Discussion: The Tea Party

[StorminNorman]

of course they can, but they're accountable to the voters. corporations aren't held accountable by the public. if they do something that pollutes a whole town they'll deny it and hide behind an army of lawyers or settle out of court because they can afford to, while looking for other ways to get around the rules that protect the public from them.

It's the other way around.

The Private Sector is the voluntary sector - we choose who we do business with.

The Public Sector is the coercion sector - we have no choice but to deal with them. The "accountable to the public" bit is obviously a crock - in today's world larger states like California hold significantly more power than a state like Utah.

 

[SentinelMind]

so why do I always have the feeling that there are racial undertones to this "movement"?? that if they had their way us darkies would be relegated to the back of busses and separate restrooms

Because you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the movement.

It's quite strange really - you are right about most things politically, but so wrong on this.

To come to BlackLantern's defense, one of the reasons I've kind of refrained from calling myself a tea party member, even if I agree with some of tenants of limited government, is that the tea party movement does come across more and more like a cultural organization than a political organization. I was driving on the road and listening to a conservative radio talk show host after the passage of health care reform. One caller called in and complained how 'our type of people are losing power' and asked where he can find the closest tea party movement in the area. The astute radio host tried to move the topic away from the caller's intent to focus on the Obamacare abomination.

Furthermore, it doesn't really help when there are events hosted by tea party leaders like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck at Restore Honor Rally on day of Martin Luther King Jr's speech, which attempted to associate MLK's message with "honoring the military" and other planks of the conservative movement.

Even some prominent black conservatives, such as Lenny McAllister, refused to sit on stage at the event as they felt it was disrespectful to MLK's legacy.....which it was. MLK spoke strictly of desegregation and equal rights...his message was not about embracing conservative message or honoring military. There is a time and place for everything, and Palin/Beck knew exactly what they were doing coopting that day and location.

If the tea party movement was a strictly political organization, like say CATO (which I've paid dues) or Heritage Foundation I would feel more comfortable. I'm not suggesting tea partiers are racist against all blacks or that they won't vote for a black politician (Since they helped elect 2), but there is this cultural vibe of mild "disappointment" or disregard of the black community that seems to seep the movement.

 

[StorminNorman]

The Tea Party elected black congressman. Herman Caine, a Black Republican, is one of the Tea Party favorites for 2012.

There is more racial diversity in the Tea Party than there has been in the mainstream GOP or even the out-of-mainstream libertarian faction in years. (The Tea Party is the mainstream libertarian movement)

I don't understand how Beck's speech was remotely disrespectful of MLK's legacy, BTW. His message is the same as MLKs.

The Tea Party can't be an institution like the CATO Institute because it is isn't organized. It's an attitude, a voting pattern - not an organization or faction.

Whether he likes it or not, BL's political ideology is more aligned with the Tea Party than any other group out there.

 

[chaseter]

I thought it was pretty distasteful for Beck to do it at the same exact place on the same exact day.

 

[BlackLantern]

yea

 

[StorminNorman]

I thought it was pretty distasteful for Beck to do it at the same exact place on the same exact day.

yea

Why?

 

[BlackLantern]

because what Beck intended, seems to be the opposite of what MLK intended

at least to the casual observer

 

[Marx]

I thought it was pretty distasteful for Beck to do it at the same exact place on the same exact day.

It was.

 

[chaseter]

Why?

Because Beck's rally had nothing to do with MLK or civil rights. Was it a happy coincidence that the rally was held on the exact same day at the exact same place? No. He did it to create controversy to get his name in the media. Therefore it was distasteful.

 

[Kelly]

Actually, most of the speeches that I heard centered on MLK and civil rights....


I'm not saying it was right for him to have chosen that spot on that day, or what his motive was for it.....

But MUCH, of what was said and talked about centered around MLK and the Civil Rights movement, heros, etc...

 

[chaseter]

I didn't watch the rally. It was a rally to restore honor so I figured it had nothing to do with equal rights.

I think he did it on purpose. I don't see why it would be so difficult to move it one day. He knew what he was doing. But then again I am pretty confident Beck is a professional troll with Anne Coulter, Keith Olbermann, and Rush.

 

[StorminNorman]

I didn't watch the rally. It was a rally to restore honor so I figured it had nothing to do with equal rights.

I think he did it on purpose. I don't see why it would be so difficult to move it one day. He knew what he was doing.

So you just assumed Beck's message was disrespectful to MLK without knowing what was actually said?

He did purposefully use that day, but that's because - again - his message is the same as MLKs.

 

[Kelly]

That may very well have been his motive...but he had MLK's niece as one of the speakers....

Waiting for the, her family doesn't like her stuff? I know....but only because she talks about self improvement of circumstances, rather than government handouts for the most part....which has alienated her from her family, even though MLK would probably agree...

