Discussion: The Second Amendment IV

[Super Kal]

it's about time they gave up... now we can get to more important matters... how to keep guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens, and out of the hands of repeat criminals.

 

[wiegeabo]

So, with today's failure, I'm seeing a lot of people complaining how its a shame that assault weapons will be used in more school shootings.

Ad yet, I could have sworn I saw here were assault weapons weren't used.

So, what's the truth? When, if ever, has a assault weapon been used in a mass shooting. And please back it up with a source. Because if they haven't, I'd love to show these people the proof so they can stop reacting on fear alone.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Assault weapon is a rather vague term (and intentionally so). I mean, it's up there with "military-style weapon".

The actual assault weapons ban does list a number of weapons that have been used in mass school shootings (Columbine for example).

I don't know if it will make much of a difference. The deadliest shooting in recent history (Virginia Tech) was done with a semiautomatic handgun (the kind the ban wouldn't cover).

It's more of a reaction to the fact that the Newtown shooter used a semiautomatic rifle, which the media calls an "assault rifle" (even though that traditionally implies a fully automatic rifle) than anything else.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

The Aurora shooter used an AR-15, but it jammed due to him using an unreliable 100-round drum magazine. Most injuries were done with his pistols and pump action 12-gauge shotgun.

 

[wiegeabo]

And from what's been said in this thread, the AR-15 isn't an assault rifle either, seeing how its a semi-auto.

 

[Bill]

And from what's been said in this thread, the AR-15 isn't an assault rifle either, seeing how its a semi-auto.

It isn't. It is a political term to scare the uneducated. I'd be hard pressed to use an AR15 in an actual military assault where a high rate of fire for suppression is needed. Another thing you hear is "high powered" which is interesting since the 5.56/.223 is a varmint round. You have far more powerful calibers on your average deer rifle. And then how they justify the "evil features" is another joke that the average citizen doesn't get due to being uneducated on the rifle itself.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I don't think that's what she's saying. I think she's saying the focus needs to be on education and changing the way we raise young men to view and treat women. But Hannitty really didn't give he a chance to articulate herself.

And, again, either way arming women will not prevent the vast majority or rapes, because the vast majority or rapes are committed by people they know in places they think they're safe, not in dark alleyways with strangers.

Yeah, I don't get the whole rape analogy. Most people don't carry guns on dates and a lot of rapes happen on dates. Also a lot of rapes happen between friends when they have no idea the other wishes to do this. The problem is the majority of the public has this misconception, mostly perpetrated by Hollywood, that criminals are "evil" and "stupid". Fact is, most criminals are pretty street smart and have a lot of common sense. Might not have the best educations, but then again I do, and I can't fiddle, or hotwire a car. They don't teach that in College.

I know I'm on a comic website, although this is the political section so I know Matt owned or works in a bar? If so I'm sure he'd back me on this.

The bar scene is rife with rape and sexual assault. Alcohol certainly adds fuel to the fire. I actually seriously wonder just how many women I know who have been raped. I actually imagine it's quite staggering. Because it's a silent crime. Women rarely turn in their attackers. So encouraging women to combat this problem with guns is the same as stoking fears about "Imaginary Hitler". If someone truly wants to rape a woman, they're going to know enough not to approach them while armed. To try to befriend them enough to get close enough to them. It might be safe to argue people like this are deranged or have a diseased mental state, but they are not immune to reason and common sense. Otherwise they would've blown it already and shown their hand. Got caught.

The FBI estimates between 4 and 5 million rapes occur in the United States, male against female. Of those, maybe 5% get reported and see trial. Of those, only about 40-50% end in convictions (and actually their are a lot of fake rape reports too, which makes things even more confusing).

 

[Victarion]

I figure preventing any number of rapes would be considered a good thing, TQ.

 

[The Question]

I figure preventing any number of rapes would be considered a good thing, TQ.

Yes, but focussing on a less effective solution because it makes us feel better instead of the more effective solution that forces us to face hard truths isn't a good thing at all.

 

[Victarion]

Yes, but focussing on a less effective solution because it makes us feel better instead of the more effective solution that forces us to face hard truths isn't a good thing at all.

There's no harder truth than death; that's the sort of truth anyone carrying a gun for self-defense has to face and come to grips with.

 

[The Question]

There's no harder truth than death; that's the sort of truth anyone carrying a gun for self-defense has to face and come to grips with.

Beyond repeating two words that I used, I fail to see what this has to do with what I said.

