Sequels Do we really have that many villains left?

[Spider-Fan83]

kingpin would only work to bring in a mob boss type element,(as a behind the scenes only guy) who hires other villains to take on spidey, not as someone he fights directly
though, I’d prefer Silvermaine as the mob boss type (since kingpin was already in DD)

 

[Spider-Bite]

I think they messed up the villain selection. Conners wont even be that good now, because it will seem like more of the same. Sympathetic villain whom peter was connected to. Conners could have worked for part 3. Y

with peter working for conenrs on his research, and peter asking conners to study the symbiote, the symbiote could have felt threatened by conners, and had peter botch the research, to turn conners into a mindless lizard incapable of helping peter get rid of the symbiote.

Then it wouldn't be so hard to swallow that once again somebody whom peter knew turned into the symbiote.

You could have had eddie in part 3 discover evidence proving that the lizard was conners, and even proof that spider-man bothced the research, only to have spider-man prevent eddie from proving it, instead of a photoshopped picture of spider-man. I mean this as a set up for venom's motivation of course later down the road. And it eliminates the coincedence factor later down the road for Venom as well. You could easily have Brock, who is at the scene of spider-man ditching his suit, because of Brock's job, instead of being at the same church at the same time as Peter. Why did Peter choose a church anyways? He's not even religous. Characterization please?

this could have worked, and we could have seen more focus on peter's genius. It's a race. Peter has to cure conners, so conners can cure Peter, before it's too late for the both of them.

i have an idea for how the whole movie could have went down, that i started typing, but I never finished it. It would have included Harry, Ock, and Conners, but it wouldn't have been crammed in the least. some day I'll post it, and I think people here would like it, a lot.

Compare setting up Ock for part 3, to the needed time to set up Sandman. Ock was already there, and the audience already had a connection to him, plus he was a thousand times cooler, character wise, and fight scene wise than Sandman. Sandman required more advanced CGI, but the fight scenes just weren't as exciting or as dramatic. Plus Ock didn't ruin Spider-Man's origin.

compare setting up Conners to setting up Venom. Yeah Conners would require a set up, but it wouldn't require the movie to rush the symbiote story so fast that we have time for the symbiote to latch onto eddie in time for a climatic fight. And one villain requiring a set per up movie isn't too much either. And Conners could easily became the lizard much earlier in the movie than Venom could.

 

[Visionary]

I don't even want a 5 and 6 to be honest.

I do.

 

[Spiderine]

kingpin would only work to bring in a mob boss type element,(as a behind the scenes only guy) who hires other villains to take on spidey, not as someone he fights directly
though, I’d prefer Silverman as the mob boss type (since kingpin was already in DD)

Not unless he had to fight a Kingpin suped up on the super formula. That could be interesting.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Not unless he had to fight a Kingpin suped up on the super formula. That could be interesting.

No thanks. Plus, many Kingpin stories in the Spidey comics I felt were lame. Like when he kidnapped Spidey to ressurect his son by stealing his life energy.

 

[DACrowe]

That doesn't mean Kingpin in the movie has to be lame. He had some great sotries with Spidey in the '80s and I thought in the first two or three seasons (before the overuse) was done quite well on TAS.

Kingpin could work as the man who pulls the strings, since norman is dead and no other villain is really capable of it. Sad thing is, he can't be used because he was only barely tapped for an average action movie that will have no sequels. So sad.

 

[Spider-Fan]

That doesn't mean Kingpin in the movie has to be lame. He had some great sotries with Spidey in the '80s and I thought in the first two or three seasons (before the overuse) was done quite well on TAS.

Kingpin could work as the man who pulls the strings, since norman is dead and no other villain is really capable of it. Sad thing is, he can't be used because he was only barely tapped for an average action movie that will have no sequels. So sad.

I am kind of glad he won't be used though. I don't think the Spidey movies need the behind the scenes man. I would much prefer trying to work a story around Mysterio, Electro, etc. than Kingpin.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

I am kind of glad he won't be used though. I don't think the Spidey movies need the behind the scenes man. I would much prefer trying to work a story around Mysterio, Electro, etc. than Kingpin.

I think it could use a puppet master type-guy... but not Kingpin. I mean, it's just not as cool, having all these guys being manipulated by a guy who is already a well-known crime boss. I think it's much better if it's someone that Spider-Man wouldn't guess, like Roderick Kingsley.

 

[greenknight]

Electro, Scorpion, Mysterio, Kraven, and certainly Lizard are staples that I hope are in a future movie.

