The 2012 CNN/Tea Party Republican Presidential Debate

[Franklin Richards]

Principle without compassion is not honorable. You become Old Klingons or Ferengi.

 

[Quetzal]

Principle without compassion, Russians! Anyways I agree with Paul on a lot of things (Gold Standard, overextension of bases, legalizing of substances that can be taxed) And I like his humor and candor, and I honestly think he would have a better shot at the GE than someone like Bachmann (but only barely), but I see no hope for him either in his party or the GE.

Labor law
Work place safety law
Product Safety law (cars, drugs, food, etc.)

I really dont care what party your from, but those issues are common sense. While most of the list posted on the page before I agree with too, it could be done without.

And I really dont see the point of debate in the minimum wage, it just keeps the populace who works off the minimum wage less disgruntled and happier with the illusion of some power left for them in America. This isnt the guilded age any more, and even if we lowered/removed the Min Wage, it would have little effect on goods in a Globalized Econ and only cause resentment by the people.

Which might not be a bad thing, because terrible conditions were the sparks for the labor riots and movements that the robber barons came to fear. Honestly, it would be BETTER for the Republicans to not touch the Min Wage, because it might actually bring the populace up to care about government.

 

[StorminNorman]

Labor law
Work place safety law
Product Safety law (cars, drugs, food, etc.)

I really dont care what party your from, but those issues are common sense. While most of the list posted on the page before I agree with too, it could be done without.

Define labor law? Define Work place safety law? Hell definte product safety law. No libertarian wants to prevent a worker from being able to sue a negligent employer for harm they are responsible for. The question is whether that should be done reactively through courts or attempted to be prevented through bureaucratic regulation.

"Labor law" is really just a kickback to Unions. And "Work place/Consumer Safety laws" are really an advantage for large corporations that can better afford the additional costs of compliance. The biggest supporters of the legislative response to The Jungle was "Big Meat"!

 

[StorminNorman]

Principle without compassion is not honorable. You become Old Klingons or Ferengi.

You aren't being compassionate when you are forcing people to take action. Compassionate has to be personal, it can't be arbitrary.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Or beholden to some religious organization. Can't we have a little dignity? And it not arbitrary to target the ones who need it the most.

Can't we do better?

 

[DBryan]

I wish every liberal out there would go out and campaign for Ron Paul, so that we don't have to deal with that idiot Perry, or one of the other total fakes, as the person to face Obama.

 

[DACrowe]

If you care about principle, integrity and honor, then Ron Paul is the only Presidential contender you can support. It's that simple.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I wish every liberal out there would go out and campaign for Ron Paul, so that we don't have to deal with that idiot Perry, or one of the other total fakes, as the person to face Obama.

Except Ron Paul is more conservative than Rick Perry. Progressives are utterly incompatible with Ron Paul.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I like his foreign policy.

And I like that he doesn't want to turn our borders into walls.

 

[DBryan]

That's not really my point.

I'm a liberal and Ron Paul's got many opinions that do not correlate to mine.

But damn it, the guy is honest.

I think it would be healthy for democracy, to have a man like him face Obama. And even if Paul won, I'd rather have Paul, than any of the other ones.

People got to realize this, and even if they're liberal they ought to realize that Paul is honest, anti-establishment, and having him beat the other republicans is a good thing. Do it for the greater good!

 

[bunk]

Except Ron Paul is more conservative than Rick Perry. Progressives are utterly incompatible with Ron Paul.

Not completely incompatible. It's just the reasoning isn't necessarily the same, but there would be outcomes of a Paul administration that Progressives would appreciate and never see otherwise.

 

[Paradoxium]

I will give him this much, Paul is sincere about his belief. This is what endears him to some, and frightens the ****ing daylights out of others.

 

[dnno1]

Except that minimum wage laws doesn't set a minimum standard of living.

If I don't have a job, how does the minimum wage law set my minimum standard of living?

Further, what is the "minimum standard of living"? If I have a good family, or a good church, I can live off of the charity of those who support me while making $10,000 and be living a much better life than someone who makes $30k in Washington DC without such support.

And you don't need government legislation to define a sweatshop. Come on, man.

No, minimum wages sets the minimum standard for the worker. There are other vehicles that set a minimum standard of living based on your state. If you are unemployed, unemployment insurance or general relief will set that minimum standard. I don't know how much a church will help. I do know of some churches that have provided housing for homeless people, but that was through a government program (i.e. it was subsidized). I don't know if a church or religious organization could even make up the difference between the $10,000 figure you mentioned and the amount they would really need to survive in this society.

 

[Quetzal]

No, minimum wages sets the minimum standard for the worker. There are other vehicles that set a minimum standard of living based on your state. If you are unemployed, unemployment insurance or general relief will set that minimum standard. I don't know how much a church will help. I do know of some churches that have provided housing for homeless people, but that was through a government program (i.e. it was subsidized). I don't know if a church or religious organization could even make up the difference between the $10,000 figure you mentioned and the amount they would really need to survive in this society.

