Disney's Frozen

[Two-Face=Badass]

I don't understand this argument. Disney has produced 3 very strong films in a row. People are really surprised this is getting strong early reviews? Why suddenly start hating when they are seemingly back in their stride?

For me, it is because the story they are choosing to adapt is perfect for a film adaptation, just ripe with possibilities and beauty on the silver screen. But they've taken it and added a cutesy snow character, made most of the cast male, and Tanglerised it.

Now I don't mind the Tangled formula. I very much loved that film, but my problem is that The Snow Queen is more than that. So much more, and it is one of the few properties that defies the regular formula of love interests in favour of a moving platonic friendship, and is one of those rare stories in which the cast is majority female, instead of male. To see that changed is heart-rending.

 

[Lord]

What early reviews?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

For me, it is because the story they are choosing to adapt is perfect for a film adaptation, just ripe with possibilities and beauty on the silver screen. But they've taken it and added a cutesy snow character, made most of the cast male, and Tanglerised it.

Now I don't mind the Tangled formula. I very much loved that film, but my problem is that The Snow Queen is more than that. So much more, and it is one of the few properties that defies the regular formula of love interests in favour of a moving platonic friendship, and is one of those rare stories in which the cast is majority female, instead of male. To see that changed is heart-rending.

The Tangled look is their new animation style. That is how their films are going to look like now.

To look at a Disney film and then cry "They changed the source material" is almost ridiculous. It is what they do. They did it with Snow White, they did it with "Beauty and the Beast", they did it with "Aladdin", they did it with "The Little Mermaid", Rapunzel, so on and so forth and for their efforts they have made classic films. Why would they stop doing that?

What early reviews?

More like reactions. They are in this thread.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

The Tangled look is their new animation style. That is how their films are going to look like now.

To look at a Disney film and then cry "They changed the source material" is almost ridiculous. It is what they do. They did it with Snow White, they did it with "Beauty and the Beast", they did it with "Aladdin", they did it with "The Little Mermaid", Rapunzel, so on and so forth and for their efforts they have made classic films. Why would they stop doing that?

So your defence against criticism of this formula is to say that that it is irrelevant because of the formula? I do not appreciate appeals to circular logic, nor writing off criticism simply because the problems are deeply entrenched and endemic. Disney wreaks havoc upon classic tales. Sometimes it improves upon them, such as with Mulan, but this is rare. Sometimes the product is changed but remains good, such as with Tangled. But there is something deeply problematic about taking a fairly feminist story that focuses upon female characters, and shoving it into a formula that dilutes this. The fact that they continue to do this does not make criticism ridiculous, it in fact makes it more relevant.

 

[Octoberist]

Then weeks later you'll be at the theater seeing Frozen for the 5th time.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So your defence against criticism of this formula is to say that that it is irrelevant because of the formula? I do not appreciate appeals to circular logic, nor writing off criticism simply because the problems are deeply entrenched and endemic. Disney wreaks havoc upon classic tales. Sometimes it improves upon them, such as with Mulan, but this is rare. Sometimes the product is changed but remains good, such as with Tangled. But there is something deeply problematic about taking a fairly feminist story that focuses upon female characters, and shoving it into a formula that dilutes this. The fact that they continue to do this does not make criticism ridiculous, it in fact makes it more relevant.

When I say formula, I mean telling these tales with a Disney twist. It is what they do and to expect them to do anything else is bizarre. They are Disney. Why would they stop making Disney style films?

To claim the formula dilutes the tale before seeing the film is ridiculous considering the track record. The formula doesn't simply work, it works on the all time, generation after generation of kids have grown up loving these classic films. That you dismiss the film because a child's film might have less of a "feminist" slate just because they have added male characters is fairly short-sighted and also ignores the fact that these films are built to appeal to both young girls and young boys.

This is how I see. To look at the footage and knowing Disney's track record, how could anyone really expect this to be terrible? That people are surprised the film is being praised, at least early, is more surprising then the film ending up good. It is like expecting a Scorsese film to be bad. It is nonsensical imo.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Then weeks later you'll be at the theater seeing Frozen for the 5th time.