They can`t be in the next movies! They have all been in the movie based games and if you put them in any future movie, it`s going to cause big and I mean BIG problems the future movie based games.

 

[Blader5489]

They can`t be in the next movies! They have all been in the movie based games and if you put them in any future movie, it`s going to cause big and I mean BIG problems the future movie based games.

What the hell kind of logic is that?

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

They can`t be in the next movies! They have all been in the movie based games and if you put them in any future movie, it`s going to cause big and I mean BIG problems the future movie based games.

Not really, besides, I'm sure they will figure something out.

 

[Venom 1988]

They can`t be in the next movies! They have all been in the movie based games and if you put them in any future movie, it`s going to cause big and I mean BIG problems the future movie based games.

Hahaha.....no. BIG problems? Please

The games are based on the movies but they are not in continuity with them. They make the games based on what is going on in the current movie regardless of past games (tho they try to connect them as best as possible). Plus I really doubt it would be a problem for them, if the writer/director/ producer wants a certain villain, they could care less if they were already in the games. Afterall Vulutre was going to be in SM3 and his story would have definitly contradict his appearence in the first game. But I severly doubt anybody working on the movie would have cared about a small thing like that.

Besides theres so many things that happen in the games that consider them non cannon anyway. To name a few:
* In SM1, Norman never finds out who Spider-Man is
* At the end of SM1, we are led to believe that MJ knows Peter is Spider-Man and they both start smooching there on the bridge.
* In SM2 Peter never looses his powers and doesnt give up being Spider-Man.
* No explanation as to what happens to Harry in SM3.

 

[DACrowe]

How about Harry becoming the GG in SM1 game after finding out that his father was Spidey (as he died very publicly in the game) to hunt down a guy who stole his dad's equipment (a Hobby knock off?).

So keep that in mind. The games (though SM1 was good, SM2 excellent and SM3 mediocre) are just merchendise for the studio to make more money. SM2 was the only game Sam Raimi kept any interest in (helped coming up with missions, the Black Cat subplot, etc.) and the games are simply contradicting each other as much as the movies. I mean if SM3 the game can pretend Harry never became the GG, then Lizard and Kraven appear in SM4.

Will Sony let their merchandise endanger making anymore of a billion dollar franchise? No.

 

[chaseter]

They can`t be in the next movies! They have all been in the movie based games and if you put them in any future movie, it`s going to cause big and I mean BIG problems the future movie based games.

What the hell

 

[flamethrower]

My take on this.
SM 4 Kraven/ Rhyno. But Kraven winds up teaming with Spidey.
SM 5 the Sinister 6. They would work for the Mob. And would consist of Vulture, Electro, Sandman, Hydroman, Mysterio, and The Scorpion.
SM6 The finish of the Series. Eddie Brock did not Die folks. No Body was found. Unless you have a body on a Slab he ain't dead. You are not finished with the Venom Story, And it is a 5 act play. And you are at the end of the 2nd act. Basically Venom, and Brock both survived ok. The Venom Symbiote reproduces, and finds Cletus Cassidy a serial killer. Carnage is born. Brock/Venom tries to stop him alone, and Fails. Spidey also tries to stop him, and Fails badly. But together they triumph. Brock/Venom agrees to leave the Big Apple, and relocates to L.A.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

My take on this.
SM 4 Kraven/ Rhyno. But Kraven winds up teaming with Spidey.
SM 5 the Sinister 6. They would work for the Mob. And would consist of Vulture, Electro, Sandman, Hydroman, Mysterio, and The Scorpion.
SM6 The finish of the Series. Eddie Brock did not Die folks. No Body was found. Unless you have a body on a Slab he ain't dead. You are not finished with the Venom Story, And it is a 5 act play. And you are at the end of the 2nd act. Basically Venom, and Brock both survived ok. The Venom Symbiote reproduces, and finds Cletus Cassidy a serial killer. Carnage is born. Brock/Venom tries to stop him alone, and Fails. Spidey also tries to stop him, and Fails badly. But together they triumph. Brock/Venom agrees to leave the Big Apple, and relocates to L.A.

To everyone else... guys, this is his first post. So go easy on him.