 

[StorminNorman]

because what Beck intended, seems to be the opposite of what MLK intended

at least to the casual observer

It appears that way due to the ignorance of the casual observer. Just like the Tea Party appears racist due to the ignorance of the casual observer. If one actually attends a Tea Party function, or actually listen to Beck's message, they can actually attempt to understand it and realize their mistake.

 

[Kelly]

I watched the speeches from both rallies, again, I don't know Beck's motive behind the location, I do think another location for his rally would have better served in the perception of the rally...

With all of that said, after listening to the speeches from both rallies, I can truthfully say, with no hesitation that Beck's rally was FAAAAAAAAR LESS RADICAL in its messages than Revernd Sharpton's rally.....they seemed far more interested in blasting beck and making it clear that that particular day was for them only, than the actual message of the day.

I believe they had a right to be upset that they could not have their rally there...but no need to be childish as they were about it. As soon as they did that, their message was lost.

 

[Marx]

I watched the speeches from both rallies, again, I don't know Beck's motive behind the location, I do think another location for his rally would have better served in the perception of the rally...

With all of that said, after listening to the speeches from both rallies, I can truthfully say, with no hesitation that Beck's rally was FAAAAAAAAR LESS RADICAL in its messages than Revernd Sharpton's rally.....they seemed far more interested in blasting beck and making it clear that that particular day was for them only, than the actual message of the day.

I believe they had a right to be upset that they could not have their rally there...but no need to be childish as they were about it. As soon as they did that, their message was lost.

Well...this is Al Sharpton you're talking about. The majority of anything he does is for nothing more than publicity.

 

[Kelly]

Well, it was his rally.....so, I guess if they wanted the true meaning of MLK's message out there through the black voice, they (NAACP) should have chosen someone else to be the face and the voice of that rally.

 

[SentinelMind]

Actually, most of the speeches that I heard centered on MLK and civil rights....


I'm not saying it was right for him to have chosen that spot on that day, or what his motive was for it.....

But MUCH, of what was said and talked about centered around MLK and the Civil Rights movement, heros, etc...

Half of Sarah Palin's speech was focused on honoring military veterans fightin in wars overseas. That would be a great speech for Veteran's Day or Memorial Day. Trying to tie in couple of references to MLK while honoring military community is a deceptive sleight of hand, backhanded slap at MLK's legacy. "I have a Dream" speech wasn't about supporting our troops, it was about ending institutional segregation. Palin's speech had nothing to do with MLK's "I have a Dream" speech.

I'm not saying that we all have to agree with every MLK preached, he wasn't perfect, but there is a time and place for everything. Praising the military community on the day of an orator who had historically been known to be critical of military intervention abroad is a way of just white-washing/revisioning history.

Beck says in the speech he didn't realize it was the same day when he initially booked it, it was a bad coincidence. However, he then says the initial intent of the speech was to honor MLK. It doesn't really make sense.

 

[StorminNorman]

Since I imagine it takes a bit of prep time to book and put on an event like that, it's likely Beck booked the day - learned the significance of it and then decided to take advantage of the coincidence.

With him being a God fearing man, he likely took the coincidence as an instance of divine planning.

 

[BlackLantern]

and that's the worrisome part....that he actually believes God intended him to speak on that day

maybe im a little paranoid...just finished reading Under the Dome by Stephen King

 

[Marx]

POLL: NEARLY 3/4 OF VOTERS REGRET NOMINATING SHARRON ANGLE
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...s-regret-nominating-sharron-angle.php?ref=fpb

 

[BlackLantern]

wow

 

[chaseter]

So you just assumed Beck's message was disrespectful to MLK without knowing what was actually said?

He did purposefully use that day, but that's because - again - his message is the same as MLKs.

I am going to hold a comedian showcase on September 11th at Ground Zero and have all the comics be Muslims.

If Beck's message is the same as MLK's in your eyes then I really think you have come off your rocker.

 

[StorminNorman]

and that's the worrisome part....that he actually believes God intended him to speak on that day

maybe im a little paranoid...just finished reading Under the Dome by Stephen King

I can't say that I find Beck's religious motivation all that interesting - but I think it's genuine.

And I couldn't blame Beck for feeling that he has some sense of purpose. Consider the fact that he started, as you know so well, as a radio clown co-hosting with a monkey and is now the most influential political figure on TV (not most influential person in politics, but no one man has as much sway over a demographic. Besides maybe the Stewart/Colbert duo).

I am pretty sure Beck sees himself in a Thomas Paine/Patrick Henry sort of position. I can't say that's all that much of an overstatement, if the Tea Party is what I think it is.

 

[StorminNorman]

I am going to hold a comedian showcase on September 11th at Ground Zero and have all the comics be Muslims.

If Beck's message is the same as MLK's in your eyes then I really think you have come off your rocker.

Can you explain how your comparison is remotely valid and not over-the-top to the point of absurd?