Discussion: Voting Rights and Election Law

[writer0327]

As you may or may not know, I am a recovering statistician. As such, I understand that there are variances in any and all populations, but distinct populations exist. When I think of the "black" or "brown" or whatever experience, I think "in general". Anyone who thinks "all" of anything thinks a certain way, doesn't understand human nature. Anyone who thinks factors don't generally affect how you see the world is blind.

Soooooo.....my take, as someone who grew up in an economically lower class household in LA, is that most of "us" don't see the police as our friend (I'm referencing George Floyd here just to make myself clear). To be clear....policing in this country is a huge issue that must be addressed.

I've already made my opinions about voting known so I'll skip being any more repetitive than I've already been.

"In general" has its place in stats, but when discussing race, that's how prejudiced opinions are formed. To say...."Based on their skin color, black people have had this particular experience, in general..." is just literal prejudice. By now, we should all understand that people are far more nuanced than their skin color and should leave such generalities out of the conversation.

 

[moviedoors]

"In general" has its place in stats, but when discussing race, that's how prejudiced opinions are formed. To say...."Based on their skin color, black people have had this particular experience, in general..." is just literal prejudice. By now, we should all understand that people are far more nuanced than their skin color and should leave such generalities out of the conversation.

This sounds like a faux-fancy way of saying "pointing out that the general black experience in America is a negative one is actually RACIST!'

 

[writer0327]

This sounds like a faux-fancy way of saying "pointing out that the general black experience in America is a negative one is actually RACIST!'

It's more along the lines of, when you meet a black person do you assume his/her experience in this country has been negative? If so, you've got a problem.

 

[Donner]

It's more along the lines of, when you meet a black person do you assume his/her experience in this country has been negative? If so, you've got a problem.

For the record, I never said negative.

But yeah I would assume their lived experience has been different from mine. Like I assume a white guy's experience has been different from mine.

My whole point was that people's skin colour and gender means their experiences in life will be different based on those factors (and other ones as well) and that we need to acknowledge and listen to those experiences, especially when their voice would normally be in the minority.

 

[writer0327]

For the record, I never said negative.

But yeah I would assume their lived experience has been different from mine. Like I assume a white guy's experience has been different from mine.

My whole point was that people's skin colour and gender means their experiences in life will be different based on those factors (and other ones as well) and that we need to acknowledge and listen to those experiences, especially when their voice would normally be in the minority.

I get what you're saying. I guess for me, I just see everyone's experience is different from mine because we're all unique and different, and I just leave it at that. Listen and acknowledge individual experiences...absolutely. But never assume. Heck, my life experience is far different than my brother's life experience, and we grew up in the same home with the same parents.

 

[Donner]

I get what you're saying. I guess for me, I just see everyone's experience is different from mine because we're all unique and different, and I just leave it at that. Listen and acknowledge individual experiences...absolutely. But never assume. Heck, my life experience is far different than my brother's life experience, and we grew up in the same home with the same parents.

To an extent. I grew up in a town of 60,000. My graduating class was 300 people. I can count on one hand the amount of students that were of a different ethnicity or race. From junior high to high school. The stories of our lives are very similar and very boring. We're all white from the same general background.

By contrast, my friend grew up in Montreal. She grew up eating halal food and recognizing different religious holidays in school. Her experiences differed from mine but more importantly, she was exposed to different cultures and viewpoints and that made all the difference in her outlook on life. But even though she can tell her stories, she can't experience the lives of the people that she grew up with.

That's what I'm getting at. And you are too because you just acknowledged that people have different experiences. Which means seeing people as just people isn't enough. We need to explore those experiences. But moreso, you can't look at a boardroom of old, white men and say "I'm sure they all have different experiences that are valuable." You need the diversity of people in there to really understand the viewpoints.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Its all pasta but... Spaghetti, elbow macaroni and bow ties are... Not the same exactly.

This is not hard unless someone is giving something(s) greater consideration or weight to something else than the truth that from slavery through Jim Crow and yes, today, the experiences that shape so very many African-American individuals and families (Which reverberate through CENTURIES of history...) ain't the same as those whose experience in America is NOT that.

The Sowells and Wests of the current age know the experiences, there is little chance they are unaware... But they give more consideration and weight to other things in Conservative culture and philosophy combined with frankly, head up their asses selfishness.

"Nothing in MY life proves a society wide systemic issue... Therefore it must be untrue or exaggerated."

 

[InCali]

"In general" has its place in stats, but when discussing race, that's how prejudiced opinions are formed. To say...."Based on their skin color, black people have had this particular experience, in general..." is just literal prejudice. By now, we should all understand that people are far more nuanced than their skin color and should leave such generalities out of the conversation.

