Discussion: The Second Amendment V

[Webfoot Hero]

And being in Texas, he could have easily AND LEGALLY purchased a gun and extended magazine. Then it could have easily been 14 dead or more. But, according to many, requiring that background check would never stop him so, we certainly shouldn't put that obstacle in his way.

If he had no prior crimes or mental reports in his background, then he'd easily pass any check at a gun shop. It's hard to stop someone when there's nothing in their past to say they're a danger. The bill that was in Congress wouldn't have made it difficult for him to pass a check either.

 

[Kelly]

And being in Texas, he could have easily AND LEGALLY purchased a gun and extended magazine. Then it could have easily been 14 dead or more. But, according to many, requiring that background check would never stop him so, we certainly shouldn't put that obstacle in his way.

Possibly, but the gun shop owners I know, they are a prickly lot of people...they are critical as hell....I'm not sure that he could have gotten past any of them. This guy, from what I've heard, had that damn puppet thing with him everywhere he went...and I have known many of those gun shop owners to deny people the paperwork.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Possibly, but the gun shop owners I know, they are a prickly lot of people...they are critical as hell....I'm not sure that he could have gotten past any of them. This guy, from what I've heard, had that damn puppet thing with him everywhere he went...and I have known many of those gun shop owners to deny people the paperwork.

I could easily see some shop owners not liking how "eccentric" his personality and behavior seemed to be and just not want to deal with him. Some owners up here in Oregon can be the same way. Kind of old-time owners who will easily not sell if they don't feel right with the customer.

 

[Hotwire]

Possibly, but the gun shop owners I know, they are a prickly lot of people...they are critical as hell....I'm not sure that he could have gotten past any of them. This guy, from what I've heard, had that damn puppet thing with him everywhere he went...and I have known many of those gun shop owners to deny people the paperwork.

But I'm not talking about gun shop owners. I'm talking about a private seller at a gun show. And again, why would anyone be opposed to putting him through the background checks?

Honestly, if someone can own a gun to protect against the off chance that someone may break into your home, I'm willing to put people through background checks to protect against the off chance that they may have a criminal or mental health record.

 

[jmc]

A question I'd like to know is are average people with guns actually prepared for what happens in the unfortunate event they have to use it. It's one thing to own a weapon, it's another thing to use it on another human being.

 

[terry78]

Some kind of training class should be required before purchase. I'm not all "arrgh guns are evil" but some precaution does need to take place.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

A question I'd like to know is are average people with guns actually prepared for what happens in the unfortunate event they have to use it. It's one thing to own a weapon, it's another thing to use it on another human being.

If someone buys a gun and expects that now makes them proficient in using it, then they are a dumb***. Most gunowners go to the range or take a training class so they know how to use their weapons.

 

[Victarion]

A question I'd like to know is are average people with guns actually prepared for what happens in the unfortunate event they have to use it. It's one thing to own a weapon, it's another thing to use it on another human being.

Shoot for their chest; shotguns are terrible because rookies don't clear corners.

 

[Thundercrack85]

A question I'd like to know is are average people with guns actually prepared for what happens in the unfortunate event they have to use it. It's one thing to own a weapon, it's another thing to use it on another human being.

If history has shown us anything, it's that humans excel at killing each other. Often for no particular reason.

I can't imagine someone who would buy a deadly weapon would have any problem using it with the intention to kill if they actually had good reason.

That's not to say they'd necessarily succeed at killing or wounding someone, but it wouldn't be for a lack of trying.

One problem long associated with guns, is that it makes killing so easy, that it doesn't have the same psychological impact on people as say killing someone in the "traditional" method. Probably had a lot to do with the massacres in the world wars and Vietnam.

All you have to do is point and squeeze.

 

[terry78]

"It's like a video game." - Spring Breakers

 

[jmc]

I'm talking more about the psychological aspect. Are people with guns actually prepared for the consequences that might befall upon them personally. Taking a life is easy, it's the aftermath that I'm questioning.

 

[terry78]

Everybody is different. Some may never function normally, others will just go with their lives, some may find some pleasure in it.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Maybe I've played too many violent video games, but if my life is in danger, and I don't live in a country or state where they would prosecute me for lethal self-defense, I would blow them away. Only real concern being that I have enough rounds left if there is a second guy with a gun.

When someone breaks through your front door armed with a gun or a machete (what have you), you're not going to think about the aftermath. If you do, you'll be dead.

 

[jmc]

Honestly, what are the odds of that actually happening? My point is this whole attitude is built on things that 'might' happen, someone might rob me, the government may collapse, we might get invaded. Well, if my uncle had breasts he'd be my aunt.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I've had several houses broken in (3 to be exact). I wasn't home. But it does happen. I've known a few people who had break ins at night. One ended in a shooting (the intruder who had a knife was shot, but survived).

 

[jmc]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen but there seems to be this attitude of overblowing the possibilities. My thoughts are this, I don't think many people actually realize that they're putting someone's life in their hands and what the consequences are. Frankly, the US needs to be saved from itself. Can you make a weapon out of anything? Of course, but a guns primary purpose is to kill, you can't cook with it, you can't play baseball with it, you can't use it in chemistry.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I believe in a fundamental right to self-defense. So I do believe some weapons should be legal. I just disagree with some people here, on what that list should include. Some people here want battle rifles and grenade launchers legalized. I am fairly content with a handgun and or a shotgun.

