Sequels Do we really have that many villains left?

TheGraphicsGuy said:
To be honest, I don't think Carnage will ever be in the Spidey movies. He is too violent. You think how many kids have watched the Spiderman films. Millions. I don't think whoever the current Director is at the time is that stupid to put a violent, blood-thirsty villain in the film and make it a 15/18 certificate etc.

The only way to get around this is to make Carnage as soft as Venom in SM3 which everyone would disagree to because as we all know, Carnage has always been a freaky, violent creature. I mean, it's Cletus Kasady, a serial killer for god sake. That kinda guy with symbiote use is going to be at least 10x more violent.
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evil sick and sadistic. well green goblin tried to kill a bunch of kids. there are ways to pull of the story without making it rated R. Remember Wolverine is just as violent as Carnage. hes' just not evil. And they did show Wolverine stick his claws right through a guy's chest in part 2.

they dont' have to show Carnage mutilating civillains, because remember Venom or Spider-Man will always be there to prevent that from taking place.
 
There are plenty of villains left to use, some deserve more screentime/effort than others, but there are plenty to pick from:

The Lizard
The Scorpion
Rhino
Shocker
Vulture (who i personally dont ever want to see in a movie)

And these are just from the cartoon. I imagine there are more to choose from in the comics.
 
I think that thers enough villains, maybe not big time villains but enough for 3 more films :)
 
Vaportrail said:
....
SM4 - Lizard + 1 villain. Prolly Kraven. Introduce Felicia Hardy, friend to Gwen Stacy. Death of Captain Stacy, during a fight between Spider-Man & the Lizard. This could be why Kraven comes to town, even....
-Vaportrail
Click to expand...
--- also QUOTE many discussions re: Sam Raimi's PP needing to learn more about himself and/or continue growing up---

Sorry - haven't been on the boards in awhile - so if I've ripped off someone's plot, politely slap me....

Although I thought SM1 and SM2 were better plotted/written than SM3, I did enjoy all 3 movies. With that being said, the similarities of the first 3 movies would get old quick in a 4th movie: Aunt May's speeches, Peter's on/off MJ relationship, the "crrrrazzzy villain", the NYC backgrounds and street thugs, and etc.

One way to dissolve all/most of that is to have Connors take Parker to the Florida everglades for a 3-week study at some specialty reptile lab for what could either be known or unknown to PP that Connors is trying to re-grow his arm. The movie could begin with him and MJ meeting Connors family (say for dinner) and then only those 2 flying to FL the next day. Think more sci-fi/mystery/thriller type movie (which is what SM3 should have been if they were going to have Venom). They need to spend probably 40 minutes from the onset building the plot up to the Lizard's first appearance in the movie. -- possibly during this time simultaneously mentioning Kraven's "publicized coming to america" (Florida) for "environmental education purposes" to those who "hate hunters" sort of a thing (or whatever - just make up something current here). - Possibly PP can't afford the Connors trip for that long and Jameson says he'll pay for 1/2 PP's trip if he also negotiates his time interviewing Kraven. - yes classic, old-school spidey. - so you could still have PP calling home having arguments with JJJ and/or MJ - OR NOT. This is the point, leave NYC out of this pic as much as possible and use the characters to tell the story, rather than the background to make up for a rushed and/or half*** script.

Kraven arrives the day after the lizard first appears and hears the reports of the Lizard and wants to kill it as it "endangers the locals." Plus he is an ego-maniac as any great hunter might be. PP knows the Lizard is Connors - or figures it out rather quickly and has to deal with the Kraven/Lizard situation. Needs to be done slightly horror/mystery/suspense. Yes - do the last hunt thing. Have kraven talking to himself about how he has never in his life seen two beasts (SM and Lizard) so worthy to be his prey, etc. Throughout the movie, see Kraven's transformation from a pretty much normal person (or as normal as a great ego-d skilled hunter can be) to a "madman killer".

Connors and PP could fly home at the end with PP and he discussing family and marriage (perhaps since many of you seem obsessed with this marriage thing), and maybe that happens - but if so, during the closing credits and no damage.

