think we are one Executive Order away from being Nazi Germany or the Galactic Empire.
The government right now is doing the right thing. They are sitting down with the NRA, Hollywood, Wal-mart (they are the biggest seller of guns in the US) and various other people to get answers to what they think will prevent these shootings.

Agreed.

Especially on the bolded three. They are the ones that need to be at the table. This is not, nor ever has been an issue between the federal government and individuals who own guns, it's about the bigger entities involved.

The thing that bothers me about these discussion, not necessarily here, just how they are generally carried on and portrayed in the media is that basic civics and how Government actually operates is rarely part of the discussion. Most of the paranoid delusions of either side are not only delusional, they are downright impossible for our Government to carry out.

 

[Thundercrack85]

No, they're taking certain guns away.

Not that that will likely do anything to curtail these shootings, since they can be done with a fairly typical semiautomatic handgun just as easily.

But it's a start.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

No, they're taking certain guns away.

Not that that will likely do anything to curtail these shootings, since they can be done with a fairly typical semiautomatic handgun just as easily.

But it's a start.

Well, more than likely whatever is done will be grandfathered in somehow. So most people who own those guns now won't lose them, at least not anytime soon.

 

[Thundercrack85]

No, but when you die, your family can't keep them. They're confiscated.

But this is just the start.

If you have any guns that are on the ever growing list, better bequeath them now.

 

[Spider - Man]

In what context? If we're having a discussion about what it's like to fire a gun, and someone who never fired a gun describes what it's like for his friend to shoot, I'd be a little peeved by that person's point.

I'm talking about owning as in buying. Since you made reference to how difficult it is to buy a gun on the black market, and with your disdain for any attempt to try and speak about something you've never actually done that you must at least own a gun.

Ever bought heroin? Any other drugs besides coke?

 

[Spider-Who?]

That's great, until you actually do it yourself, you still get second hand information. You know only what's been told to you, and if you are on the outside, I promise, it's different. I used to not do drugs, but was around them a lot in college...so what? I didn't know the stuff I knew about them until actually trying them and buying them myself.

I've not talked about what it's like to do certain drugs that I've not done. That would be stupid. I've only talked about buying them, since I have bought and been with and helped people buy all manner of drugs. What do I gain here by lying about something so stupid as this on an internet forum? If I wanted to lie or seem cool here, I'd be talking about how much coke I did. I haven't gone into specifics because, that's not something I feel comfertable mentioning on a public forum. If you have a problem with that, too bad.

If you refer back to my original reply to your comment about the ease of getting drugs, you will see that I was not disagreeing with you, but merely pointing out that it really depends on who you know and where you're located; which, for me, all manner of drugs were quite easy to come by while living in Philadelphia - hell, you didn't even have to make any calls, just take a stroll down South Street late at night and people would offer you them (not that I or anyone I knew ever actually bought from those people; just waaay too shady).

I can already tell from your posts how much misinformation has been fed to you. You reek of the classic "I've never done it, but I knew about it!" kind of response.

Its amusing to see how much nonsense you gleam from so few words people post, and how much you actually miss. If you spent as much time and effort trying to comprehend people's posts as you did trying to inflate your internet ego (how sad), you might actually not argue with every other person.

Actually that would be you. You argue in fantasies you make up in your head, and draw a lot of false equivalencies. That's pretty standard from people with minimal experience.

Fantiasies like how you completely missed the point that Hitler took guns away from the Jews, which is a form of gun control?

Buying one drug is different from buying another. Pot, cocaine, heroine, are all entirely different ballgames.

Yes, and the sky is blue, dogs bark, cats meow, and you once again bore me.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I'm talking about owning as in buying. Since you made reference to how difficult it is to buy a gun on the black market

I never said this. I was making the case that the drug black market is different than the gun black market, which it is, since many drugs can be grown or can be created by individuals with household supplies. Same cannot be said of guns.

You can't plant bullets and grow guns.

and with your disdain for any attempt to try and speak about something you've never actually done that you must at least own a gun.

I've operated guns. But we were talking about drugs not guns.

Ever bought heroin? Any other drugs besides coke?

Yeah, plenty of stuff. 'Shrooms, pills, molly, X, all sorts of stuff.

Now the only thing I'd touch is pot.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Fantiasies like how you completely missed the point that Hitler took guns away from the Jews, which is a form of gun control?

No, the systematic extermination of Jews is not gun control.

We had this dumb discussion back when you tried telling me Astral Projection was a thing.

 

[Hotwire]

Let me put it another way. You say that I said what I did to make his statement look ridiculous. Do you think I even needed to say anything to make some girl getting hit in the head with a falling bullet at who-knows-what odds the basis for saying someone should never fire a warning shot to let a burglar know you have a gun sound ridiculous?

In Dnno's case, no. He's making ridiculous arguments anyway. It's still just a pet peeve. Didn't really mean to make it about you vs. Dnno, just that in general.

 

[Hotwire]

Appears the shooter used a shotgun, not the much feared "assault rifle."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/student-shot-high-school-taft-calif-18181965

And they stopped him without a gun? And no one died?

 

[Webfoot Hero]

And they stopped him without a gun? And no one died?

