Discussion: The Second Amendment IV

[Kelly]

So we don't even try, right?


Just means we need to build/improve those checks and balances. Which, honestly, all supposedly secure websites need based on the identify theft and data stealing issues they've been having.

Not a damn thing.....we'll just sit here.

 

[Marvolo]

Not a damn thing.....we'll just sit here.

Well, this I can do.t:

 

[roach]

Well, this I can do.t:

i'll order a pizza....oh !@#$%^ i accidently order ammo (Irony brought to you by Ford Motor Company)

 

[Webfoot Hero]

One of the largest gun/outdoor sporting goods shows on the East Coast, being run by a British exhibitor known for its anti-gun stances, has banned the showing or selling of any modern sporting rifles and their magazines. Not surprising, many vendors and celebrity attendees are boycotting the show.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/sto...astern-Sports-and/lDZLxxPYJkKI0X5CKmMJHA.cspx

 

[Hotwire]

both wrong. all three are the exact same semi-auto rifle.
the bottom two models are based on the first model, the Mossberg 702 Plinkster. the other 2 models are exactly the same as the top, both only allow 10rd magazine. the only difference is the outer casing: one looks like a hunting rifle, the other to are fashioned in an AR style.

the term "assault weapon" is based on looks, not on functionality.
http://www.assaultweapon.info/

So, the top one has a buffer in the stock as well? Do you have a picture of how it breaks down?

 

[Marvolo]

i'll order a pizza....oh !@#$%^ i accidently order ammo (Irony brought to you by Ford Motor Company)

Ford always provides the best irony tho their sarcasm leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Phallic]

Okay, so in order to open the conversation you need to be able to carry your gun everywhere. I don't know, I really have problems with people in a bar drinking having a gun. I'm also kind of happy my wife doesn't have to worry about her patients at the hospital being armed, however, that's not nearly always the case, since we live in AZ and many people consider their gun like their wallet, they should always have it on them. Also, reciprocity seems like a slippery slope that leads to state laws being dismantled, since you're asking for one states law to carryover to every state. Not trying to be difficult, just trying to show my concerns with the only three things you want to open the conversation.

This is not the only thing, just one example of a concession to the pro-gun crowd. As I said, compromise is a 2 way street.

And nobody is saying that you should be allowed to drink while in possession of a firearm, and it's rightly illegal as is. If I go to a restaurant that has a bar area and have no intention of drinking, why should that be any different?

I listed examples, not the be all end all.

 

[Hotwire]

This is not the only thing, just one example of a concession to the pro-gun crowd. As I said, compromise is a 2 way street.

And nobody is saying that you should be allowed to drink while in possession of a firearm, and it's rightly illegal as is. If I go to a restaurant that has a bar area and have no intention of drinking, why should that be any different?

I listed examples, not the be all end all.

So, this would open up some issues. What's wrong with asking people to leave their guns in the car instead of turning bartenders and servers into security guards, checking all their customers for guns before they can take their drink order?

"May I take your drink order?"
"Yes, I'll have a Jack & Coke."
"Okay, sir. If you'll just stand up while I pat you down. I have to make sure you're not carrying a firearm."

 

[Phallic]

So, this would open up some issues. What's wrong with asking people to leave their guns in the car instead of turning bartenders and servers into security guards, checking all their customers for guns before they can take their drink order?

"May I take your drink order?"
"Yes, I'll have a Jack & Coke."
"Okay, sir. If you'll just stand up while I pat you down. I have to make sure you're not carrying a firearm."

Or we can stop treating every adult like a child.

 

[roach]

Since the dawn of time a small group of people has screwed it up for the rest.

 

[Hotwire]

Or we can stop treating every adult like a child.

You already said that drinking while carrying a weapon is illegal. If people are allowed to carry a gun into a bar, how else are we supposed to keep them from drinking while carrying a gun? The only answer I can think of is to confiscate it and let them drink, or, search them for it and if they want to hang on to it, refuse to serve them. I take it you're suggestion is to just trust them?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Some adults act like children. I'd actually say its the rule, not the exception.

 

[wiegeabo]

Doesn't help that we baby them instead of making them grow up.

 

[Phallic]

You already said that drinking while carrying a weapon is illegal. If people are allowed to carry a gun into a bar, how else are we supposed to keep them from drinking while carrying a gun? The only answer I can think of is to confiscate it and let them drink, or, search them for it and if they want to hang on to it, refuse to serve them. I take it you're suggestion is to just trust them?

That's how they do it in many states with little to no problems.

 

[justinlancaster]

That's how they do it in many states with little to no problems.

Not to mention it falls back on the judgement of the bar owner what they allow in their establishment provided there is no state or local law banning firearms in bars, clubs, etc. To me it would make more sense to let somebody drink with their concealed weapon holstered and then leave then to have them check it in at the door then try to re-holster it when they are leaving and **** faced. Probably could save a lot of footwear in the process. If there was no law in place I would imagine most bar owners would just put up a sign not allowing firearms what so ever.

 

[Grievous]

I really don't have a problem if a place of business wishes to be a no gun zone. Any place with drinks could obviously lead to bad judgment calls. Fact is you have no good reason to have a gun on you in a bar. Unless you are one of those guys that likes to act tough untill it gets ugly and than you pull a gun instead of taking a beating.