I love old-school spidey -but can't really see electro or vulture in the next movie. Actually, if Lizard/Kraven were in SM4, my SM5 would need to have Chameleon for the revenge factor, and perhaps he (or another character) could be used as a Ra's Al Ghul-type character to add to or supplement what could be a very interesting Chameleon - who always seemed like he'd be better on-screen than in the comic book pages. But I can't think of a definite 2nd villain. I'm sorry. I just can't see Electro or Vulture as movie Villains. I actually can think of Mysterio as one, but I can't think of a good enough plot (that wouldn't suck) to use him in. I think the Enforcers would be good subplot characters - or good henchmen for a major villain. Too bad they've used Punisher in his own movie. I love Goblin, but I'm goblin'd out.

Oh well - one movie at a time as they say. I just hope they make another one soon. - and yes, very, very sad re: Heath Ledger.:csad:
 
AVEITWITHJAMON said:
There are plenty of villains left to use, some deserve more screentime/effort than others, but there are plenty to pick from:

The Lizard
The Scorpion
Rhino
Shocker
Vulture (who i personally dont ever want to see in a movie)

And these are just from the cartoon. I imagine there are more to choose from in the comics.
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i would like to see the scorpion, i think it would be interesting, and yea no vulture
 
It is true that the New Goblin stance makes both Hob and Green Goblin legacies unusable in the films. It's time to use:

Kraven the Hunter: Lizard
Vulture: Electro
Scorpion: Mysterio
 
That'ssuper! said:
It is true that the New Goblin stance makes both Hob and Green Goblin legacies unusable in the films. It's time to use:

Kraven the Hunter: Lizard
Vulture: Electro
Scorpion: Mysterio
Click to expand...

I want Kraven and Lizard in 4. Other than that, movie versions of the other villains don't seem all that appealing IMO.
 
retswerb said:
Although I thought SM1 and SM2 were better plotted/written than SM3, I did enjoy all 3 movies. With that being said, the similarities of the first 3 movies would get old quick in a 4th movie: Aunt May's speeches, Peter's on/off MJ relationship, the "crrrrazzzy villain", the NYC backgrounds and street thugs, and etc.

One way to dissolve all/most of that is to have Connors take Parker to the Florida everglades for a 3-week study at some specialty reptile lab for what could either be known or unknown to PP that Connors is trying to re-grow his arm. The movie could begin with him and MJ meeting Connors family (say for dinner) and then only those 2 flying to FL the next day. Think more sci-fi/mystery/thriller type movie (which is what SM3 should have been if they were going to have Venom). They need to spend probably 40 minutes from the onset building the plot up to the Lizard's first appearance in the movie. -- possibly during this time simultaneously mentioning Kraven's "publicized coming to america" (Florida) for "environmental education purposes" to those who "hate hunters" sort of a thing (or whatever - just make up something current here). - Possibly PP can't afford the Connors trip for that long and Jameson says he'll pay for 1/2 PP's trip if he also negotiates his time interviewing Kraven. - yes classic, old-school spidey. - so you could still have PP calling home having arguments with JJJ and/or MJ - OR NOT. This is the point, leave NYC out of this pic as much as possible and use the characters to tell the story, rather than the background to make up for a rushed and/or half*** script.

Kraven arrives the day after the lizard first appears and hears the reports of the Lizard and wants to kill it as it "endangers the locals." Plus he is an ego-maniac as any great hunter might be. PP knows the Lizard is Connors - or figures it out rather quickly and has to deal with the Kraven/Lizard situation. Needs to be done slightly horror/mystery/suspense. Yes - do the last hunt thing. Have kraven talking to himself about how he has never in his life seen two beasts (SM and Lizard) so worthy to be his prey, etc. Throughout the movie, see Kraven's transformation from a pretty much normal person (or as normal as a great ego-d skilled hunter can be) to a "madman killer".

Connors and PP could fly home at the end with PP and he discussing family and marriage (perhaps since many of you seem obsessed with this marriage thing), and maybe that happens - but if so, during the closing credits and no damage.