But it sounds like he was somewhat rational (as much as a school shooter could be) in his thinking. He was there to shoot a particular person(s). Once the teacher and counselor stepped in, it distracted him from his shooting and it allowed cops to stop the situation completely. Also, there is typically an armed guard there but was snowed in and couldn't make it to work.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...te-suspect-talked-into-surrendering-by-staff/

 

[Hotwire]

But it sounds like he was somewhat rational (as much as a school shooter could be) in his thinking. He was there to shoot a particular person(s). Once the teacher and counselor stepped in, it distracted him from his shooting and it allowed cops to stop the situation completely. Also, there is typically an armed guard there but was snowed in and couldn't make it to work.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...te-suspect-talked-into-surrendering-by-staff/

I saw that about the guard. It makes me wonder, did the boy know the guard wasn't going to be there that day? If not, the guard certainly wasn't a deterrent. My main point was that it's been argued in this thread that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun. In this case, the people who stopped him, we're unarmed.

 

[roach]

I would not be surprised if this was a bullying situation...the kid with the shotgun was being picked on and decided enough was enough.

 

[Hotwire]

I would not be surprised if this was a bullying situation...the kid with the shotgun was being picked on and decided enough was enough.

Possible. My brother once told a bully, "It's kids like you that make kids like me bring guns to school."

 

[Destructus86]

Why don't schools have armed guards at entrances with metal detectors and/or x-ray like an airport? NO really....why not?

 

[Kable24]

No, but when you die, your family can't keep them. They're confiscated.

But this is just the start.

If you have any guns that are on the ever growing list, better bequeath them now.

Tell me how the government knows I own any type of rifles? Long guns aren't registered like handguns. For all they know, I bought my AR15's and resold them privately to turn a profit.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Tell me how the government knows I own any type of rifles? Long guns aren't registered like handguns. For all they know, I bought my AR15's and resold them privately to turn a profit.

Well, let's say the law passes. You die. Your kid gets your gun. If they find that gun on your kid, he goes to jail.

Selling would also be illegal. Granted, you might not get caught, but if you do, jail time.

 

[Kable24]

That's what I'm saying bud. Long rifles aren't registered, so they don't know what I own.
I could sell my three AR's right now at a huge profit and there doesn't have to be any paperwork done.

 

[Spider-Who?]

No, the systematic extermination of Jews is not gun control.

Wow. I never said it was. They are two totally different - yet linked - events. Hitler took their guns away so that they couldn't defend themselves when he set out to exterminate them. He controlled who could (Germans) and who could not (German Jews) own guns. Yes, he went out and killed as many Jews as he could, but one of the first things he did was pass laws that took away their right to defend themselves from the coming violence. End of story.

We had this dumb discussion back when you tried telling me Astral Projection was a thing.

What?

 

[Spider-Who?]

Well, let's say the law passes. You die. Your kid gets your gun. If they find that gun on your kid, he goes to jail.

Selling would also be illegal. Granted, you might not get caught, but if you do, jail time.

Are they not planning on grandfathering in pre-owned rifles?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Are they not planning on grandfathering in pre-owned rifles?

Apparently not. You get to keep the one you have, but you can't give it away. When you die, the state gets it. Or your next of kin could keep it, but that would be a felony.

That'll probably get challenged though.

I believe that's the rule in California right now.

 

[Kelly]

Soooo, a multi-thousand dollar gun collection goes to California?

That is BS....has that been challenged in California? if not, why the hell not....?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Wow. I never said it was. They are two totally different - yet linked - events. Hitler took their guns away so that they couldn't defend themselves when he set out to exterminate them. He controlled who could (Germans) and who could not (German Jews) own guns. Yes, he went out and killed as many Jews as he could, but one of the first things he did was pass laws that took away their right to defend themselves from the coming violence. End of story.



What?

And there were Jewish uprisings, with guns, go look that up dude.

He ordered the confiscation of ALL THEIR PROPERTY.

The fact you call this "gun control", is bizarre. It's stripping people of their citizenship. Your comparison is not only invalid, it's insulting.

It's no more "gun control" than Mengle is and death panels "health care".

You're just repeating a tired political talking point. "I didn't like X so these horrible dictators supported these things". Firstly it shows an ignorance of government. Whatever laws that existed in Germany only regard to German citizens. The Jews weren't citizens, they were subject races, so they were wards of the state. Wards of the state have no rights of any kind. You may issue an order to confiscate their weapons, to your military. That's not a law, that's an order. And yes, the President can do that. However I kind of think its overly paranoid to think he would do such a brazenly foolish thing. Especially when he hasn't done anything so far.

"Gun control laws" are laws, they have to be constitutionally upheld in court.

I really don't think you understand the things the way you conflate things as if they are the same when they are not. It really makes you look like a sock puppet for whatever news reporter you spend too much time listening to.

Also the Government is allowed to, can, and does frequently restrict your rights. All the time. Everywhere. It was worse during the Founders time, even for those considered citizens.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Soooo, a multi-thousand dollar gun collection goes to California?

That is BS....has that been challenged in California? if not, why the hell not....?

I don't get how that's legal. It's someone's personal property and they should be able to give it to whomever they desire once they die (as long as the inheritors aren't convicted felons.)