 

[Marvolo]

I really don't have a problem if a place of business wishes to be a no gun zone. Any place with drinks could obviously lead to bad judgment calls. Fact is you have no good reason to have a gun on you in a bar. Unless you are one of those guys that likes to act tough untill it gets ugly and than you pull a gun instead of taking a beating.

That is entirely dependent on the area you are in. Its not the bar that we carry the gun for. Its outside the bar at 3AM in the dark parking lot or alley we might need the gun. It does me no good in my car. I'm all for checking guns at doors, but I'll carry to and from the car.

 

[Grievous]

That is entirely dependent on the area you are in. Its not the bar that we carry the gun for. Its outside the bar at 3AM in the dark parking lot or alley we might need the gun. It does me no good in my car. I'm all for checking guns at doors, but I'll carry to and from the car.

Good point but what if someone doesn't want to give up their gun and try to slip it by, it's not like it would happen all the time but someone would be bound to try it. Do you pat down people to be safe?

 

[Marvolo]

Good point but what if someone doesn't want to give up their gun and try to slip it by, it's not like it would happen all the time but someone would be bound to try it. Do you pat down people to be safe?

Pat em down or let them go. That is the owners business, not mine. Either put a "No Gun" sign up or pat down or watch your customers. Most longtime responsible bartenders/owners are good at this stuff.

When it comes to a private establishment like a pub I'm of the opinion that it is the owner's decision. If he wants to allow guns and can maintain his crowd then it is his choice to do so. As a rule of thumb, I like to assume most if not all bar owners keep a gun at hand. It takes a brave/stupid man to pull a gun when there is a good chance the bar owner is going to plug you in the side while you are pointing your gun at the other person.

 

[Phallic]

Pat em down or let them go. That is the owners business, not mine. Either put a "No Gun" sign up or pat down or watch your customers. Most longtime responsible bartenders/owners are good at this stuff.

When it comes to a private establishment like a pub I'm of the opinion that it is the owner's decision. If he wants to allow guns and can maintain his crowd then it is his choice to do so. As a rule of thumb, I like to assume most if not all bar owners keep a gun at hand. It takes a brave/stupid man to pull a gun when there is a good chance the bar owner is going to plug you in the side while you are pointing your gun at the other person.

I definitely agree that property owners have the right to restrict firearms if they wish.

It's overarching government regulations that concern me. People are free to make whatever rules they see fit for their own property - similar to how I can choose who I wish to do business with.

 

[Kelly]

Pat em down or let them go. That is the owners business, not mine. Either put a "No Gun" sign up or pat down or watch your customers. Most longtime responsible bartenders/owners are good at this stuff.

When it comes to a private establishment like a pub I'm of the opinion that it is the owner's decision. If he wants to allow guns and can maintain his crowd then it is his choice to do so. As a rule of thumb, I like to assume most if not all bar owners keep a gun at hand. It takes a brave/stupid man to pull a gun when there is a good chance the bar owner is going to plug you in the side while you are pointing your gun at the other person.

The map on the link shows where you can carry a gun into a establishment where alcohol is served...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/us/04guns.html?_r=0

The law states whether or not a person can carry a gun into a restaurant where alcohol is served, not the owner...

 

[Destructus86]

That is entirely dependent on the area you are in. Its not the bar that we carry the gun for. Its outside the bar at 3AM in the dark parking lot or alley we might need the gun. It does me no good in my car. I'm all for checking guns at doors, but I'll carry to and from the car.

It doesn't make sense to NOT have people check their guns in at the door...that should be a standard.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

That is entirely dependent on the area you are in. Its not the bar that we carry the gun for. Its outside the bar at 3AM in the dark parking lot or alley we might need the gun. It does me no good in my car. I'm all for checking guns at doors, but I'll carry to and from the car.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Government needs to make allowances for people who choose to place themselves in dangerous situations like that. I'm not much for concealed carry, but places with alcohol and drugs are naturally going to be more dangerous and unpredictable. The fact is, anyone who is there at 3am chooses to be there, chooses to be in a dark alleyway or dark parking lot with zero people around. It'd be one thing if you worked there, or had to go through that type of environment every night due to your job or personal responsibilities. If you, however, choose to go out, get drunk, and stumble around at 3am, then you are choosing to put yourself in that danger. So, no, I don't see the need to have a gun in a bar, no matter how notoriously dangerous the place is.

 

[roach]

This whole bar/gun think doesn't make much sense to me. There have been few occasions where I have been in a bar where a fight didn't didn't break out. Lord forbid if one of those drunk people had a gun on them. Yes 99% of gun owners would be responsible but alcohol lowers intelligence. We don't let people drink and drive why let them have a gun?

 

[Spider-Who?]

Yeah, I'm against guns in bars. If you think you need a gun walking from the bar to your car in a dark alley at 3AM....don't go to the bar next to the dark alley at 3AM. Part of the responsibility of owning and carrying a gun is knowing when and where having a gun is appropriate, and trying to avoid situations where you feel you would need it. The fiance/baby daddy (we'll call him DJ) of one of my sister's friends got into a bar fight a couple years ago. He and his buddy decided it'd be best to leave and go home to their families. As they turned to exit the bar, the aggressor pulled a gun and shot DJ in the back three times and DJ's friend got hit in the arm and leg. DJ died before the ambulance got there. All because a fool with a gun got drunk and decided to start a fight.