Discussion: WikiLeaks

[BlackLantern]

I remember reading an article a couple years back that 'Insomnia' was a popular film over there

 

[DACrowe]

And that's why I don't like Assange. He's not a whistleblower, he's an anarchist attention ****e. I think it's great when responsible people blow the whistle on things that are a true violation of even the most basic of morality and ethics, like this story and a few others, but Wikileaks' approach is that there should be no secrets in the world, and that's just plain not how the world can operate. Some things in the military need to be kept secret for safety reasons, even though there are also crimes that need to be known by the public so that we can hold those responsible accountable for their actions. It's in situations like that that a responsible person should take the story to the press, who are supposed to hold the government accountable by keeping the citizens informed of its activities.

We do not need people like Assange, though, who encourage people to leak to him whatever it is that people aren't supposed to know and then gleefully publishes it on his website. No matter what it is, as long as it's classified information it's fair game for distribution to the masses. He has zero responsibility and zero accountability, and that makes him as bad as the corrupt forces within the government that he claims he's an antidote for.

Agreed on Assange. He is an anarchist with a simplistic, naive view of the world who has a God complex and wants to be appraised for it.

I don't read his Leaks for that reason. If a major news story is found, someone will find it and turn it into an actual ongoing story. I have no interest in reading what amounts to classified gossip to bolster Assange's ego and self-importantce. But that's just me.

 

[doih]

If a major news story is found, someone will find it and turn it into an actual ongoing story. I have no interest in reading what amounts to classified gossip to bolster Assange's ego and self-importantce. But that's just me.

The problem is that there are precious few people with the ability or resources to expose govt corruption and human rights abuses in places like China, which was one of the things wikileaks was designed to do and has been doing from its inception.

wikileaks has existed years before it leaked the Afghan war diaries this summer and is crucial to dissident movements in a large number of countries.

 

[8Diagrams(WU)]

Assange is a straight up Anarchist who is way in over his head. Not to mention he is trying too hard to be a Bond villian with his underground server lair and poison pill garbage. Like with everything, extremes lead to loss of equlibrium and sustainability and we cant run of a completely transparent society because it will never hold up. The releasing of this type of info in this manner can have serious social and economic repercussions that could cost people their jobs, health lives, etc. There is information that should not be out there for the masses. If there are true injustices, they should be explored like real journalists do. This crap is just an ego feeding service for a complex lunatic.

 

[Darkness Falls]

assange is basically a bond villian mixed with jigsaw from the saw movies

 

[Marx]

He's definitely got the look!

 

[BlackLantern]

I don't see him as either of those....just a guy who thinks the world should be a certain way

I couldn't characterize him or what he's doing as good or evil

 

[Darkness Falls]

He's definitely got the look!

that he does

 

[Paroxysm]

US admits to primary responsibility for WikiLeaks fiasco
http://www.dawn.com/2010/12/10/us-admits-to-primary-responsibility-for-wikileaks-fiasco-2.html

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

The guy has some balls, that's all I have to say.

 

[chaseter]

I don't see him as either of those....just a guy who thinks the world should be a certain way

I couldn't characterize him or what he's doing as good or evil

Not to start a flame war or compare the two but Hitler thought the world should be a certain way.

I am really ambivalent on the issue. I think we need whistle blowers. But, I do agree that publishing names of informants and delicate matters like that is a bit wrong. There is a difference between exercising your freedoms and doing what is right. Take the Westboro Baptist Church for example. They can protest at Heath Ledger's funeral for playing a gay in Brokeback Mountain but that isn't necessarily the right thing to do.

 

[Bunker]

probably....we expect that kind of behavior from certain countries but not in our own house

You obviously don't know much about our country then.

 

[Paroxysm]

WikiLeaks has released far more damning info in the past. The Iraq War Logs, for example, record in gruesome detail the violence, torture and suffering unleashed on that country since it was invaded by the US in 2003. But there was no outrage about the security breach back then, just the smug arrogance of a superpower that knows that the world cares little about faceless children in the Middle East.

However, the release of the diplomatic cables touched a nerve with the global elite because they exposed the dirty underbelly of international relations. It's the machinations of soft power that people fear most.

There's something terrifying about the charmed civility of diplomatic deceit.

The world's powers know this and will do all they can to keep the rest of us suitably sedated against the reality of their plotting and scheming. Hence this outlandish scheme to ensnare Assange on trumped-up charges to prevent the world from waking up to the realities of global politics and power.

In the meantime, WikiLeaks soldiers on without Assange. It has vowed to continue releasing information into the public domain.

