Sequels Do we really have that many villains left?

[Spiderine]

SM4: Lizard/ Kraven
SM5: Vulture/Electro
SM6: Mysterio/Scorpion

I wouldn't mind seeing the Sinister Six, but I'm not sure if it would work.

Good pairings

 

[Spider-Fan83]

there's still quite few good ones left (more then enough to fill another 3 movies)

 

[Spider-Fan]

Agreed. I don't know why people think most of the villains left are crap. You can do lots of interesting things with many of them.

 

[Arcturus]

Out of the remaining villains, I think Lizard should be made priority.

 

[DACrowe]

IMO, this isn't just another villain thread... this is my exclamation of the futility of the seemingly random pairings of the remaning villains.

And the statement there is the sort of thing I'm afraid of. The reason I think the S6 works is simply because it feels overwhelming. That's the whole deal. It's that feeling that's most likely making most of you want to avoid it. Spider-Man's in over his webs. If you thought Spidey 3 felt crowded, wait until you see that one.
They haven't had a great storyline in the comics, sure, but I think the writers are good enough that they could come up with something fairly intriguing.

Vulture's pretty cool, outfit's a little corny as is, but if you boil it down... he's just a guy who can fly. The bell tower level in the old game was great. Something like that in the film would be cool, but once the guy starts flying and Spidey figures out how to take him down, what's left?

Scorpion is a crook with a tail and personality disorder. Abused by a deceptive scientist, given tasks against his will. Eh. He's essentially a crazier, brainwashed version of Doc Ock, except his tentacle can squirt stuff.

Mysterio prolly works, but I just don't like him.

Electro would be great to see, but I like him best when his arrogance gets in the way, and his need to prove his power over his 'allies' gets him in trouble.


And I really really really want to see the Jackal/Clone storyline. That's three amazing movies right there. Lizard/Kraven, S6 and "OMG, look at all the Spideys". Let's not forget the Peter Parker storylines either.. The Stacys, Black Cat, PP No more... things like that.
Each brings something fresh to the table that the general public may not know much about, the fans love/hate and that can really raise the stakes without becoming repetitive compared to the previous storyline.

-Vaportrail

That's my point. With Kingpin and Hobby off-limits (diff. studio and redudndacy, respectively) the only two villains I see jhaving the depth to be great cinematic characters left are Lizard and Kraven. Which I want bot hof, as they fit like a glove together, in SM4.

After that, the reamining villains are all visually impressive, but have no real depth or menace past the visual appeal. You can get away with a comic or even a 3-6 issue arc on this, but in the movie you need a villain with a lot of bite or you end up with something as lame as Blackheart in Ghost Rider, Typhoid Mary in Elektra, Juggernaut, etc. Mind you Juggernaut is a great villain who could've carried a movie by himself, but Fox is stupid.

Anyway, I want a great SM4 with the wedding storyline wrapped up quikcly before we devolve into movies with Carnage and random pairings like Electro and Vulture, Scorpion and Mysterio, etc. The rest of the rogue gallery are pretty visuals but shallow villains that outside of the comic (or children's cartoon) medium come up empty. That is why Sandman's backstory is incredibly made up in SM3. The character in the comics just doesn't have much to him, so they just added a bunch of shyte. But the cinematic villains are Doc Ock, GG, GG2, Lizard, Hobby, Kingpin, Kraven the Hunter and Venom. That essientially leaves Lizard and Kraven.

After that the movies will be running on fumes. Why? Because any villain after that is for the sake of visuals and little else and Peter's journey will either be complete or elongated and stretched too thin to spread over three more movies, instead of just one.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

there's still quite few good ones left (more then enough to fill another 3 movies)

How did Swarm make that list? And Jack-O-Lantern? They should never, ever be major villains in the movies. The entire bottom row is dubious.

It's very simple. There are five remaining priority villains; upper eschelon guys that need to be done:

Lizard
Electro
Vulture
Scorpion
Mysterio

Kraven is sort of an honorable mention. It's not so much that he is so important that he needs to be done, but he's important enough that he could be done, and his pairing with Lizard is too perfect not to do. Hobgoblin and Carnage would be on the list, but they would feel like retreads of Green Goblin and Venom, so they lose priority. Chameleon doesn't provide enough of a physical threat, Rhino and Shocker are too one-dimensional.

