Discussion: The Second Amendment IV

[Hotwire]

I'm sure there are a few. To a point, I think the current administration and their mindless followers would like to take away my guns and the guns of others, but it's a futile attempt.
He really is becoming the greatest gun salesman ever.

Hmm. Let's have a look at his stock portfolio.

 

[Kable24]

Hmm. Let's have a look at his stock portfolio.

Makes you think right?


Firearms maker Smith & Wesson Holding Corp. surged 10.8% to $10.48 a share in morning trading, more than double its price at the beginning of the year.

Sturm, Ruger & Co. Inc. got a 6.4% boost to $47.48 a share, a 39% increase from early January



http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/07/business/la-fi-mo-gun-sales-smith-wesson-obama-20121107


Right now, manufacturers of guns, ammunition and accessories like magazines are running 24/7 and still can't keep up with the demand.
plus, right now is a sellers market. I know I could easily make $10K if I decided to sell my stuff.

 

[DACrowe]

As for one moment that I think rips away through any cynicism...



If you notice, especially after the clip ended, Boehner is crying. That really actually pisses me off. He sees all these families who's lives were hurt or ruined by gun violence and he'll cry for them. But he won't lift a damn finger to try and stop it in the future. That is so pathetic.

 

[dnno1]

What part of that picture gives you the idea that you can look down the bore of the barrel from the breech to the muzzle?...

The hole in the back of the receiver.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

As for one moment that I think rips away through any cynicism...



If you notice, especially after the clip ended, Boehner is crying. That really actually pisses me off. He sees all these families who's lives were hurt or ruined by gun violence and he'll cry for them. But he won't lift a damn finger to try and stop it in the future. That is so pathetic.

So what? Whatever has been proposed by Feinstein is a load of cr@p, written by people who still don't understand that guns aren't the root cause of violence.

 

[Matt Mortem]

So what? Whatever has been proposed by Feinstein is a load of cr@p, written by people who still don't understand that guns aren't the root cause of violence.

What is? Pretty sure Britain gets the same video games and movies that we do, so....

 

[KalMart]

What is? Pretty sure Britain gets the same video games and movies that we do, so....

And so does Switzerland, and they have higher gun ownership, so.....


The gun isn't the root cause, but the argument is that it is an instrument that our society is too wont to use in malice. So if we take away the instrument, will it somehow deter acts of violence...or will they still happen with different instruments or other means? I don't think there's any real way to accurately predict that, but one can see how the outrage over gun violence needs to be addressed somehow some way, even though it doesn't undo what has happened.

Gun laws are probably at best a temporary band-aid and not a healing agent, but some feel that they'll take a bandaid over doing nothing. On the other hand, it's the 'doing nothing' that's the problem, in that larger contributing factors and issues aren't tackled enough which ends up nurturing violence and crime, and eventually the criminal use of guns.

 

[Matt Mortem]

And so does Switzerland, and they have higher gun ownership.

Then what is making Americans so 'nanners that they find it totally cool to kill every ****ing body?

 

[Webfoot Hero]

And so does Switzerland, and they have higher gun ownership, so.....

Economic disparity, bullying, poor mental healthcare, lack of enforcement of laws already on the books, and lack of proper parenting just to name a few.

 

[Matt Mortem]

Economic disparity, bullying, poor mental healthcare, lack of enforcement of laws already on the books, and lack of proper parenting just to name a few.

See, that all makes sense to me. Those are huge issues that need taken care of.

 

[KalMart]

Then what is making Americans so 'nanners that they find it totally cool to kill every ****ing body?

Lots of deeper and harder issues that take a long time to address. But it's natural to seek quick/temporary fixes to address an outrage...especially when a presidential term is only eight years at most. People like to think that their government is taking action against something so terrible like gun violence...but sometimes you also have to really think about what is being done, and what it'll actually do outside of just knowing that it was enacted.

 

[Kable24]

Then what is making Americans so 'nanners that they find it totally cool to kill every ****ing body?

This is my opinion on why people are doing this. It's not one simple answer. I figure when a teenager goes into his school and starts firing away at everyone and anyone, I say it was because they were bullied and didn't know how to fight back. Adam Lanza was an outcast, a social misfit and wasn't what society deems as normal or beautiful. He also suffered from mental issues and a bad mother for not seeing those issues and locking her guns up. For some they are at the end of their ropes and just start to hate people. Some have poor upbringing and are a part of the entitlement, me generation that currently is the new thing. Today's youth demand on having everything handed to them and very few ever have a true work ethic. It's all mine mine mine and want want want and you can't tell them "NO", you can't discipline your children without Big Sister/Big Brother arresting you. Most people in this country have little respect for others or even themselves.
I think how this country is being run into the ground and things that are being forced on the people of this country are running people ragged and are so stressed that they break. A person can take only so much before they just can't take anymore and lash out at those they deem hated. Then you have morons like James Holmes who was living in a fantasy world.
Guns aren't the problem. Guns are just the tool that the problem uses. We all have problems and we all have stress and reach a breaking point. There hasn't been one time where I was at that point where I ever looked at my guns and think I was going to make someone pay for my stress or bringing me down. As much as a certain person on here likes to think just because I own a gun, I plan to kill.
So I think mental issues, stress, upbringing and environment all play a part in why an individual would do this kind of thing.