Assange's crime is upholding the principle of transparency and speaking truth to power. As one Twitter feed read, "We are all WikiLeaks." If WikiLeaks goes down, transparency and truth go with it.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/opinion/article808305.ece/Rock-star-of-the-internet

 

[Paroxysm]

Putin, UN defend WikiLeaks
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/12/09/wikileaks-putin-human-rights.html

 

[DACrowe]

The problem is that there are precious few people with the ability or resources to expose govt corruption and human rights abuses in places like China, which was one of the things wikileaks was designed to do and has been doing from its inception.

wikileaks has existed years before it leaked the Afghan war diaries this summer and is crucial to dissident movements in a large number of countries.

Fine. But I know WikiLeaks as the company that dishonestly edited a video to make it look like American troops killed Iraqi civilians that was taken out of context from a firefight where Americans died 10-20 minutes earlier and that the targets were carrying AK-47s. I also know WikiLeaks as the company that leaked hundreds of thousands of government documents not to reveal some massive abuse of power or government overreach...no, they did it just because they could do it and it would get them attention and hurt foreign relations around the world. I also know WikiLeaks as the company whose founder is charged with two counts of rape--ironic as his followers compare him to V (for Vendetta) and Mickael Blomkvist (from the novel Men Who Hate Women)--and who also is trying to blackmail any authority around the world with an encrypted time bomb to go off in the event of his incarceration or supposed assassination.

I'm not impressed.

 

[Paroxysm]

Fine. But I know WikiLeaks as the company that dishonestly edited a video to make it look like American troops killed Iraqi civilians that was taken out of context from a firefight where Americans died 10-20 minutes earlier and that the targets were carrying AK-47s. I also know WikiLeaks as the company that leaked hundreds of thousands of government documents not to reveal some massive abuse of power or government overreach...no, they did it just because they could do it and it would get them attention and hurt foreign relations around the world. I also know WikiLeaks as the company whose founder is charged with two counts of rape--ironic as his followers compare him to V (for Vendetta) and Mickael Blomkvist (from the novel Men Who Hate Women)--and who also is trying to blackmail any authority around the world with an encrypted time bomb to go off in the event of his incarceration or supposed assassination.

I'm not impressed.

Wikileaks did not edit the video themselves, their source did. Also those "targets" you speak of were actually Reuters journalists.

 

[Paroxysm]

I also know WikiLeaks as the company whose founder is charged with two counts of rape.
I'm not impressed.

Rape is being used in the Assange prosecution in the same way that women's freedom was used to invade Afghanistan. Wake up!

 

[Fading]

I haven't really posted in this section since the election, but do skim thru the comments as you guys have good discussions that help keep me informed. However this I guess is just a topic I feel strong enough on to pipe in on.

I'll admit that when it comes to politics I'm black & white, which probably is naive. The world is plenty screwed up, but only because we make it that way. Accepting and justifying grey and downright evil actions (see before mentioned 8 year old sex ring) so we can combat greater evils doesn't make it, or us right. It just makes the world that much ****ier. I'm 100% with everyone saying not to disclose anything that puts our troops in harms way. However should we just ignore and conceal our elected officials doing things any one of us would be sentenced for life over because we try to lump all government related secrets together as some imaginary packaged deal? Nothing should come out just in case something damaging could be in there? Our government should be allowed to act with impunity behind closed doors because it makes us safe? (Don't get me wrong, I love my country and it's ppl, hell, all my loved ones are here, but I also believe our elected officials should be responsible for their crimes like anyone else.)

If this same info was coming out about Iran, you'd see everyone calling for the website creators head instead cheering him. Speaking of which, why is everyone focusing on this guy so much? I know little of the guy, and he does sound like a *****e, but I think everyone hung up on him is missing the point. In fact I think instead of calling for his head, we the American people should be angry over the awful things our government employees are doing behind closed doors. I mean our government represents us, but we're fine with them keeping secrets, ruining our allies trust in us, and even willing to ask for a man's death, or life imprisonment to keep it that way?

Sometimes I think it's like Stolkholm syndrome. We've become so accustomed to big brother parenting us that we're afraid to do anything to jeopardise it. We forget that our country was founded by ppl who fought their own battles, literally, with founding fathers who probably would be speaking out against our government today. Instead we freely trade freedoms for comfort and security, and ignore baby steps towards silencing of freedoms.

I guess I don't see why we act like no info on the government should ever come out. Why it's a crime to post info showing government wrong doings, but the wrong doings themselves are overlooked. Especially when said wrong doings continue to slowly erode the world's view of us, and our allies trust in us. Any damage this does to the US's reputation will be because of actions taken by our government officials that deserve criticism. Would I rather our world image be squeeky clean, and this info be about Iran or North Korea's wrong doings? Sure, but it's not, and instead of getting hung up on the creator of some website who got lucky and got this info, while name calling him, and asking for his assassination, I think we should be taking advantage and use this opportunity to get a rare glimpse of what the ppl we trust with our lives, money, and freedoms are really doing.