 

[Blader5489]

My take on this.
SM 4 Kraven/ Rhyno. But Kraven winds up teaming with Spidey.
SM 5 the Sinister 6. They would work for the Mob. And would consist of Vulture, Electro, Sandman, Hydroman, Mysterio, and The Scorpion.
SM6 The finish of the Series. Eddie Brock did not Die folks. No Body was found. Unless you have a body on a Slab he ain't dead. You are not finished with the Venom Story, And it is a 5 act play. And you are at the end of the 2nd act. Basically Venom, and Brock both survived ok. The Venom Symbiote reproduces, and finds Cletus Cassidy a serial killer. Carnage is born. Brock/Venom tries to stop him alone, and Fails. Spidey also tries to stop him, and Fails badly. But together they triumph. Brock/Venom agrees to leave the Big Apple, and relocates to L.A.

Hmm...intriguing ideas. But tell me, where does Spider-Man fit into all of this?

 

[matthooper]

They can`t be in the next movies! They have all been in the movie based games and if you put them in any future movie, it`s going to cause big and I mean BIG problems the future movie based games.

Best post ever!!!!!

That is likely the funniest and most disturbing post I have ever read.

 

[Spade]

The Potential Villains:

Kraven & Calypso
Every time I see them, the whole piece feels jungle-themed. He's a classic villain though, and should not be forgotten.

I've never understood how a "classic" label makes it worth showing on the big screen...unless he proves to be more than just a hunter in the big city, he's a concept that's far from cinematic. His sole claim to fame is the Last Hunt, and that's because he killed himself.

Black Cat
Yes, I know she's not a villain. If I recall, there was a misunderstanding in the very beginning of her relationship w/ Spidey. I have this feeling that either Gwen Stacy will become the Black Cat, or Felisha Harding is going to wind up being one of her girlfriends who acquires a taste for vengeance after Gwen's demise.

We don't need any more romantic interests. The third film gave us plenty for multiple films in the romance department. If they really want to develop the characters, they should do more with what's already introduced.

Carnage
Well, Eddie's dead so that'd change the origin story a bit. The symbiote is presumed dead, unless one of those writhing bits after the explosion managed to crawl away. I'm thinking we'll see him in the Venom film.

Connors still has a strand from his examination of the organism's properties, but that's besides the point. If Sam can't get anything that wasn't made before the 80's, this will just be another disaster in the making with an even higher risk of screwing up.

Chameleon

Electro

Jackal

The Jury

None of them have even the most remote connection to Peter to move the plot along. We saw with the Sandman what happens when you just force characters into these films.

Lizard
We all know he's been set up to be done. He'll prolly be in 4, really. Honestly, I'd like Connors to know about Spidey's secret identity and even help him out with a villain for a whole movie and then have his problem come about near the end, then get a whole movie devoted to him and maybe one other villain. That way the connection the pair had in the comics would be viable, rather than the way it was forced upon us like with Doc Ock and GG.

It's true that a whole movie could be devoted to the Lizard, but like with SM3 Sony seems to think this fourth film needs another villain. Hopefully that changes, but after 3 films of buildup we deserve to see Connors take center stage.

Vulture

Ugh. Please...no. I don't want to go into a diatribe, but to summarize: if you thought the last film felt boring, a man wearing a vulture suit surfing around stealing from random places would be in the running to top anything worth griping over last time. It's not that he's old. It's that he's ridiculous. Let's move past shoving in Silver Age villains, shall we?

Rhino - If you wanna see stuff like this, go watch 'Hulk'. Not enough character behind this guy, though I did like the issue where he goes on a rampage just so he can feel something underneath his armored skin. The thing that makes this work though, is that Spider-Man has already known him for years as featured villain. The film would have to force that connection yet again. Nope.

And the Vulture or Kraven or any of those one-notes you mentioned would? How? If anything, the Rhino makes for a good patsy for a mastermind character. It's the only way I can really see a plot like that working- a weaker villain pulling the strings as the Rhino provides the action the audience is looking for.

Raimi's interested in the Sinister Six, as I would expect someone from his generation of comic readers to be.

That's nice, but that doesn't mean we need them. Random coincidence has not worked well, even in a film where a man has the luck of obtaining spider powers instead of a fatal spider venom reaction. Outside of being expensive, there's no reason for this to happen outside of random fights.

 

[Vaportrail]

I've never understood how a "classic" label makes it worth showing on the big screen...unless he proves to be more than just a hunter in the big city, he's a concept that's far from cinematic. His sole claim to fame is the Last Hunt, and that's because he killed himself.