But that still leaves us with more than enough guys to do more than enough movies... but there's really no reason to do more than six at this point. That would still be more movies than any series I'm familiar with has done in a single run (meaning not counting restarts, or continuations that start up many years later), James Bond, which is a whole different animal, notwithstanding. There's not much reason to do more than Lizard and Kraven for Spider-Man 4, and either Electro & Vulture for 5 and Scorpion & Mysterio for 6, or the other way around.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Its all in the Sig... give or take the S6...

 

[Arcturus]

That's my point. With Kingpin and Hobby off-limits (diff. studio and redudndacy, respectively) the only two villains I see jhaving the depth to be great cinematic characters left are Lizard and Kraven. Which I want bot hof, as they fit like a glove together, in SM4.

After that, the reamining villains are all visually impressive, but have no real depth or menace past the visual appeal. You can get away with a comic or even a 3-6 issue arc on this, but in the movie you need a villain with a lot of bite or you end up with something as lame as Blackheart in Ghost Rider, Typhoid Mary in Elektra, Juggernaut, etc. Mind you Juggernaut is a great villain who could've carried a movie by himself, but Fox is stupid.

Anyway, I want a great SM4 with the wedding storyline wrapped up quikcly before we devolve into movies with Carnage and random pairings like Electro and Vulture, Scorpion and Mysterio, etc. The rest of the rogue gallery are pretty visuals but shallow villains that outside of the comic (or children's cartoon) medium come up empty. That is why Sandman's backstory is incredibly made up in SM3. The character in the comics just doesn't have much to him, so they just added a bunch of shyte. But the cinematic villains are Doc Ock, GG, GG2, Lizard, Hobby, Kingpin, Kraven the Hunter and Venom. That essientially leaves Lizard and Kraven.

After that the movies will be running on fumes. Why? Because any villain after that is for the sake of visuals and little else and Peter's journey will either be complete or elongated and stretched too thin to spread over three more movies, instead of just one.

I agree 100% with you DACrowe, good post.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

Its all in the Sig... give or take the S6...

The main problem I have with using the original Sinister Six lineup is that bringing back Doc Ock and Sandman would kind of ruin the way their stories were tied up, and I think that, if Kraven is in 4, he's almost certain to die. I say:

Spider-Man 4: Lizard & Kraven.
Lizard is the central dramatic focus, but Kraven is the real "villain." Connors lives happily ever after, Kraven dies.

Spider-Man 5: Scorpion & Mysterio.
Scorpion is the main villain, but Mysterio has almost equal focus. Scorpion dies, Mysterio is sent to prison (refreshing!).

Spider-Man 6: Electro & Vulture.
Electro is central dramatic focus and "main" villain, but is essentially and insecure and unstable guy being manipulated by the evil and cunning Vulture. Electro eventually turns on Vulture, and, through overcharging (or something), brings about his own demise. Both Electro and Vulture die.

...

I think it should be Electro/Vulture for 6 and Scorpion/Mysterio for 5 and not the other way around is because Electro/Vulture, due to Electro's powers, will have a much higher stake final battle. We're talking hundreds or even thousands of people who Electro could potentially fry. Neither Scorpion nor Mysterio is capable of that kind of damage. Plus, Electro and Vulture makes more stronger characters that will resonate more with the audience.

And to refute DACrowe's post, I am convinced that Mysterio, Scorpion, Electro, and Vulture can all be made into exceedingly strong characters. Even if I didn't like how they did it, they made Sandman into a deeper character than he was in the comics. For example, I gave a pretty thorough analysis of Mysterio's character in the Cast Mysterio! thread. I think that any character can be made to be a strong, cinematic character. Hell, a good writer could make Hydro-Man or Shocker resonate with the audience. I mean, let's be honest. Was Doc Ock ever as strong of a character in the comics as he was in Spider-Man 2? They are not limited by the extent of the characterization of their comics counterparts. However, villains that are classic, villains that were already pretty good characters in the comics take priority.

 

[Blader5489]

EDIT - Double post.

 

[Blader5489]

I think it should be Electro/Vulture for 6 and Scorpion/Mysterio for 5 and not the other way around is because Electro/Vulture, due to Electro's powers, will have a much higher stake final battle. We're talking hundreds or even thousands of people who Electro could potentially fry. Neither Scorpion nor Mysterio is capable of that kind of damage. Plus, Electro and Vulture makes more stronger characters that will resonate more with the audience.

Electro and Vulture are hardly the villains you want to end the series on, though. I see the two of them complementing a "Peter Parker No More" story, which, in SM5, would mirror the events of SM2.

Then SM6 could be an adaptation of Spider-Man: The Final Adventure, with Carnage taking the role of Tendril. That would be a perfect way to not only close out a second trilogy, but also the entire series.