I really doubt a church can honestly make up the difference. I volunteer at a Ministry from our church trying to feed the poor/underpriveleged/homeless, and while we get a lot of donations its not near enough to help all the people that come to us. There are plenty of low income complexes I go to where we can only provide assistance every other week or so, and them and their children often go hungry (especially on the weekends without school). I consider it also a moral responsibility to not turn ones back on ones fellow man, and at least our church (Its a catholic church so we are fairly well connected and located in a wealthy area) cant meet the gap that people CURRENTLY face, much less if gov't left everything.

 

[Quetzal]

Define labor law? Define Work place safety law? Hell definte product safety law. No libertarian wants to prevent a worker from being able to sue a negligent employer for harm they are responsible for. The question is whether that should be done reactively through courts or attempted to be prevented through bureaucratic regulation.

"Labor law" is really just a kickback to Unions. And "Work place/Consumer Safety laws" are really an advantage for large corporations that can better afford the additional costs of compliance. The biggest supporters of the legislative response to The Jungle was "Big Meat"!

Hell, I am pro-union in general. And heck the Pure Food and Drugs Act is a pretty good product safety law, mandated hazard control laws/acts are a pretty good work place safety laws, and stopping the practice of using children as the workforce were pretty good laws. These are a couple I can think of off the top of my head, but there are plenty of necesary and good regulations, which logic and success of these laws says we should maintain them.

 

[Faramir]

Except Ron Paul is more conservative than Rick Perry. Progressives are utterly incompatible with Ron Paul.

Untrue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7dV6Fvkxq8

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7dV6Fvkxq8[/YT]

 

[Faramir]

The main issue in health reform are the prohibitive prices, and Ron Paul is the only guy that has a clue about that. The problem with health costs are...

1. Regulations from the Bush-era that made insurance companies mandatory intermediaries between health providing businesses (like hospitals) and patients...

2. Regulations that favour corporate HMOs (with subsidies, bought licenses or government contracts, like the Medicare and Medicaid Bush act), irrupting into the market and not allowing free competition to self-balance the costs...

3. A deficit-ridden economy with frequent state-directed "solutions" like stimulus plans that depend on new, printed fiat money and only leads to inflation. Life costs are getting more and more expensive everywhere in the country. That is a major factor of the hugely expensive health bills and leads a great number of people to opt out of insurance plans.
Now, we all know what must be done to get rid of fiat money and stop inflation... and we know we is the only guy saying that in the race.

It's normal for a man this popular to receive a blacklash from other people, but I beg you, get informed on what he has been saying and maybe you'll see it differently.

 

[Faramir]

Hell, I am pro-union in general.

Me too. I'm not necessarily against minimum wage. I'm against a raise of it, and I can understand what benefits may come (at a price) for reducing or even removing minimum wage. What I do value is a guy that takes a taboo subject and brings it to the table on an election year. That is gutsy, and that is the kind of president people need, specially when it comes to repudiating lobbies and balancing the budget.

But many unions are detrimental to the economy and have such a powerful force within the Democratic Party that policy reform becomes impossible. What has the Department of Education achieved in public education reform? Nothing! You can't raise education standards by buying cutting-edge computers for classrooms. The problems are the public programs AND the teachers level!

This is from the award-winning documentary "Waiting for Superman"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jETSf1ASzvc

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jETSf1ASzvc[/YT]

 

[DACrowe]

DAILY SHOW MAKES FUN OF IDEOLOGICAL PURITY OF TEA PARTY AT DEBATE AFTER THEY BOOED PERRY FOR LETTING IMMIGRANTS GO TO COLLEGE
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/t...ad-to-the-white-house---tough-tea-party-crowd

Very funny.

 

[Faramir]

^ I just almost died of pure laughter...

 

[StorminNorman]

Or beholden to some religious organization. Can't we have a little dignity? And it not arbitrary to target the ones who need it the most.

Can't we do better?

No one has a right to "dignity", nor should anyone be forced at a point oa gun to provide it. If your religious organization is the source of charity, great. If its your own concern for others, thats great to. But there is nothing noble about government. It's a thuggish institution dependent upon the threat of violence to operate.

The only candidate in the election that doesn't lie, doesn't pander, stands by principle. Hard to argue with.

Except Ron Paul is more conservative than Rick Perry. Progressives are utterly incompatible with Ron Paul.

No. Progressives who pride themselves on peace and non-violence have no option but to vote for Paul.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

I'd vote for Ron Paul...if I wanted nothing to be passed in Congress. If you look how republicans are bashing Obama, sabotoging his bills...this guy will be bashed by his own republicans and the democrats.

 

[8wid]

Post Debate Interview - Ron Paul on booing over foreign policy and social security

 

[DACrowe]

The only candidate in the election that doesn't lie, doesn't pander, stands by principle. Hard to argue with.

Custer also stood by his principles and unchanging view of natives. Still, doesn't really strike me as someone I wish I could have followed.

 

[Quetzal]

Well historians think Custer was drunk when he led his *ahem* last drunken stand. Principled drunk! Even better.