 

[Bob ROARman!]

Yeah that's exactly the point. More of a big deal is being made on the intentions of the person leaking these high profile crimes than the crimes and the criminals that are committing them. It's bizarro world logic, but it doesn't surprise me.

Deep down, we have to find a way around it, to distract ourselves, whether we know that's what we are really doing or not. I think we have to because if we take it at face value, it's too much. Not everyone is ready to face it, we are all conditioned to believe in our country, to believe that even through all the bad decisions, all the turmoil and mistakes, our government really, at the heart of everything, does care for us and wouldn't be doing the kinds of crimes that you hear about other "savage, uncivilized" countries' governments do.

It's funny because at the same time, a lot of the same exact people that are calling what this a crime and focusing more on the act of the "leak" rather than a lot of the horrifying truths they are revealing, they are the same people that would like to see government cleaned up, to have the corrupt driven out, to have their crimes finally revealed.

 

[LOBO3315a]

The crimes and issues exposed by Wikileaks are bad, and should be reported as such.

The motivatons behind such exposures, however, are also bad. Had this been a guy that was doing this because he feels transparency and truth trump all, I wouldn't have an issue. His motivations aren't noble. He just wants to create strife, and is an avowed anarchist.

That article about Putin, and the UN doesn't suprise me. Chances are, he hasn't leaked anything out about Russia, because he wouldn't last 30 seconds after he did. I'm sure it would look like an 'accident' of course.

 

[Marx]

Putin, UN defend WikiLeaks
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/12/09/wikileaks-putin-human-rights.html

Putin's defense of this isn't surprising...but the UN is.

 

[Kelly]

The UN is a farce and Putin is a liar....


Just wait until they feed some really good stuff to the press about Putin.....all bets are off.

 

[Marx]

The UN is a farce and Putin is a liar....


Just wait until they feed some really good stuff to the press about Putin.....all bets are off.

Tell us how you really feel Kel!

 

[Bob ROARman!]

The crimes and issues exposed by Wikileaks are bad, and should be reported as such.

The motivations behind such exposures, however, are also bad. Had this been a guy that was doing this because he feels transparency and truth trump all, I wouldn't have an issue. His motivations aren't noble. He just wants to create strife, and is an avowed anarchist.

The motivations? You know what happens when you try to play it the "right way" and reveal these horrific government crimes by going through channels that they control? One way or another you get silenced or ignored. People don't even know you exist, people wouldn't know if you were here today, gone tomorrow. People today don't know about the Karen Silkwood's, the Sherry Jackson's, the Paul Bonnaci's, the John DeCamp's or the Sibel Edmonds' of the world. How people like them worked and suffered, and died in a lot of cases, for years and years to try and get the truth out on any number of topics, to try and do everything the right way, to try and let Justice take it's course, hoping that the right thing would be done eventually, but only getting a cold shoulder or, for example, radiation poisoning.

There are no statues of them, no movies, no ******** CNN Hero of the Year nominations for any of these people. No, they may as well not have even existed the way they were treated when they brought evidence and raised flags about some of the most appalling crimes being committed in and with members of some of the highest ranking offices of government and business. Truth poses a threat to them, you will get little to no where going that route.

And because of that failure in the system, the majority of the people don't know about groups like the Rand Corporation or the Church Committee or COINTELPRO or MK-ULTRA. Sephardi kids of almost an entire generation being treated like guinea pigs for atomic experiments in the Ringworm Children or orphans and adopted foster children being forced into sex slavery in a nationwide pedophile ring involving high ranking government officials in the Franklin Scandal. We don't know about any of these things, information that should be widely distributed just so people are simply AWARE of what kind of organizations you're dealing with, aware of the kind of people you say you want to bring down.

So if some guy, who's motivation isn't "noble" (and by this point, what the **** is noble when it comes to dealing with this stuff, by now that word ceases to have any merit) decides to just release the information without going through being stalled for a decade or more in court proceedings, which bankrupts anyone, and/or being legally gagged and unable to speak about the things he/she know to ANYONE, and/or maybe being victim in the always classic "one-car sleeping-driver accident" or plane crash(whichever one is more convenient).

No, I say go ahead and just continue to release the info and skip all that horse**** because we'll probably be dead by the time any of it "officially unsealed" the way some people here want it done. I mean, everyone's already under the impression that they "have to wait" another 7 years (after already waiting 46 years) to finally get the "truth" of the JFK assassination when most don't know that there was already a second investigation done in the late 70's that concluded that it was most likely a conspiracy involving the mob and the CIA complete with a deathbed confession with one of the agents involved.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The UN is a farce and Putin is a liar....


Just wait until they feed some really good stuff to the press about Putin.....all bets are off.

He'll make Assange "disappear" and Medvedev will be used as a scapegoat if that happens.