Arming women is not an overly effective way to prevent rape. Changing our culture's views on sexuality and gender is. People like the idea of arming women because it's an easy solution, it makes it easer to maintain a morally simplistic world view, and it's emotionally cathartic. People don't like the idea of changing the culture because it forces them do come face to face with their own flaws and the flaws of their society, as well as revealing intrenched social institutions that many people both enjoy and are privileged by to be toxic, dangerous and morally repugnant crap.

That's what I was talking about.

 

[Victarion]

Your idea is easier said than, done, TG. It could take years before society reaches the ideal you describe; in the interim I see no problems in offering women-or anyone who passes a legitimately rigorous background check-the option to possess a firearm for defense if they wish it.

On the topic of views of gender, did you hear about the "Dongles" incident?

 

[The Question]

Your idea is easier said than, done, TG. It could take years before society reaches the ideal you describe; in the interim I see no problems in offering women-or anyone who passes a legitimately rigorous background check-the option to possess a firearm for defense if they wish it.

I see no problem with that either. My problem is with the assertion that it's the solution. It's not, and thinking it is delays solving the problem.

On the topic of views of gender, did you hear about the "Dongles" incident?

No.

 

[Destructus86]

There have been a lot of teen shootings lately.

So...who's to blame?

1) First it's the teen who did the shooting that is to blame. We are all responsible for our own actions

2) This is the one the media seems to forget about...THE PARENTS. I'm sure, but any attentive parent would see the signs and there are always LOTS of them. (talk to any psychologist)

How about we start with fixing the issue of crappy parenting? (or the lack of in general)

 

[Webfoot Hero]

There have been a lot of teen shootings lately.

So...who's to blame?

1) First it's the teen who did the shooting that is to blame. We are all responsible for our own actions

2) This is the one the media seems to forget about...THE PARENTS. I'm sure, but any attentive parent would see the signs and there are always LOTS of them. (talk to any psychologist)

How about we start with fixing the issue of crappy parenting? (or the lack of in general)

That and bullying (which more than likely is a result of crappy parenting) are probably the leading causes of these shootings.

 

[Spider-Who?]

On the topic of views of gender, did you hear about the "Dongles" incident?

Are you talking about the PyCon thing?

 

[Victarion]

Are you talking about the PyCon thing?

Yes. Reddit and 9Gag lost their minds when they attacked whatever company whatshername worked for.

 

[enterthemadness]

filibuster! filibuster! I feel like learning German just to talk ****.


http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/rand-paul-and-ted-cruz-threaten-filibuster-on-guns-89299.html


Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, and a guy named Mike 'Not dat Lee' Lee threaten a filibuster on guns


I'll hold me piss in honor of them.

 

[DACrowe]

Coming into this thread is like stepping into quicksand, but I thought this was even more hilarious than the actual Jim Carrey Funny or Die video:



Man they are sure pissed about something from a "has-been" "unintellectual" Canadian.

I also love how they claim the video cruelly stereotypes Southerners and Westerners, then he writes off the entire West Coast and New York as "elitists" and limousine liberals and all that jazz. I heard Hannity also had an anxiety attack where he then separated New York, LA, Chicago, D.C. and San Francisco from the "real America."

Carrey is enjoying all the free publicity, I am sure.

 

[DACrowe]

I also saw that stuff about Rand Paul this morning. Not surprised. I imagine they can still get the bill as written by Reid's staff around this by circumventing debate or amendments. But it almost guarantees the bill will not be made stronger. Not really surprised to see those who fearmonger about the US government dropping a drone on citizens to then shrug about making it harder for some ******* to shoot up a school. Same old for that crowd every year.

 

[Super Kal]

just another hollywood hypocrite. not worth my time.

 

[Kable24]

just another hollywood hypocrite. not worth my time.

Agreed. I didn't even bother with it.

 

[Handsome Rob]

just another hollywood hypocrite. not worth my time.

This. I haven't watched it. Won't watch it.

 

[DACrowe]

I wonder if he argued against gun control if it would be considered hypocritical to this thread?

Anyway, the video I found more funny because it is Fox News blowing a fuse over the video.

 

[enterthemadness]

I also saw that stuff about Rand Paul this morning. Not surprised. I imagine they can still get the bill as written by Reid's staff around this by circumventing debate or amendments. But it almost guarantees the bill will not be made stronger. Not really surprised to see those who fearmonger about the US government dropping a drone on citizens to then shrug about making it harder for some ******* to shoot up a school. Same old for that crowd every year.

I have come to the realization...that I do not like guns. Should make me a democrat. Nope. Just cause I don't like something, doesn't mean ****. People can have the right to arm/defend themselves.

You have to understand...once you make something a law....it becomes easier to go further with a new law.