I love old-school spidey -but can't really see electro or vulture in the next movie. Actually, if Lizard/Kraven were in SM4, my SM5 would need to have Chameleon for the revenge factor, and perhaps he (or another character) could be used as a Ra's Al Ghul-type character to add to or supplement what could be a very interesting Chameleon - who always seemed like he'd be better on-screen than in the comic book pages. But I can't think of a definite 2nd villain. I'm sorry. I just can't see Electro or Vulture as movie Villains. I actually can think of Mysterio as one, but I can't think of a good enough plot (that wouldn't suck) to use him in. I think the Enforcers would be good subplot characters - or good henchmen for a major villain. Too bad they've used Punisher in his own movie. I love Goblin, but I'm goblin'd out.
Click to expand...

Yeah, those are some pretty good ideas, and yes, the cliches from the past 3 Spider-Man movies need to be looked at to keep it from going stale, but I think that taking Spidey out of New York for an entire movie is a mistake.

I live in San Diego and even I love that Spider-Man is always in New York. Listen, he can't fly, he can't afford to build a Spider-Plane, he's basically a street-level hero, like Daredevil or Luke Cage. Taking him out of NY would be like a Batman movie with no Gotham, a Superman with no Metropolis. Yeah, Bats and Supes go international but at the end of the day, they always come home. Spidey is a New-Yorker, he was born there, and part of the draw of the movies is to see real New York from Spidey's point of view.

As for the other stuff, I personally think that Lizard can be done and transformed like 15-30 minutes in, not forty, that would kinda take a while. And if Kraven the Hunter's in Spider-Man 4, his origin needs to be closely tied to Lizard's, he shouldn't just kind of conviently show up at the same time. Kraven should show up to New York BECAUSE of a giant Lizard creature running amok. Then J.J.J. challenges Spidey to capture "the Lizard" before his personal bounty hunter "Kraven" can.

If they're multiple villains in the next movie, they're origins need to be closely tied together, no more random team-ups (like Sandman and Venom) and no more totally unrelated storylines (like Sandman and everyone else.) Of all the comic book villains that have ever been in or will ever be in a movie, Kraven and Lizard compliment each other so perfectly, that it's basically one villain, one threat.

But nice work trying to add new ideas to Spidey.
 
my perfect idea for spider-man 4. opening scene of the shocker (high-tech) robbing some museum or something that has great value. i think the idea behind breaking into a safe and stealing bags of cash is something that we dont' want to see everybody keep doing. so a nice comical action-packed opening to the movie. then we show where peter and mj are in their relationship since part 3. there needs to be a proper proposal and by the end of the movie they need to get married. i know some say that the best spider-man stories were before he gets married, but i beg to differ seeing as how they are re-writing how his life is. anyways, we introduce kraven the hunter and whatever his motivations are. peter realizes he needs more cash if he plans to move out with mj so he decides to pursue getting a job 'training' with dr conners in hopes of becoming a professor himself. of course the extra cash from the bugle for easy pictures never hurts. so this sets up more time with conners and leads up to him tampering with his dna. gwen could stil be a student in his and peters class but perhaps resents peter but has somewhat of a crush on spider-man ala mj. conners becomes the lizard and trashes the university (or just his room) and gwen happens to be there for whatever reason and gets caught in the middle. spider-man intervenes (perhaps peter was there studying with him and witnesses the whole transformation), lizard gets away. later on after the bugle realizes theres a lizard man abound kraven catches wind and decides to catch it. spider-man runs into both kraven and the lizard in an alley and a 3-way fight ensues between them from the streets to rooftops. kraven sees that spider-man is also worthy of his time so he sets his sights on him. kraven could lay a trap in the zoo and peter and him have a rouse. kraven defeats him and seemingly 'kills him' with a poison dart but it merely incapacitates him. classic scene from the comics for kravens last hunt burrying peter alive. he cilmbs out of the grave barely. sstuff happens. plot plot plot lol and then the finale would include conners going home and kidnapping his son and/or wife and taking them into the sewers for some reason. perhaps the humanistic intelligence side of him thought of something to turn them into lizard people too or perhaps some better idea. final fight, hero and villains come full circle, perhaps peter gets to replace conners as professor. somewhere inbetween he had graduated from college and then the end of the movie would finally be the wedding.