I was generally staying out of this even though I think you're dead wrong in this discussion, but if you are saying "stats" is how prejudiced opinions are formed, that is one of the most ill formed opinions I've yet to read. It's true that statistics can be bent, but so can any branch of science. To ignore general trends is to ignore reality. Of COURSE there are differences within any group and those differences can be described in any number of ways; including using the word "nuanced". No one is saying people within any group are homogenous, but if you don't think people receive differential treatment based on gender, race, etc. and that this doesn't tend to have an effect on how they view the world, you're dreamin...

Leaving "generalities" out of a discussion of something like voting that, almost by definition, speaks to generalities is, well, silly. What you define as nuance, looks awfully close to a bell curve. WHY those nuances exist is another matter.

 

[writer0327]

I was generally staying out of this even though I think you're dead wrong in this discussion, but if you are saying "stats" is how prejudiced opinions are formed, that is one of the most ill formed opinions I've yet to read. It's true that statistics can be bent, but so can any branch of science. To ignore general trends is to ignore reality. Of COURSE there are differences within any group and those differences can be described in any number of ways; including using the word "nuanced". No one is saying people within any group are homogenous, but if you don't think people receive differential treatment based on gender, race, etc. and that this doesn't tend to have an effect on how they view the world, you're dreamin...

Leaving "generalities" out of a discussion of something like voting that, almost by definition, speaks to generalities is, well, silly. What you define as nuance, looks awfully close to a bell curve. WHY those nuances exist is another matter.

If you're using skin color to make determinations about who people are and what their experiences might be, you're prejudiced.

If you consistently make sweeping generalizations like "black and brown people don't know how to get on the Internet", you're prejudiced.

I said we should seek diversity of thought, not diversity of skin color. People are more nuanced than the color of their skin. I never once said that people don't receive differential treatment based on skin color, but I hope we all can agree its abhorrent to do so.

People who insist on keeping skin color in the forefront of the conversation are the biggest barrier to the racism problem. Don't assume who a person is, or what their experiences have been based on their skin color. It's insulting and its prejudiced. Stop leading with a person's race at every instance.

 

[InCali]

If you're using skin color to make determinations about who people are and what their experiences might be, you're prejudiced.

If you consistently make sweeping generalizations like "black and brown people don't know how to get on the Internet", you're prejudiced.

I said we should seek diversity of thought, not diversity of skin color. People are more nuanced than the color of their skin. I never once said that people don't receive differential treatment based on skin color, but I hope we all can agree its abhorrent to do so.

People who insist on keeping skin color in the forefront of the conversation are the biggest barrier to the racism problem. Don't assume who a person is, or what their experiences have been based on their skin color. It's insulting and its prejudiced. Stop leading with a person's race at every instance.

If you set up a straw man, punch it, and no one takes you seriously, did you really hit it?

I've neither said nor done any of the above.

 

[writer0327]

If you set up a straw man, punch it, and no one takes you seriously, did you really hit it?

I've neither said nor done any of the above.

Good. Then you're aces in my book.

And don't take the "you" statements directly, I was using "you" as an informal indefinite.

I just wanted to make plain my positions in regards to this entire discussion so there won't be any misunderstandings.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Something that can be compared to Jim Crow obviously suggests there is no such thing as systemic racism in the U.S.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Trump voter fraud claims target counties with more Black, Latino votes (December 2020)

We know why.

 

[InCali]

One word
Minimumfederalvotingstandards

I'm starting to like this technique.....

 

[CaptainWagner]

We are in DESPERATE need of passing the We The People Act and the John Lewis Voting Rights Restoration Act. If Congress doesn't take action NOW, the GOP is about to enshrine minority rule for years to come. 2022 is going to be the most suppressed election since the VRA passed if the Feds don't intervene.

And it's maddening that this is even possible. That in the year 2021, Republicans can openly scheme to make it harder for people to vote and half the country is on board with it.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Vox - The Republican revolt against democracy, explained in 13 charts

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

 

[Teelie]

As always when voter fraud is found it is inevitably a Republican.

 

[Sithborg]

As always, the cruelty is the point.

 

[Teelie]

And as always, the Republicans are gleefully cheering this kind of nonsense on. For a party that claims to be about "small government" they sure do like to meddle in the affairs of voters an awful lot.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

 

[galmorzu]

As someone in GA, I'm really, really concerned about all the hardcore voting crackdowns that are expected to start passing today. As someone with a bit of a health concern, the thought of standing for hours in a line terrifies me, which is why I voted by mail this past election cycle (November and in January). In fact, my local polling place was one on national news and even posted here on these boards as being a particularly terrible situation.

I'm assuming there's no hope in sight and we're basically screwed?