 

[Kable24]

Economic disparity, bullying, poor mental healthcare, lack of enforcement of laws already on the books, and lack of proper parenting just to name a few.

I spent the last 15 minutes writing all of that and you say it all in one sentence.

 

[TheDevilIsMe]

I would argue that...for anyone advocating all weapons stay legal simply for the fact that "Guns are everywhere and will never go away" - I must then ask that person if legalizing drugs is something they are for since "Drugs are everywhere and will never go away" as well.

I'm in favor of guns staying around, for the most part - and of decriminalizing drugs. I think trying to ban assault weapons or guns in general is a waste of time, as it will never happen.

Actually, decriminalizing drugs would help bring gun violence down a tad.

What disgusts me is how religious people are about their guns - the Second Amendment is the only Amendment people know, for the most part. They love guns to the point where it's a bit scary, actually. Their enthusiasm is what the issue in America is - the love of violence and weapons.

People in this nation see guns as amazing things rather than a necessary burden to have to keep in order to protect themselves with.

 

[KalMart]

I would argue that...for anyone advocating all weapons stay legal simply for the fact that "Guns are everywhere and will never go away" - I must then ask that person if legalizing drugs is something they are for since "Drugs are everywhere and will never go away" as well.

I'm in favor of guns staying around, for the most part - and of decriminalizing drugs. I think trying to ban assault weapons or guns in general is a waste of time, as it will never happen.

Actually, decriminalizing drugs would help bring gun violence down a tad.

What disgusts me is how religious people are about their guns - the Second Amendment is the only Amendment people know, for the most part. They love guns to the point where it's a bit scary, actually. Their enthusiasm is what the issue in America is - the love of violence and weapons.

People in this nation see guns as amazing things rather than a necessary burden to have to keep in order to protect themselves with.

Which is always a good and difficult question. There are arguments for both, and I'm against legalizing drugs. Lots of times it comes down to how someone morally feels about something as well.

But again, the gun as a problem is an instrument, an outgrowth of something deeper, and in a lot of ways something that one would come to expect in a denser, modern society with great economic disparities like the US....kinda' like we'd expect a big city to be a tougher place than a small town.

But then, it also seems that more serial killers come from small towns, and there's less diversity and tolerance in smaller towns to things that are non-Christian or liberal, etc.. It's a give and take.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I spent the last 15 minutes writing all of that and you say it all in one sentence.

Not my first rodeo anymore when it comes to discussing this topc. I've learned to make my stuff a little more concise, otherwise I'd be doing what you did.

 

[KalMart]

Also let's say laws were enacted today that severely restricted the sale of guns from this point forward. That will still do nothing to dissuade whatever crimes will come in the near future with legal or illegal weapons obtained from before this law...and those will last for years to come. So they'd also have to actually go out and take them away...and the legal ones are really the only ones that you can track down. You also suddenly pull the rug out from under lots of businesses surrounding firearms, and they're not going to just quietly give it all up and find something else. Look at all the jobs that will suddenly disappear...will the govt. compensate for that?

To someone reacting to gun violence, this may seem almost irrelevant since we're talking about lives here, but in reality they'd be huge issues...not to mention all the money and political influence/connections that'd be affected. So that's just a taste of what gun laws are facing, and then you have to wonder what they'll actually achieve. To which one may respond "Then we do nothing?". Is nothing really the only alternative?

 

[Destructus86]

So...here's my thing. Automatic weapons should be something that are extremely, painfully difficult to buy. Because, aside from the collector, no one else has a REASON to own one. Stick to shotguns, rifles and pistols. No fully automatic. Not banned, just very difficult to obtain.
Sure, it causes an inconvenience, but who cares? Is you avoiding an inconvenience more important than human life? (I only say this because let's be honest...we are never going to solve the social issues truly involved in this. No one wants to.)

 

[Destructus86]

Then what is making Americans so 'nanners that they find it totally cool to kill every ****ing body?

Huge social issues. We are a very isolated society. Much more than many other countries. It's easier to devalue human life if you don't interact with it on a deeper, community based level.

Also...and this is unproven...but I can't help but wonder if the chemicals we ingest in our foods (many of which are BANNED in other countries, but not here) may have something to do with our psychology.