My Disney record is "Beauty and the Beast". Considering it re-releases, I have probably seen it 6 or 7 times in theaters.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

That people are surprised the film is being praised, at least early, is more surprising then the film ending up good. It is like expecting a Scorsese film to be bad. It is nonsensical imo.

It seems our views are irreconcilable, given our oppositional stances on the quality of some Disney films, and on the benefits of formula.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It seems our views are irreconcilable, given our oppositional stances on the quality of some Disney films, and on the benefits of formula.

Which films? Are you telling me you don't think the classic or Renaissance films are good?

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Which films? Are you telling me you don't think the classic or Renaissance films are good?

Not all, no. Some are fantastic. Many in fact. The Little Mermaid I do not care for, and find it to have some very strange morals.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Not all, no. Some are fantastic. Many in fact. The Little Mermaid I do not care for, and find it to have some very strange morals.

What are strange about its morals?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

By the way here is a review from a "feminist" angle.

Be warned, spoilers.

http://www.depthoffieldmagazine.com...rspective-disneys-frozen-defies-expectations/

I was particularly worried because I knew this was going to be a “princess movie,” and historically, Disney Princesses do little more than anger me. Add in the marketing, and it all seemed to scream out “it’s princesses, but don’t worry, there’s lots of boy stuff, too!” Disney movies are the epitome of gender stereotyping, and I really felt — based on the pandering trailer and signage — that this was going to be the worst.

And so it is with great surprise, and even greater joy, that I can say that this movie was exciting, adventurous, and nearly flawlessly feminist. I went with a group of boys and girls, ages 6 through 10, and all of them proclaimed it “the best movie ever.” The boys didn’t have the impression that it was a girly movie, and the girls felt empowered by the characters, the relationships, and the story itself.

And some Olaf love.

Even that snowman — the typical ridiculous Disney sidekick — even the snowman was a joy to watch. I generally loathe those comic-relief characters, possibly because I am a complete curmudgeon, but Olaf the snowman was really and truly funny. I found myself laughing out loud and clapping my hands like a toddler whenever he came on the screen. He was absolutely delightful. And believe me, that’s not a word I toss around lightly.

 

[X Knight]

My Disney record is "Beauty and the Beast". Considering it re-releases, I have probably seen it 6 or 7 times in theaters.

My Disney ( and cinema ) record is Little Mermaid. I lost track, but I saw it in the theaters north of 10 times. I'd say probably around 14 or 15 times.

I..........had a MAJOR crush on Ariel when I was young.........

 

[DarthSkywalker]

My Disney ( and cinema ) record is Little Mermaid. I lost track, but I saw it in the theaters north of 10 times. I'd say probably around 14 or 15 times.

I..........had a MAJOR crush on Ariel when I was young.........

Thanks to Ariel, I never understood why you don't simply fall in love with all red headed women on sight.

 

[X Knight]

By the way here is a review from a "feminist" angle.

Be warned, spoilers.

http://www.depthoffieldmagazine.com...rspective-disneys-frozen-defies-expectations/



And some Olaf love.

very nice!!

and I'll also add this. I have found myself enjoying these Disney films much more as an adult than I did as a kid.

I really do think you appreciate the story and characters more as an adult. not to mention all the technical details.

Like with Tangled, on repeat viewings, one thing I found myself doing was paying attention to the eye movements, facial expressions, body language, and other nuances when the characters were speaking.

I was very impressed with the level of detail there and you'll be amazed at how you notice something new each time you watch it.

even with the new Frozen clips, like the "Party is Over" I was watching the eyes and facial expressions of Elsa and Anna.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

very nice!!

and I'll also add this. I have found myself enjoying these Disney films much more as an adult than I did as a kid.

I really do think you appreciate the story and characters more as an adult. not to mention all the technical details.

Like with Tangled, on repeat viewings, one thing I found myself doing was paying attention to the eye movements, facial expressions, body language, and other nuances when the characters were speaking.

I was very impressed with the level of detail there and you'll be amazed at how you notice something new each time you watch it.

even with the new Frozen clips, like the "Party is Over" I was watching the eyes and facial expressions of Elsa and Anna.