For me it's not about taking down a corrupt government (as it is for some people around here, apparently). It's about being able to do more than hide in a closet and call the police when someone kicks down your door or loots your shop (like in say England).

 

[jmc]

Everyone has the right to defend themselves but I don't think many are prepared for what that type of defence can lead to. It could make matters far worse and screw up their life afterward, granted they survive in the first place because if two people now have guns there's a worse chance of being killed.

 

[Bill]

Honestly, what are the odds of that actually happening? My point is this whole attitude is built on things that 'might' happen, someone might rob me, the government may collapse, we might get invaded. Well, if my uncle had breasts he'd be my aunt.

I know that comes up a lot. What are the odds? Do you want to play the odds with your life in the balance? You may go your whole life without anything occurring, or you may go out tomorrow, and your family and friends will read about your death in the paper or hear it on the news. We just had an incident about a month ago not too far from where I live where an accused pedophile under house arrest slipped his electronic tracker, went to a nearby mall and abducted then repeatedly stabbed a mother and raped her 10 year old adopted daughter.

Now, I have a daughter that fits her profile. Do I want to continue to hope that the "odds" are in my favor? Home invasions happen. Robberies happen. Rapes happen. And so do mass killings. You can "play the odds" given that you are always fortunate enough to hear about them and not have to experience them and feel "safe" because they don't happen to you. Some, on the other hand, would prefer not to be a victim. You have a pretty flippant ****ing attitude for taking what is really a small precaution against being another statistic or living just a bit longer.

 

[KalMart]

The problem (and need for some training) isn't in knowing how to fire a gun in a threatening situation, but to control it and yourselves when your heart is beating a million per minute, blood pressure is through the roof, you're frantic and senses are going haywire. Many, many people...including policemen...have never been in a situation that stressful and have no precedent on how they'll handle themselves, even with a lot of hours on the range..standing still, firing at paper. In this state of mind someone could get into horrible accidents driving a car...something they do for hours every day of their lives, for pete's sake.

What you hope for is that gun owners are familiar enough with their firearms that even in a stressful situation, they rely on their familiarity and training so as not to squeeze the trigger out of a fear reflex or the like, or shoot themselves or someone innocent while fumbling with a safety while their hands are shaking, and so on. Is that a lot to ask? Sure it is, but owning a firearm has a lot of responsibility for the well being of those around you. I feel there has to be more care taken, when owning a firearm beyond just knowing how to shoot it. Self control is the most important factor. I think that maybe even anger management may help as a requirement...even if you're not known to have a temper.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I have to say he has a gun, then, I'd want a gun.

Obviously the circumstances make a big difference, but if someone armed breaks into your house, you'd be foolish to have a "wait and see" attitude.

Worst case scenario, you shoot, miss, and he kills you. Worst case scenario without a gun, he just kills you, and then rapes / kills the rest of your family. Well, I guess the latter would still happen with a gun if you miss.

Point is, don't miss.

 

[jmc]

I know that comes up a lot. What are the odds? Do you want to play the odds with your life in the balance? You may go your whole life without anything occurring, or you may go out tomorrow, and your family and friends will read about your death in the paper or hear it on the news. We just had an incident about a month ago not too far from where I live where an accused pedophile under house arrest slipped his electronic tracker, went to a nearby mall and abducted then repeatedly stabbed a mother and raped her 10 year old adopted daughter.

Now, I have a daughter that fits her profile. Do I want to continue to hope that the "odds" are in my favor? Home invasions happen. Robberies happen. Rapes happen. And so do mass killings. You can "play the odds" given that you are always fortunate enough to hear about them and not have to experience them and feel "safe" because they don't happen to you. Some, on the other hand, would prefer not to be a victim. You have a pretty flippant ****ing attitude for taking what is really a small precaution against being another statistic or living just a bit longer.

Look I understand concern, but that comes across more as paranoia. Yes, **** happens, terrible ****, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen to you. Maybe if the mother had a gun she could have killed him, maybe she could have made the situation far worse, if all the cards are stacked in someone's favour on a particular day they might get out unscaved, or maybe the opposite happens. But that's real life for you. People could have all the weapons in the world but it's doesn't matter if they're not at the right place at the right time with all the circumstances in their favour. If having a weapon makes people feel safe then I'm sorry, it's a false sense of security.

 

[wiegeabo]

If nothing else, use the suggestion made in this thread of a shotgun filled with birdshot shells.

The birdshot won't go through walls, so you won't hit someone in another room, much less outside. The chance of killing the intruder is low, but the chance of inflicting pain and deterring an attack is high.

You could even use rock salt shells. Hurt like hell, and salt in the eyes can 'blind' someone for a short time.

 

[Thundercrack85]

It's happened to people I've known. People I knew have been murdered. It could certainly happen to you.

If you have a home invasion, and you want to take your chances relying on police with their response time, that's your right, and, in my opinion your folly.

 

[jmc]

It's happened to people I've known. People I knew have been murdered. It could certainly happen to you.

If you have a home invasion, and you want to take your chances relying on police with their response time, that's your right, and, in my opinion your folly.

If people wanna break in and steal some of my stuff they can have it, I'm not tempted to make a bad situation worse for the sake of a few replaceable items.