Discussion: WikiLeaks

[BlackLantern]

yup

 

[DACrowe]

Rape is being used in the Assange prosecution in the same way that women's freedom was used to invade Afghanistan. Wake up!

I'll wait to see what the courts decide one way or the other about his guilt. But the women who accused him of the crime are left progressive activists, one of whom has written articles on feminism. Not quite the sounds of government stooges, though conspiracy theorists don't give a **** about the details.

And we invaded Afghanistan because al-Qaeda planned the 9/11 attacks from there and Osama bin Laden was in hiding in those borders. That has nothing to do with the (awful) execution of that war. But that was the reasoning, not women's rights. If you want to purport your conspiracies at least go for the most logical one (WMDs and Iraq). Be serious.

 

[DACrowe]

Wikileaks did not edit the video themselves, their source did. Also those "targets" you speak of were actually Reuters journalists.

Wikileaks had the full video that they posted later under the edited one to maximize (and mislead) the impact. They again failed to report that a fire fight occurred blocks away where Americans died and some of the men on the streets were carrying AK-47s (which they still chose to not to emphasize).

What happened was tragic, but WikiLeaks framed it in a way to make the US military look absolutely evil and vicously attacking the innocent. The journalists' deaths are tragic, but that wasn't the point. The point was that the US military is evil--hence how the story was presented.

 

[LOBO3315a]

Spoiler

The motivations? You know what happens when you try to play it the "right way" and reveal these horrific government crimes by going through channels that they control? One way or another you get silenced or ignored. People don't even know you exist, people wouldn't know if you were here today, gone tomorrow. People today don't know about the Karen Silkwood's, the Sherry Jackson's, the Paul Bonnaci's, the John DeCamp's or the Sibel Edmonds' of the world. How people like them worked and suffered, and died in a lot of cases, for years and years to try and get the truth out on any number of topics, to try and do everything the right way, to try and let Justice take it's course, hoping that the right thing would be done eventually, but only getting a cold shoulder or, for example, radiation poisoning.

There are no statues of them, no movies, no ******** CNN Hero of the Year nominations for any of these people. No, they may as well not have even existed the way they were treated when they brought evidence and raised flags about some of the most appalling crimes being committed in and with members of some of the highest ranking offices of government and business. Truth poses a threat to them, you will get little to no where going that route.

And because of that failure in the system, the majority of the people don't know about groups like the Rand Corporation or the Church Committee or COINTELPRO or MK-ULTRA. Sephardi kids of almost an entire generation being treated like guinea pigs for atomic experiments in the Ringworm Children or orphans and adopted foster children being forced into sex slavery in a nationwide pedophile ring involving high ranking government officials in the Franklin Scandal. We don't know about any of these things, information that should be widely distributed just so people are simply AWARE of what kind of organizations you're dealing with, aware of the kind of people you say you want to bring down.

So if some guy, who's motivation isn't "noble" (and by this point, what the **** is noble when it comes to dealing with this stuff, by now that word ceases to have any merit) decides to just release the information without going through being stalled for a decade or more in court proceedings, which bankrupts anyone, and/or being legally gagged and unable to speak about the things he/she know to ANYONE, and/or maybe being victim in the always classic "one-car sleeping-driver accident" or plane crash(whichever one is more convenient).

No, I say go ahead and just continue to release the info and skip all that horse**** because we'll probably be dead by the time any of it "officially unsealed" the way some people here want it done. I mean, everyone's already under the impression that they "have to wait" another 7 years (after already waiting 46 years) to finally get the "truth" of the JFK assassination when most don't know that there was already a second investigation done in the late 70's that concluded that it was most likely a conspiracy involving the mob and the CIA complete with a deathbed confession with one of the agents involved.

There's so much wrong with that point of view. that I can't even begin....maybe I should start with where you are right.

Yes, getting to the truth of an issue takes time. The reason it takes time is because most people don't want to believe bad things, not because of a conspiracy to cover things up. It's human nature to exaggerate, so a natural response is to say "No way!"

In several of the situations you use as examples, there are highly implausable (not impossible) circumstances. Ritual Satanic murders of child prostitutes in the midwest linked to political figures? Where did the bodies go? Did Satan dispose of them?