 

[Kable24]

So...here's my thing. Automatic weapons should be something that are extremely, painfully difficult to buy. Because, aside from the collector, no one else has a REASON to own one. Stick to shotguns, rifles and pistols. No fully automatic. Not banned, just very difficult to obtain.
Sure, it causes an inconvenience, but who cares? Is you avoiding an inconvenience more important than human life? (I only say this because let's be honest...we are never going to solve the social issues truly involved in this. No one wants to.)

As it is now, Class III rifles are very difficult to come by and are very expensive. They can run $12,000 or more depending on what it is. There is tons of paperwork to fill out, a local sheriff needs to sign off on it as well as the Feds. It takes 6 to 8 months to actually receive the rifle after all checks go through. Another thing. Unless, you are a Class III dealer with a type 2 license I think it is, you cannot purchase any full auto made after 1986. So, I can buy any full auto made prior to 1986, but anything after, I cannot without the proper licenses which are very expensive. A Coworker spent $25,000 to $30,000 the other year for a vintage Vietnam era AR10. It took him a full year from the time he filled out the paperwork, paid the tax stamp and had all of the necessary checks done before he had that rifle in hand.

 

[Destructus86]

As it is now, Class III rifles are very difficult to come by and are very expensive. They can run $12,000 or more depending on what it is. There is tons of paperwork to fill out, a local sheriff needs to sign off on it as well as the Feds. It takes 6 to 8 months to actually receive the rifle after all checks go through. Another thing. Unless, you are a Class III dealer with a type 2 license I think it is, you cannot purchase any full auto made after 1986. So, I can buy any full auto made prior to 1986, but anything after, I cannot without the proper licenses which are very expensive. A Coworker spent $25,000 to $30,000 the other year for a vintage Vietnam era AR10. It took him a full year from the time he filled out the paperwork, paid the tax stamp and had all of the necessary checks done before he had that rifle in hand.

If it's that hard to get an automatic weapon then what the heck is up with all the shootings? I don't get it.

 

[Kable24]

If it's that hard to get an automatic weapon then what the heck is up with all the shootings? I don't get it.

Who said anyone was using an automatic rifle? They are using Semi Automatics AR15 sporting rifles, pistols and shotguns.

 

[KalMart]

So...here's my thing. Automatic weapons should be something that are extremely, painfully difficult to buy. Because, aside from the collector, no one else has a REASON to own one. Stick to shotguns, rifles and pistols. No fully automatic. Not banned, just very difficult to obtain.
Sure, it causes an inconvenience, but who cares? Is you avoiding an inconvenience more important than human life? (I only say this because let's be honest...we are never going to solve the social issues truly involved in this. No one wants to.)

Automatic weapons...as in you hold the trigger down and it keeps firing until you let go...are very difficult to obtain. They already aren't available for sale except law enforcement and such. Semi-automatics include anything from an AR-15 to a WW2-era M1 Garand, to semi-auto shotguns used in bird hunting, to what have you. They're still just one shot per trigger pull, just as it would be for a revolver or a manual bolt-action. It just uses the force of the projectile to expel he shell and load the next round....it won't actually fire until you release and squeeze the trigger again.

Take the Sandy Hook shooting for example...the gun primarily used was a semi-auto AR-15...same one-shot-per-trigger-pull operation as any other semi-automatic weapon out there in whatever caliber. Problem is that it is seen as an 'automatic weapon' or a gun more lethal than others because it looks the part, it plays the part in movies, and its platform is more of a military/tactical one. Technically, construction and operation wise, it's no more lethal than a semi-automatic rifle/shotgun that's already widely available that we'd associate with light target shooting or quail hunting. But it sure looks the part, both to those who want to play up the sensationalism as well as those who are attracted to it over a more plain-jane model.

Technically, there's no case to target it as being more dangerous than another semi-automatic firearm, so it's an error to try and single them out. But much of the non-gun-owning public won't really know that, and if you're basing it off of movies and news, the image you get is of some machine-gun. This presents a problem when trying address the issue because quite simply some people aren't schooled on them enough, and that can misguide judgement. So it's not that simple...just as it wouldn't be to remove sports cars and cars with rear wings to cut down on vehicular deaths. A little Kia is just as deadly as a Lamborghini if the driver is texting on the highway. And people will still find a way to race if they want to, regardless of what cars you take off the market.

 

[KalMart]

Huge social issues. We are a very isolated society. Much more than many other countries. It's easier to devalue human life if you don't interact with it on a deeper, community based level.

Also...and this is unproven...but I can't help but wonder if the chemicals we ingest in our foods (many of which are BANNED in other countries, but not here) may have something to do with our psychology.

Today's chicken is certainly growing bigger boys and maturing girls earlier.

 

[Super Kal]

well, for what its worth, one can get a class 3, or fully automatic, weapon- it just takes a real hassle to get it. you have to wait 6 months in order to get it, go through a hell of a lot of paperwork, not to mention the price tags for these weapons are through the roof (think 5 digit prices)...