Django Unchained - Part 1

[Mike_D202]

Hey, I'm native american, I wanna get in on this "our people got it worse than your people" argument!!

Just kidding. Merry Christmas.

 

[Bruce Malone]

The Holocaust was more compact and over a short number of years, many people died, but it was not "much worse" than slavery.

Slavery robbed the dignity of entire generations of people, demolished their self-esteem, and treated human lives as worthless. No doubt, given the hundred of years it was practiced, more people died as a result of slavery than in the Holocaust.

Both slavery and the Holocaust were horrible atrocities based on destructive ideologies. I understand if Spike Lee feels that this movie is a mockery of the real pain that was endured in those times.

However I think Tarantino is a great filmmaker and I doubt his intent is to disrespect Spike Lee's ancestors. Tarantino's movies seem to center around revenge as of late featuring brutal poetice justice doled out to those who are brutal.

Treacherous assassins, psychopaths, Nazi soldiers, and slavemasters all get justice dispensed to them in extrememly violent ways and the catharsis associated with that combined with intense dialogue and offbeat humor is part of what makes Tarantino so great at what he does.

Don't get me started on Lee I know his deal. He has personal beef with tarrantino going back years where he's called him out on putting the n word in his scripts from awhile back. Not to mention he has seems to have personal issues with white directors taking on projects about black history. This goes back to Malcolm X which was orginally to be directed by a white director.

As for the holocaust vs slavery discussion they are both tragedy's and this is not a contest to be won by either. No one won in either in real life.

However i do believe the holocaust to be the worst atrocity of human history. In the end it was killing a people purely for the sake of it. Unlike slavery there was no "end game" whereby it was to exploit a people for the sake of profit no matter the cost to the people.

The end game in the holocaust was just that we don't want jews to exist on earth period. The germans gained nothing by killing jews in fact it cost them a lot arguably. Which probably makes it the most incomprehensible atrocity in history.

Slavery was terrible but we can understand what motivated the perpetrators, sheer greed. As bad as the slavers were they still wanted blacks to exist even if for greedy purposes. For the Nazis the reasons were so intangible as to why they needed a whole people dead who were posing them no threat at all. Evil purely for the sake of it essentially.

 

[Pink Ranger]

In any director vs. director dispute, I will take Tarantino's side over Lee's side any day of the week, but I will admit that Lee has a point over the n-word situation. I think it makes sense for the word to be used often in Django Unchained, but yeah, with QT's other movies, to paraphrase Donald Glover (I think), QT seems to me to be one of those guys who, when he permits himself to use that word, just "leans into it" a little more.

 

[jacobed]

I basically agree with the Spill crew completely on this movie. It's great up until about halfway through and then it just falls completely. He needs an editor who will stand up to him and tell him no this needs to be cut. This movie is way too long for no reason. Leonardo Dicaprio is the only reason the second half is at least tolerable. Ugh did not like this at all even though I wanted to do badly. 6/10

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Well, this is his first film since he lost Sally (RIP). That might explain the less than ideal editing of the piece. Perhaps Fred Raskin, Tarrantino's new editor, hasn't got the feel for the rhythm of Tarrantino's script yet. Glancing over at IMDB, he is an up and comer with an unimpressive resume that includes three Fast and Furious movies. That might be good for Tarrantino as he can basically control everything Fred does and mold him into his personal editor.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, this is his first film since he lost Sally (RIP). That might explain the less than ideal editing of the piece. Perhaps Fred Raskin, Tarrantino's new editor, hasn't got the feel for the rhythm of Tarrantino's script yet. Glancing over at IMDB, he is an up and comer with an unimpressive resume that includes three Fast and Furious movies. That might be good for Tarrantino as he can basically control everything Fred does and mold him into his personal editor.

Tarantino's films in general have editing and pacing problems imo. The two exceptions being Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown. I doesn't feel like a new thing to me and they still succeed at being really entertaining.

 

[terry78]

QT is known for just being a very hodge podge director, so it's not really a shock.

 

[Octoberist]

QT doesn't know how to hold back as of late. Thats why I wish he had Roger Avery there to tell him no. That being said, bloated QT with Yes Men is still better than bloated George Lucas with Yes Men.

 

[jacobed]

Of course because it only makes perfect sense to blast Lucas out of blue and I've seen Death Proof so I disagree with you big time

 

[Marvolo]

Ive always thought QT films had crap editing when compared to other films. They are unique with their chapter titles and general layout, but I dont particularly go gaga over how they are edited. So honestly Im not surprised this film still has problems.