and from there seems appropriate enough to have one more movie with the remainder of good villains left over which by my counts is 6.
quick overview of 5/6: after part 4 comes out- give it a bout 4 years or so afterwards and film part 5 and 6 back to back as one big story involving the sinister six. it seems logical given the enemies leftover and is an important enough situation from the comics to merrit making it into a movie. villains would be vulture (leader), electro (part 5 he would not have his true intentions set yet and part 6 he'd be the main threat- literally draining the city of power ala light the night), rhino, mysterio, chameleon and scorpion. some feel that ock should be brought bakc but his character was used perfectly and it's time to make these villains as big as they can possibly be without beeing made into second-tier villains. basically part 5 would end in a cliffhanger and 6 would be the rest of the movie, at some point i think it would be somehow powerful if aunt may died, mary janes pregnant and then the end of part 6 they have a baby girl named after may. the beginning of part 5 mysterio or chameleon (or both) would set up spider-man and captain stacy would bravely die in the line o fduty and his murder would be blamed on spider-man. seeing as how the city was never truely out to get him too much before this would be nice to not only have the villains after spdier-man but the city would turn as well. by part 6's end the city would turn around and accept him in the way they did in part 3. i feel that one movie would be ridiculous to cram 6 villains into and 2 parts would space them out evenly. plus these could be made as the last spider-man movies thus using up all the great villains and best storylines. i find it appropriate too that peter could come up with the idea of an insulated suit to fight electro in the finale with

of course these would only be good if the whole entire cast we've seen so far reprised their roles for their characters. no replacements! that would be the end of the series bar none
 
Eelectro 2 said:
of course these would only be good if the whole entire cast we've seen so far reprised their roles for their characters. no replacements! that would be the end of the series bar none
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i dont know maybe its time to give the series a new face, you know to keep it fresh.
 
Eelectro 2 said:
of course these would only be good if the whole entire cast we've seen so far reprised their roles for their characters. no replacements! that would be the end of the series bar none
Click to expand...
Please :whatever::o
 
it wouldn't be spider-man and wouldnt' be the same or as good if they replaced the actors...any of them. everybody likes these movies because of the motion and realism that all of the actors have put into their respective roles, if they changed any of that the movies would flop, big time
 
Eelectro 2 said:
it wouldn't be spider-man
Click to expand...
Yea it would be.

and wouldnt' be the same or as good if they replaced the actors...any of them.
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It would be the same, if not better if they replaced the actors. You see what I did thar? Theres no way of actually knowing that would happen. Sure you could guess and speculate but the movies failing because of a recast is not FACT until it actually comes out. And I really doubt Sony is gonna **** up with their billion dollar cash cow.

everybody likes these movies because of the motion and realism that all of the actors have put into their respective roles, if they changed any of that the movies would flop, big time
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And you dont think any new actors would do the same? Your ignorant yunno, you think that whoever they get to replace Spidey is just gonna automatically **** up with the role.

And playing devil's advocate here, if indeed the chance that a recast is a bad choice, the movie would not flop. People would still go see it and it would still make the millions and millions of dollars like the previous movies.
 
i completely want Mysterio in SM4!
Along with the Lizard...but seems like Kraven and Lizard would go hand in hand if they wanted a great story...
 
Nope, The Lizard and Kraven The Hunter, not Mysterio, would work hand-in-hand to make a great story. No fishbowls allowed. :O
 
Top villains left to use in order of importance:

Kraven the Hunter
The Lizard
The Vulture
Electro
Carnage

Re-use:
The Green Goblin (Norman Osborn)
Doctor Octopus
Sandman
Venom

With Goblin and Ock recruiting:
Sandman
Kraven
Vulture
Electro
to form the Sinister Six in Spider-Man 6.
 
I know that Spiderman has a huge gallery of villains; but IMHO, I think there is only 4 maybe 5 viable villains left, that have a strong enough character to carry a film, be it stand-alone or as a supporting villain. I don't mean supporting villain like Sandman to Venom; but more on the line like Falcone & Crane to Ra's al Ghul.... story wise.
 
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