Was Doc Ock ever as strong of a character in the comics as he was in Spider-Man 2?

What? The comic book Doc Ock is a much stronger character than the one in SM2.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Electro and Vulture are hardly the villains you want to end the series .

That's why you need to bring back everyone dog.... plus I really don't see the storyline with Electro Vulture... I can see it for Mysterio/Scorpion but Vulture Electro is just a tag team... if you want action just go for broke... that's my thinking

 

[Blader5489]

That's why you need to bring back everyone dog....

No, the Sinister Six is just a flat out bad idea. Even visually, it would be a boring concept since these are villains you have all seen before.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

Electro and Vulture are hardly the villains you want to end the series on, though. I see the two of them complementing a "Peter Parker No More" story, which, in SM5, would mirror the events of SM2.

Then SM6 could be an adaptation of Spider-Man: The Final Adventure, with Carnage taking the role of Tendril. That would be a perfect way to not only close out a second trilogy, but also the entire series.

The problem I have with closing out with Carnage is that Carnage isn't a deep character. He's just a killer. He provides a physical challenge to Peter, but not an emotional or mental one. Electro (at least, the way I imagine him) wouldn't be pure evil. Much like how Venom was supposed to be in Spider-Man 3, Electro would represent everything that Peter could have become. Electro is an example of what happens when power is given to someone who hasn't had the love, guidance, and other advantages that Peter had. Electro has no Uncle Ben; the closest thing is Vulture, who takes him under his wing (Buh dump bump- chhh!), but willfully manipulates him for his own purposes and guides him in the wrong direction. Peter is faced with recognizing all the different times in his life when he could have gone in the same direction as Electro, had it not been for the guidance and support of those who love him. There are examples of this in every movie so far. He has to acknowledge that, though his actions are his own responsiblity, he is a product of the love of those around him. Plus, you could have Aunt May die (peacefully, not at the hands of some villain), and Peter is forced to take the composite wisdom of all his years with Aunt May and Uncle Ben and go out there for himself. Basically, this is the movie where Peter completely grows up from being a young adult into an adult.

 

[Vaportrail]

You lost me with repeating villains. Two for Mysterio? Come on.

Lizard
Electro
Vulture
Scorpion
Mysterio

Kraven is sort of an honorable mention. It's not so much that he is so important that he needs to be done, but he's important enough that he could be done, and his pairing with Lizard is too perfect not to do. Hobgoblin and Carnage would be on the list, but they would feel like retreads of Green Goblin and Venom, so they lose priority. Chameleon doesn't provide enough of a physical threat, Rhino and Shocker are too one-dimensional.

I agree with the Goblin/symbiote bit. That's essentially the same as repeating a villain. We don't see the femme Doc Ock, either.

When you call Rhino and Shocker one-dimensional though, how does Scorpion not fall into this category? Vulture kinda hits me that way too. They all have their back stories, some better than others, and while they work for comics which drag out their storylines more than soap operas, I just don't think they're special enough to have a pairing that works.

If you take away the powers, a lot of these are the same villain.

Mysterio: Wants revenge against the entertainment industry. Uses special effects to exact his revenge.
Electro: Whiny crazy guy accidently given powers. Uses them for crime.

Scorpion: Wants revenge against company who made him who he is. Uses outfit against them to search for a cure.
Rhino: Likes power at first, then begins to resent having it. Uses it to try and find a way to remove it.

Vulture: At first he's a fairly standard villain. Robs banks, w/e. Then his technology gets stolen and he tries to take out the people who took it. This overlaps the timeframe when Peter originally got rid of the symbiote, btw.

And Hydro-Man? Seriously?


I dunno. With those big lists of all these villains that'll work, it seems that the comic to film transition isn't being given enough thought. Think bigger, guys. There's so much more that can be done than simply pairing up a couple here and a couple there.

I hope whoever makes this decision realizes it too. The villain isn't enough. There has to be reason, and there has to be story. These guys just don't have enough of it.

-Vaportrail

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

You lost me with repeating villains. Two for Mysterio? Come on.

Not sure what you mean, or what I said to that effect.

If you take away the powers, a lot of these are the same villain.

I dunno. With those big lists of all these villains that'll work, it seems that the comic to film transition isn't being given enough thought. Think bigger, guys. There's so much more that can be done than simply pairing up a couple here and a couple there.

I hope whoever makes this decision realizes it too. The villain isn't enough. There has to be reason, and there has to be story. These guys just don't have enough of it.