I think I'm just warming up to the Lizard/Kraven story that could be done. Originally I was kinda anti-Kraven being in a film since I've never liked how he'd been presented on TV, or some of the comics... but that pairing works. Peter wouldn't have a connection with him so much, but him trying to take down and defend the Lizard at the same time would be good stuff.

We don't need any more romantic interests. The third film gave us plenty for multiple films in the romance department. If they really want to develop the characters, they should do more with what's already introduced.

Eh, I don't really think I mean Black Cat as a love interest. She's always been flirtatious, but I can't imagine Spidey/Peter reacting more than with modest embarassment. None of this MJ jealousy crap. It'd be a sideline plot running with the death of Captain Stacy, which you KNOW they're gonna have to do now.

Connors still has a strand from his examination of the organism's properties, but that's besides the point

Ahh, that too. That's the one I always forget to mention. Still, just do it in the Venom film and that's enough for me.

It's true that a whole movie could be devoted to the Lizard, but like with SM3 Sony seems to think this fourth film needs another villain. Hopefully that changes, but after 3 films of buildup we deserve to see Connors take center stage.

Until I had this "omg, the villains aren't film-worthy" revelation, I was even saying push him to Spidey 5 and really get Peter and Connors working together in #4 so they'd get this really strong bond, then just imagine how much lip-quivering there'd be in 5. Like, Doc Connors could show more of his frustration with the missing arm over the course of the film. I'm not sure how it worked back in the comics, but that's how it seems to be happening now.

Ugh. Please...no. I don't want to go into a diatribe, but to summarize: if you thought the last film felt boring, a man wearing a vulture suit surfing around stealing from random places would be in the running to top anything worth griping over last time. It's not that he's old. It's that he's ridiculous. Let's move past shoving in Silver Age villains, shall we?

Well, someone mentioned him being a war veteran? I don't know. It seems like he'd work, but I was mostly pushing him for the S6.

And the Vulture or Kraven or any of those one-notes you mentioned would? How?

Heh, no. I think either you misunderstood or I wrote it wrong. I didn't go back and look, w/e. =P

Random coincidence has not worked well, even in a film where a man has the luck of obtaining spider powers instead of a fatal spider venom reaction. Outside of being expensive, there's no reason for this to happen outside of random fights.

Well, it's so lucky that the kid and that creepy old guy got their powers on the same day. It's lucky that Peter got to bond w/ that doctor right before his accident.

I think coincidence is largely one of the reasons so many of the things in comics books happen as they do. Film has been described as "life with the boring parts cut out". Perhaps it's a touch embellished, but I don't mind the occasional macguffin if it allows for more interesting plot.


Man.
You're like me, but even stricter. I think we line up a bit in what we're shooting for overall, though.

-Vaportrail

 

[Venom 1988]

SM6 The finish of the Series. Eddie Brock did not Die folks. No Body was found. Unless you have a body on a Slab he ain't dead. You are not finished with the Venom Story, And it is a 5 act play. And you are at the end of the 2nd act. Basically Venom, and Brock both survived ok.

lololololololol wow

Hmm what first, well for one Brock is dead. You want to know why no body was found? Cuz he got vaporized. Usually they dont take in piles of dust.
Second Venom a 5 act story? Yea...no more like 3 act, and we already got that story structure in SM3 (whether it was good or not is a different story).

 

[Spade]

Hmm...thinking about it, maybe I was too stern on the Vulture. He could work...but I'm not sure that what I consider a good translation of the Vulture would be something a classic fan would agree with. I really feel he needs an overhaul where little outside of the thirst for status and the harness concept would be retained. You could weave a beautiful 3 villain free-for-all if you used him properly. The issue is in how well it could be written.

As for Venom, I'll make it brief: while Avi has the attitude according to the SM2 commentary that you can resurrect anyone, there really isn't a way to bring Brock back that wouldn't be hokey. He was vaporized, and we can't really take the "it kept his memories" approach with the symbiote like in USM since they cut out the ending where it turned out it was impersonating him.

 

[SalaciousVC]

All the good villians have been taken except Lizard,so Sm4 for him Obviousley

 

[Blader5489]

I really feel he needs an overhaul where little outside of the thirst for status and the harness concept would be retained.

That's really all you need. When you think about it, only the most basic traits of the villains have been carried over from the comics to the film.

Personally, I think the Vulture and Electro make a perfect pair for a movie; Electro's inferiority complex would nicely complement the Vulture's "thirst for status."

 

[Arcturus]

How about Chameleon, does anyone want to see this villain?