See that's the problems with conspiracies. They are like an inverted pyramid. They require more and more work to believe in, the deeper in you delve. Pretty soon, you are expected to believe in something fantastical, to support it all. Chances are there's a far more mundane explanation (Fell asleep at the wheel, income tax fraud, wants attention, wants attention, disgruntled ex-employee, or an former Marine who was a really good shot).

That's why it's best to vette those ideas through the established process. This way the pyramid isn't inverted, but has a stable base.

 

[BlackLantern]

i said something similar earlier that the truth isn't always so "sexy"...granted a big worldwide cabal/conspiracy puts a face on all the evil in the world but its hardly ever that "simple"

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/10/ron-paul-wikileaks-defense_n_795014.html

Ron Paul Defends WikiLeaks On House Floor

 

[BlackLantern]

cool....but he's never going to move higher than his office saying stuff like that on the House floor

 

[Paroxysm]

Wikileaks had the full video that they posted later under the edited one to maximize (and mislead) the impact. They again failed to report that a fire fight occurred blocks away where Americans died and some of the men on the streets were carrying AK-47s (which they still chose to not to emphasize).

What happened was tragic, but WikiLeaks framed it in a way to make the US military look absolutely evil and vicously attacking the innocent. <br><br>The journalists' deaths are tragic, but that wasn't the point. The point was that the US military is evil--hence how the story was presented.

They actually posted both so get your facts straight.

On the point of the versions of the video, they actually put out both versions simultaneously, the 39-minute version and the 17-minute version. They're both disturbing to watch, you know, no matter the guilt or innocence or combatant status or noncombatant status of the people in it. So it is accurate to say they put out an edited version, but only if you also mention they put an unedited version at the same time.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125731952

 

[StorminNorman]

The guy's in his 70's , he has no chance of moving to higher office period.

 

[doih]

That article about Putin, and the UN doesn't suprise me. Chances are, he hasn't leaked anything out about Russia, because he wouldn't last 30 seconds after he did. I'm sure it would look like an 'accident' of course.

Just wait until they feed some really good stuff to the press about Putin.....all bets are off.

He'll make Assange "disappear" and Medvedev will be used as a scapegoat if that happens.

Please inform yourselves of wikileaks' previous operations in dictatorial countries before spreading BS about how they're a bunch of internet tough guys who won't take on non democracies

Here, I'll make it easier:

Once again, I have to point out that many of wikileaks founding members are/were Chinese dissidents. The group has been operating since 2006 and primarily targetted China, though they also leaked/hacked and released info about Burmese, Kenyan, Sudanese, Iranian, etc. govts. Yes, they haven't done much with respect to Russia, but they've been operating in countries not exactly known for respecting human rights and allowing dissent for the last few years.

The problem is that there are precious few people with the ability or resources to expose govt corruption and human rights abuses in places like China, which was one of the things wikileaks was designed to do and has been doing from its inception.

wikileaks has existed years before it leaked the Afghan war diaries this summer and is crucial to dissident movements in a large number of countries.

 

[BlackLantern]

China is one thing, Russia is something else entirely....Putin had journalists taken out who were simply suspected of spreading dissent

no one is calling Assange or Wikileaks "cowards" or "internet tough guys", what we are saying is that with what has come out seems to cover a lot of territory, but we have seen next to nothing about Russia or Putin

 

[LOBO3315a]

Right, because those Chinese agents are truly something to behold...



Look, China's government is just trying to keep its population deaf, blind and mute. It doesn't really care about the outside world, other than making a buck.

Russia /=/ China

You mess with Putin, and something bad will happen to you. Former KGB, ya know.

 

[Paroxysm]

Right, because those Chinese agents are truly something to behold...

You failed in your attempt to make humor, try again.

 

[doih]

If you think China is worse than Russia or Russia is worse than China in terms of human rights, you're misinformed. They're basically the same- both countries regularly execute dissidents. To say that China is a joke compared to Russia is an insult to the thousands of people executed in China every year.

Oh, and those founding members of wikileaks that were part of Chinese dissident groups? The majority of them have been killed or imprisoned.

Also:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-plan-linked-Alexander-Lebedev-bank-raid.html

 

[BlackLantern]

if this continues to ramp up, and it looks that way, expect some questionable actions on all sides

 

[LOBO3315a]

If you think China is worse than Russia or Russia is worse than China in terms of human rights, you're misinformed. They're basically the same- both countries regularly execute dissidents. To say that China is a joke compared to Russia is an insult to the thousands of people executed in China every year.