-Vaportrail

I understand where you're coming from, but I think I can explain more clearly: all of the villains in the Spider-Man comics are no more than two-dimensional. The Spider-Man comics have never had great writing. The villains are all skeletons of actual characters. However, a good screenwriter (and a good actor) can take these skeletons and pack on organs and muscle and skin to make a fully-fleshed out character.

The descriptions of the villains that you gave are all accurate, but we have two opposite views on them. You see those descriptions as the extent of the character. I see them as the beginning of the character. Those descriptions are all starting places.

 

[Blader5489]

The problem I have with closing out with Carnage is that Carnage isn't a deep character. He's just a killer. He provides a physical challenge to Peter, but not an emotional or mental one.

You're right, the 616 Carnage doesn't even qualify as a character. But you could easily reinvent the character as a combination between Sin-Eater, Tendril, and Ultimate Carnage. Basically, here is what I would envision for the last film:

At the end of SM5, Peter hangs up his webs so he can become a teacher, wanting to give kids the guidance he had from Uncle Ben and Aunt May (so as to prevent any future Electros) while entrusting the city's well-being to Jean DeWolffe (replacing the late Captain Stacy).

In SM6, Miles Warren uses a sample of Spider-Man's blood to create a serum that could hopefully become a cure-all for diseases. Enter Cletus Kasady, a Sin-Eater type criminal with a blood disorder--if death row doesn't kill, his disease will. Warren tests the serum on Kasady, which transforms him into Carnage (absolutely no relation to Venom or the symbiote). Continuing his Sin-Eater killing spree, Carnage kills Jean DeWolff, which brings Peter out of retirement to be Spider-Man one last time.

So while Carnage himself isn't a particularly deep character, he presents a heavy mental and emotional strain for Peter: a villain, empowered by Peter's own blood, abusing his great power without exercising any kind of responsibility. Peter's guilt over DeWolff's death leads Peter into conflict with Carnage.

The movie could end with Peter destroying Carnage at the expense of his own powers. Now this would complete Peter's journey into adulthood: no longer Spider-Man, Peter could devote his entire life to teaching and his family--the "greater responsibility" taught to him by Aunt May.

Electro (at least, the way I imagine him) wouldn't be pure evil. Much like how Venom was supposed to be in Spider-Man 3, Electro would represent everything that Peter could have become. Electro is an example of what happens when power is given to someone who hasn't had the love, guidance, and other advantages that Peter had. Electro has no Uncle Ben; the closest thing is Vulture, who takes him under his wing (Buh dump bump- chhh!), but willfully manipulates him for his own purposes and guides him in the wrong direction. Peter is faced with recognizing all the different times in his life when he could have gone in the same direction as Electro, had it not been for the guidance and support of those who love him. There are examples of this in every movie so far. He has to acknowledge that, though his actions are his own responsiblity, he is a product of the love of those around him. Plus, you could have Aunt May die (peacefully, not at the hands of some villain), and Peter is forced to take the composite wisdom of all his years with Aunt May and Uncle Ben and go out there for himself. Basically, this is the movie where Peter completely grows up from being a young adult into an adult.

I think we're on the exact same page here, as these are all things I would like to see. But I think these would better serve as SM5, as a bridge from SM4 (which I also think we're agreed on) to the end of his journey in the SM6 I outlined above.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

You're right, the 616 Carnage doesn't even qualify as a character. But you could easily reinvent the character as a combination between Sin-Eater, Tendril, and Ultimate Carnage. Basically, here is what I would envision for the last film:

At the end of SM5, Peter hangs up his webs so he can become a teacher, wanting to give kids the guidance he had from Uncle Ben and Aunt May (so as to prevent any future Electros) while entrusting the city's well-being to Jean DeWolffe.

In SM6, Miles Warren uses a sample of Spider-Man's blood to create a serum that could hopefully become a cure-all for diseases. Enter Cletus Kasady, a Sin-Eater type criminal with a blood disorder--if death row doesn't kill, his disease will. Warren tests the serum on Kasady, which transforms him into Carnage (absolutely no relation to Venom or the symbiote). Continuing his Sin-Eater killing spree, Carnage kills Jean DeWolff, which brings Peter out of retirement to be Spider-Man one last time.

So while Carnage himself isn't a particularly deep character, he presents a heavy mental and emotional strain for Peter: a villain, empowered by Peter's own blood, abusing his great power without exercising any kind of responsibility. Peter's guilt over DeWolff's death leads Peter into conflict with Carnage.