Inglorious Basterds is my favorite QT movie. Is Django like it or his older stuff?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Don't get me started on Lee I know his deal. He has personal beef with tarrantino going back years where he's called him out on putting the n word in his scripts from awhile back. Not to mention he has seems to have personal issues with white directors taking on projects about black history. This goes back to Malcolm X which was orginally to be directed by a white director.

As for the holocaust vs slavery discussion they are both tragedy's and this is not a contest to be won by either. No one won in either in real life.

However i do believe the holocaust to be the worst atrocity of human history. In the end it was killing a people purely for the sake of it. Unlike slavery there was no "end game" whereby it was to exploit a people for the sake of profit no matter the cost to the people.

The end game in the holocaust was just that we don't want jews to exist on earth period. The germans gained nothing by killing jews in fact it cost them a lot arguably. Which probably makes it the most incomprehensible atrocity in history.

Slavery was terrible but we can understand what motivated the perpetrators, sheer greed. As bad as the slavers were they still wanted blacks to exist even if for greedy purposes. For the Nazis the reasons were so intangible as to why they needed a whole people dead who were posing them no threat at all. Evil purely for the sake of it essentially.

I dunno. I'd prefer someone just execute me and burn my body than enslave me, my children, my grand children, and my great grand children for our entire lives and have all of us endure a lifetime of misery and humiliation.

Some things are worse than death.

 

[terry78]

Yeah, I despise even getting into the argument but Jews still have their legacy and know where they're technically from. My ancestry is just all ****ed up.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

BTW

I'm not arguing that The Holocaust was not tragic. Only that slavery was equally severe in a different way.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Yeah, I despise even getting into the argument but Jews still have their legacy and know where they're technically from. My ancestry is just all ****ed up.

I know it's silly to have the Holocaust versus slavery pissing contest but I won't just watch people trivialize what slaves endured and suffered through.

I don't think enough people imagine what it would be like to enslaved and degraded for an entire lifetime. They think free food and free shelter and forget about the whips, psychological/physical torment, rape, rotten scraps to eat, humiliation, destitution, etc.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Are we really trying to quantify the evil of various historical events in this thread?

 

[Motown Marvel]

Cavemen had it real bad under the reign of dinosaur. And how many Chinese people have been killed by Godzilla?

 

[Brain Damage]

I just saw this and man, it kicked all sorts of ass.
I thought Inglourious Basterds dragged on in several spot but this one just flew by for me. Is it better? Right now I want to say yes, but I need to give it another watching before I can be sure. Either way, Tarantino did not disappoint, in fact, he hit another one out of the park.

Second favorite film of the year after Lincoln for me. Interesting that both are period pieces dealing with slavery, though of course, do so in very different ways.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It will be hard to beat Inglorious Basterds for me.

I thought it was the best QT movie since Pulp Fiction.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Are we really trying to quantify the evil of various historical events in this thread?

I'm not trying to quantify anything only convince some that slavery was an atrocity on the level of the Holocaust.

 

[Bruce Malone]

I'm not trying to quantify anything only convince some that slavery was an atrocity on the level of the Holocaust.

This is not the place to really debate these things but just in your point about preferring a "quick" death or quicker as opposed to a life of slavery.

For those in the camps there was nothing quick about their deaths many of them were kept there for years before being executed. Holocaust survivors who survived the camps pretty much had to live with the trauma for the rest of their lives. I personally know this from relatives of mine.

In the end there is only one holocaust that is where the name comes from. So i disagree with spike referring to another incident by that same name. Slavery was a tragedy but it serves no one to try to compare it directly with other tragedies by giving it another tragedy's name.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I'm not trying to quantify anything only convince some that slavery was an atrocity on the level of the Holocaust.

The "same level" doesn't entail quantification?

 

[Pink Ranger]

Cavemen had it real bad under the reign of dinosaur. And how many Chinese people have been killed by Godzilla?

Come on, man, everyone knows Godzilla attacked mainly Cambodians.

 

[gwynplaine]

Even if the film could easily have lost half an hour, it's still pretty awesome and all the actors are great in it.

"I like the way you die."

 

[chaseter]

The strange thing about Spike Lee is that he's actually a very smart guy, but his experiences growing up in the Civil Rghts era and in the post Civil Rights era has made him sensitive to issues regarding how African Americans are portrayed.

I like Spike Lee, but there are many moments that he puts his foot in his mouth though.

He is a smart man but he is a race baiter. Spike loves racism. He usually reverts back to it when he is trying to be controversial. The last one I can think of before this was when he critiqued Clint Eastwood and responded by saying that he can say whatever because we aren't on a plantation.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Are we really trying to quantify the evil of various historical events in this thread?

Genghis Khan was a better human being than Tamerlane because he was less inhumanly brutal. Hurray.