Oh, and those founding members of wikileaks that were part of Chinese dissident groups? The majority of them have been killed or imprisoned.

But once again, they were inside the country. This guy isn't inside the borders of China, so chances are he's safe from being taken out by them.

Russia regurlarly works outside its own borders. They had agents that were in the U.S. up until last year. I'm sure they have agents that have blended into almost every nation's populace in the world. Wherever this guy winds up facing trial, I'm sure a Russian agent could take him out before he says "One gigabyte of data." That probably factors into what is 'leaked' on his site.

I'm not saying that one country is better or worse when it comes to human rights violations. I'm saying when it comes to cloak and dagger stuff, Russia pwns China.

 

[8Diagrams(WU)]

If you want to talk conspiracy, maybe you should consider that the rape charges could be a cover up to keep Assange protected under supervision. hell, I wouldnt put it above him to have this planned himself.

 

[enterthemadness]

I will say this.

Ron Paul is in office. And believes in the NWO being real. Thus, I imagine it is. Not to mention countless big shots being quoted mentioning it. Not that it is real, but mentioning a new world order.

Who knew George Carlin was anti nwo and anti govt?

That wikileaks HQ underground base is creepy. Bond villain scary.

 

[BlackLantern]

what if Ron Paul believed in Santa Claus?? would you subscribe to that too??

just because someone uses the words "new", "world", and "order" in the same sentence or in the same paragraph does NOT mean they are part of some intricate scheme to rule the world

watch this....hey I got a NEW watch today, I think its the best watch in the WORLD, it will help me keep my affairs in ORDER

 

[Kelly]

Santa Claus is real.....bucko.

 

[LOBO3315a]

If you want to talk conspiracy, maybe you should consider that the rape charges could be a cover up to keep Assange protected under supervision. hell, I wouldnt put it above him to have this planned himself.

Ohh that's a Adrian Veidt kind of intelligence working there...

 

[Fading]

what if Ron Paul believed in Santa Claus?? would you subscribe to that too??

just because someone uses the words "new", "world", and "order" in the same sentence or in the same paragraph does NOT mean they are part of some intricate scheme to rule the world

watch this....hey I got a NEW watch today, I think its the best watch in the WORLD, it will help me keep my affairs in ORDER

Holy ****!!!....



I need a new watch!



/BlackLantern's inadvertent attempt at subliminal messages backfired.

 

[enterthemadness]

what if Ron Paul believed in Santa Claus?? would you subscribe to that too??

just because someone uses the words "new", "world", and "order" in the same sentence or in the same paragraph does NOT mean they are part of some intricate scheme to rule the world

watch this....hey I got a NEW watch today, I think its the best watch in the WORLD, it will help me keep my affairs in ORDER

Santa is fake. Cmon now.

And your attempt is bad.

 

[doih]

But once again, they were inside the country.

Do we need to review the lists of journos, Tibetan supports, Falun Gong, etc. that are killed outside China in suspicious circumstances?

Russia regurlarly works outside its own borders. They had agents that were in the U.S. up until last year. I'm sure they have agents that have blended into almost every nation's populace in the world. Wherever this guy winds up facing trial, I'm sure a Russian agent could take him out before he says "One gigabyte of data." That probably factors into what is 'leaked' on his site.

So do the other 4 permanent members of the Security Council, Israel, the major NATO countries, and a couple dozen despotic regimes.

Here's a fun story: Back in the 70s China and Israel were having a tiff in Africa. So Chinese agents ambushed 2 Israeli Mossad agents, and fed them to crocodiles when they wouldn't give up any info. The Mossad station chief drove to the Chinese station and fired an RPG in retaliation.

If China was playing this game 40 years ago with a much weaker economy and military, what do you think they're up to now?

 

[Marx]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/10/ron-paul-wikileaks-defense_n_795014.html

Ron Paul Defends WikiLeaks On House Floor

cool....but he's never going to move higher than his office saying stuff like that on the House floor

Yeah, things like this is why Ron Paul is easily dismissed in the eyes of the public. I believe he's a good guy and he has some great ideas, but he has a tendency to go a little too far 'out there'.