The movie could end with Peter destroying Carnage at the expense of his own powers. Now this would complete Peter's journey into adulthood: no longer Spider-Man, Peter could devote his entire life to teaching and his family--the "greater responsibility" taught to him by Aunt May.



I think we're on the exact same page here, as these are all things I would like to see. But I think these would better serve as SM5, as a bridge from SM4 (which I also think we're agreed on) to the end of his journey in the SM6 I outlined above.

Your ideas are interesting... and definately the most intriguing take on Carnage that I've read so far. Not quite sure exactly how I feel about them though. I will think about them.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

Double post.

 

[DACrowe]

The main problem I have with using the original Sinister Six lineup is that bringing back Doc Ock and Sandman would kind of ruin the way their stories were tied up, and I think that, if Kraven is in 4, he's almost certain to die. I say:

Spider-Man 4: Lizard & Kraven.
Lizard is the central dramatic focus, but Kraven is the real "villain." Connors lives happily ever after, Kraven dies.

Spider-Man 5: Scorpion & Mysterio.
Scorpion is the main villain, but Mysterio has almost equal focus. Scorpion dies, Mysterio is sent to prison (refreshing!).

Spider-Man 6: Electro & Vulture.
Electro is central dramatic focus and "main" villain, but is essentially and insecure and unstable guy being manipulated by the evil and cunning Vulture. Electro eventually turns on Vulture, and, through overcharging (or something), brings about his own demise. Both Electro and Vulture die.

...

I think it should be Electro/Vulture for 6 and Scorpion/Mysterio for 5 and not the other way around is because Electro/Vulture, due to Electro's powers, will have a much higher stake final battle. We're talking hundreds or even thousands of people who Electro could potentially fry. Neither Scorpion nor Mysterio is capable of that kind of damage. Plus, Electro and Vulture makes more stronger characters that will resonate more with the audience.

And to refute DACrowe's post, I am convinced that Mysterio, Scorpion, Electro, and Vulture can all be made into exceedingly strong characters. Even if I didn't like how they did it, they made Sandman into a deeper character than he was in the comics. For example, I gave a pretty thorough analysis of Mysterio's character in the Cast Mysterio! thread. I think that any character can be made to be a strong, cinematic character. Hell, a good writer could make Hydro-Man or Shocker resonate with the audience. I mean, let's be honest. Was Doc Ock ever as strong of a character in the comics as he was in Spider-Man 2? They are not limited by the extent of the characterization of their comics counterparts. However, villains that are classic, villains that were already pretty good characters in the comics take priority.

I know WE CAN turn any villain into a completely newly structured character like Sandman, but that would be just for the sake of making more movies and Sony money than continuing the story. I really think we've reached the point where Peter and Mary Jane should marry in the next movie and if they don't it is only to stretch the movies out to sM6, which at that point it will feel forced to be so long and "about damn time," with a new cast tying the knot and losing its potentecy.

Lizard and Kraven (based on KLH) offer an amazing movie. Scoripion, mysterio and Vulture (save for his new backstory in MK Spidey which would be too much of a retread of Sandman in SM3) are very shallow villains compared to GG, Doc Ock, Lizard, etc. Technically Venom is pretty shallow as well, but he looks cool and as the anti-Spider-Man got a free ride ot the A-list without doing much (I'd argue for however briefly seen, Raimi's Venom was better than the comics' but TAS Venom is better than both).

And yes Doc Ock has always been a strong character. ****, I liked SM2, but I've read many stories where Ock is an even stronger character than in that. Yeah his origin was always a little cartoony and I understand fleshing it out (albeit I wish he had just gone crazy and not that "the arms made him do it" BS thanks to crappy Smallville writers). But try reading just recently Paul Jenkins' six-arter storyline about Doc Ock being so full of pride, insecurity and shameful rage for his past defeats that he holds a Middle Eastern leader hostage unless Spidey unmasks himself in public in front of Ock, just so Ock can proveh e is the better man. He is ready to start WWIII for his pride, because he is so insecure from his father's beatings as a child (similar to Harry but more physical). And at the end he fails and kills a cop just to piss Spidey off, and then Spidey beats him to the point he is begging for his life.

That is an epic story and was just one in dozens.