At different stages in life you appreciate different things. What I love about Disney and Pixar is that they truly do feel timeless to me. There is always something there no matter your age imo.

 

[X Knight]

Thanks to Ariel, I never understood why you don't simply fall in love with all red headed women on sight.

that's weird, because in general, out of all the hair colors, I don't find myself attracted to red heads.

I........have a thing...........for blondes.

Maybe that's why I'm so interested in Elsa.....lol. FINALLY, we're getting a blonde, blue eye princess!

Rapunzel was cute and adorable, and she's blonde......except she really isn't.....and she has green eyes. But I really have a hard time seeing Rapunzel as anything other than a blonde........lol

But, I love the name Ariel. I think it's a really pretty name for a girl ( even though it's technically a boy's name ). If I ever have a daughter, Ariel or Arielle would be a name I'd consider. Elsa is also a pretty name.

 

[X Knight]

At different stages in life you appreciate different things. What I love about Disney and Pixar is that they truly do feel timeless to me. There is always something there no matter your age imo.

exactly!! t:

 

[DarthSkywalker]

that's weird, because in general, out of all the hair colors, I don't find myself attracted to red heads.

I........have a thing...........for blondes.

Maybe that's why I'm so interested in Elsa.....lol. FINALLY, we're getting a blonde, blue eye princess!

Rapunzel was cute and adorable, and she's blonde......except she really isn't.....and she has green eyes. But I really have a hard time seeing Rapunzel as anything other than a blonde........lol

But, I love the name Ariel. I think it's a really pretty name for a girl ( even though it's technically a boy's name ). If I ever have a daughter, Ariel or Arielle would be a name I'd consider. Elsa is also a pretty name.

It was between Ariel and Belle for my niece. I am not even joking. t:

 

[X Knight]

It was between Ariel and Belle for my niece. I am not even joking. t:

so which name won out?? lol

 

[DarthSkywalker]

so which name won out?? lol

While my sister is a Little Mermaid girl, when my niece arrived, my mother and I won. She just looks like a Belle.

 

[X Knight]

While my sister is a Little Mermaid girl, when my niece arrived, my mother and I won. She just looks like a Belle.

great!! t:

Belle is a pretty name as well. And Belle is an awesome princess.......

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I am pretty sure Belle and Winona Ryder shaped my taste in women.

On another note, cast interviews.

[YT]?v=y91UKHMUSmE[/YT]

[YT]?v=aulG40VP_fo[/YT]

[YT]?v=4te9jwJkpUk[/YT]

[YT]?v=JxOvOmg6t0c[/YT]

[YT]?v=e-7UYxYAILw[/YT]

[YT]?v=BL2sIQa4wPs[/YT]

 

[X Knight]

I am pretty sure Belle and Winona Ryder shaped my taste in women.

lol.

it's funny though.......how as you get older the qualities in a woman that you value change and how that's even reflected in what Disney princesses you like........

Like when you're young, you probably place more importance on beauty and looks. Ariel is so pretty and hot. She's like the hot, stunning supermodel you pine after and want to date.

But as you get older, you look for other qualities. Perhaps that's why, when I rewatched Beauty and the Beast as an adult, I really appreciated the character of Belle. much more than I ever did as a kid.

Belle is beautiful ( duh ) but she's also kind, mature, smart, caring and compassionate. Unlike Ariel, who essentially put her needs/desires ahead of everyone else's, Belle sacrificed her desires and freedom to save her father.

Belle would be the type of woman you'd want to bring home to meet mom and dad, and settle down with and marry.

And Rapunzel.........well.........she's Rapunzel.....lol. She's the adorable girl-next-door type. Despite her circumstances, she's bubbly, up beat, energetic, and full of life, hope, and optimism. You can't help but smile when you're around her and she'll brighten your day like of a ray of sunshine ( she does have the power of the sun in her hair, after all ).

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So what you are saying is Disney Princesses are like Apps. There is one for every situation.

I am very excited about the comparisons to "Beauty and the Beast". One of the reasons I love it so much is how it flips the Disney/classical fairy tale formula on its head and it seems that "Frozen" does this as well.