 

[DACrowe]

You're right, the 616 Carnage doesn't even qualify as a character. But you could easily reinvent the character as a combination between Sin-Eater, Tendril, and Ultimate Carnage. Basically, here is what I would envision for the last film:

At the end of SM5, Peter hangs up his webs so he can become a teacher, wanting to give kids the guidance he had from Uncle Ben and Aunt May (so as to prevent any future Electros) while entrusting the city's well-being to Jean DeWolffe (replacing the late Captain Stacy).

In SM6, Miles Warren uses a sample of Spider-Man's blood to create a serum that could hopefully become a cure-all for diseases. Enter Cletus Kasady, a Sin-Eater type criminal with a blood disorder--if death row doesn't kill, his disease will. Warren tests the serum on Kasady, which transforms him into Carnage (absolutely no relation to Venom or the symbiote). Continuing his Sin-Eater killing spree, Carnage kills Jean DeWolff, which brings Peter out of retirement to be Spider-Man one last time.

So while Carnage himself isn't a particularly deep character, he presents a heavy mental and emotional strain for Peter: a villain, empowered by Peter's own blood, abusing his great power without exercising any kind of responsibility. Peter's guilt over DeWolff's death leads Peter into conflict with Carnage.

The movie could end with Peter destroying Carnage at the expense of his own powers. Now this would complete Peter's journey into adulthood: no longer Spider-Man, Peter could devote his entire life to teaching and his family--the "greater responsibility" taught to him by Aunt May.



I think we're on the exact same page here, as these are all things I would like to see. But I think these would better serve as SM5, as a bridge from SM4 (which I also think we're agreed on) to the end of his journey in the SM6 I outlined above.

You really want SM6 to end with Peter no longer powered and living a life of normalcy and adulthood? Now I'd love that to be the end of the character's story in the comics, if there ever was an end, but doing that in the movies would be such a far departure from the comics fans would **** a chicken fully grown that is ****ting more chickens. That's how pissed they'd be!

As for Carnage, while I agree with making him more of a Sin-Eater type origin character, I'd just point out your storyline is still very much like Venom, even moreso than just the symbiote. A villai ncreated from Peter's powers (through blood instead of symbiote transfer) and carelessness, that Peter feels responsible for existing and guilty for his crimes (except he'd kill more than a few random cops like in SM3).

Just pointing, out.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

How did Swarm make that list? And Jack-O-Lantern? They should never, ever be major villains in the movies. The entire bottom row is dubious.

I didn't make it as a list of who I'd want to see, (I didn't make it at all)
I just took that chart of most of his villians on itm just to add to my post

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

I didn't make it as a list of who I'd want to see, (I didn't make it at all)
I just took that chart of most of his villians on itm just to add to my post

It wasn't necessarily directed at you. It was directed at whoever decided Swarm was one of Spidey's most important villains.

 

[Visionary]

Agreed. I don't know why people think most of the villains left are crap. You can do lots of interesting things with many of them.

Because Spider-Man fans have the imagination of dead ants.

There's plenty of villains to easily entertain the masses and finish out the remaining 3 movies, and there is still room to make even better movies than the previous ones. As I don't believe Spider-Man films have hit its apex with Spider-Man 2, not even close. But you're going to need a director with a vision to take the films to the next level and beyond, finding him will be a bit difficult, but it can be done.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

I know WE CAN turn any villain into a completely newly structured character like Sandman, but that would be just for the sake of making more movies and Sony money than continuing the story. I really think we've reached the point where Peter and Mary Jane should marry in the next movie and if they don't it is only to stretch the movies out to sM6, which at that point it will feel forced to be so long and "about damn time," with a new cast tying the knot and losing its potentecy.

Lizard and Kraven (based on KLH) offer an amazing movie. Scoripion, mysterio and Vulture (save for his new backstory in MK Spidey which would be too much of a retread of Sandman in SM3) are very shallow villains compared to GG, Doc Ock, Lizard, etc. Technically Venom is pretty shallow as well, but he looks cool and as the anti-Spider-Man got a free ride ot the A-list without doing much (I'd argue for however briefly seen, Raimi's Venom was better than the comics' but TAS Venom is better than both).

I'm not in favor of totally changing a character like they did with Sandman. That was bull****. I'm talking about fleshing out from what we already have of a character. Take Electro, for instance. He has an inferiority complex. Does that make a character? No. Is it a hell of a starting point for a villain? Yeah!

For Sandman, they basically invented a new character. For these characters, they need to read the comics and say, "Okay, what lies beneath the surface of this character?" You don't create a great character by deciding things about them. You take what you know, and ask questions. Why is he like this? What does he really want? Why does he really want that? And see where those questions take you. Hopefully, you get something organic and real.