Do you think WB/DC will ever make a Wonder Woman movie?

I'm sorry, but I'm still not buying that argument. I really does seem like when a female-led property does poorly, then it's held up as proof that the concept "doesn't sell." But when it does well, like THG, then people try to claim that it's due to "other factors."

No, it's not only "due to other factors", but its success is clearly partially due to the fact that the concept was already beloved among young adults. It's not rocket science. It's a cultural phenomenon. The TWILIGHT movies didn't make a ton of money because they're good movies with a great female lead character and an engaging story, after all.

Sorry, but no sale. THG is a franchise FOCUSED completely around a female character. Katniss is the freaking narrator for God's sake. If she doesn't work as a character, then the entire series doesn't work. And the film's marketing was primarily focused around Jennifer Lawrence. They were selling the movie on her.

No one is arguing that if she doesn't work, the series doesn't work.

Of course they were selling the movie on her. Everyone else in the film was a NOBODY to the general public and the target audience in terms of drawing power. You think most kids care a fig about Stanley Tucci? Wes Bentley? Woody Harrelson?

Jennifer Lawrence, on the other hand, was coming off Oscar buzz and the hot up and coming actress...especially among young adults, etc.

The argument is not that a female led action movie cannot make money...the argument is that THE HUNGER GAMES is not a good barometer for what would happen with a WONDER WOMAN movie.

I'm sorry, but that double standard gets on my nerves. If THG had failed, then you can be damn sure that it would have been held up as proof that female-led action movies "don't sell."

That's because if that had happened, it would have been evidence that female-led action movies don't sell well, regardless of relative quality.
 
The point is there is no where near the same number of female lead action films to make a fair comparison. 99% of movies are lead by men.
 
The Hunger Games is a spectacular script, and also spectacularly directed, acted, et cetera. It's not a good model for Wonder Woman because the odds of a Wonder Woman being that good are very small.

Similarly with Twilight, though you may all laugh with it, it speaks to the minds of tens of millions of teenage girls.

I think the issue is that mediocre female-led movies don't do as well as mediocre male-led movies. Hollywood know that if Iron Man 4 turns out to be bad, it will still make 700 million, so that lessens the risk. On the other hand if Wonder Woman is bad, it will make 100 million.
 
Hard to understand for many, but Twilight was also loved my a lot of men, not as many as women, but i know many men that loved it.

I think Wonder Woman is too iconic to only make 100 million, all you need is decent marketing for it to be successful. Being good would also help a lot.
 
Hard to understand for many, but Twilight was also loved my a lot of men, not as many as women, but i know many men that loved it.
I did read the Twilight books and watched the movies, though I did not "love" them. I remember thinking that the first movie was the best, but I don't remember why, as it's been a while. I think it was more nicely shot?

I think Wonder Woman is too iconic to only make 100 million, all you need is decent marketing for it to be successful. Being good would also help a lot.
Green Lantern who is comparably famous to WW made ~220 million, so that's a baseline of what a poorly-received blockbuster CBM can make.

I think it's across the spectrum though. A poorly-made female-led film will make less than a poorly-made male-led film, and a well-made female-led film will make less than a well-made male-led film.

Female -ed zombie films,
Resident Evil, 2002, 102 million
Dawn of the Dead, 2004, 102 million

Male-led zombie films
World War Z, 2013, 540 million
28 days later, 2003, 83 million
I Am Legend, 2007, 585 million
 
Most of the Twilight films were very nicelly shot, when it comes to what they're about, i don't think they're any dumber than the likes of Transformers, it's just that when a female lead fandom of something that isn't exactly great gets big, many like to complain, Good example is some of the hate bands like One Direction get.

I don't thin GL was as famous, WW is iconic, even if most don't know her story, most people know her. WW comics don't sell as much, but movies are a very different beast. Though personal experience doesn't tell what the whole world thinks, i've hear someone who knows nothing about comics stating that he/ she would like to see a Wonder Woman film, or asking why they didn't do it already.
 
Most of the Twilight films were very nicelly shot, when it comes to what they're about, i don't think they're any dumber than the likes of Transformers, it's just that when a female lead fandom of something that isn't exactly great gets big, many like to complain, Good example is some of the hate bands like One Direction get.

I don't thin GL was as famous, WW is iconic, even if most don't know her story, most people know her. WW comics don't sell as much, but movies are a very different beast. Though personal experience doesn't tell what the whole world thinks, i've hear someone who knows nothing about comics stating that he/ she would like to see a Wonder Woman film, or asking why they didn't do it already.

Either way whoever makes that first female lead superhero movie will set the standard. Either Marvel or DC. It takes a huge success to get hollywood moving. I thought black superheroes would be the new trend after Blade turns out Blade was not as huge as it needed to be.
 
I'm sorry, but I'm still not buying that argument. I really does seem like when a female-led property does poorly, then it's held up as proof that the concept "doesn't sell." But when it does well, like THG, then people try to claim that it's due to "other factors." Sorry, but no sale. THG is a franchise FOCUSED completely around a female character. Katniss is the freaking narrator for God's sake. If she doesn't work as a character, then the entire series doesn't work. And the film's marketing was primarily focused around Jennifer Lawrence. They were selling the movie on her. I'm sorry, but that double standard gets on my nerves. If THG had failed, then you can be damn sure that it would have been held up as proof that female-led action movies "don't sell." It succeeded because it was a good movie with a great protagonist and an engaging story, period. There's no reason why WW cannot do the same thing, end of story.

Um, yes. We know that.

The problem is getting *Hollywood* to believe it. The fact that the established wisdom is probably wrong doesn't make it any less the established wisdom, and a serious obstacle in the way of the movie happening.
 
I'm sure we'll get a WW movie one day. If Gal works out then it'll be sooner, otherwise a fair while later. WW & Flash are the biggest characters who won't have had a solo film and WW is probably the 3rd best well known DC hero outside of US.
 
I think the fact WW isn't a gender neutral character like Katniss or the Underworld/Resident Evil series works against her, too.

I mean, i know quite a few guys who know who Sailor Moon is but you won't see too many guys lining up at a theater or admitting to wanting to see it. Probably on DVD or steal it just because it's considered for girls.

Since women make up most of ticket sales, I don't know why they just don't say f--k it and go for that 85% female ticket sales like Twilight is beyond me though.
 
I think the fact WW isn't a gender neutral character like Katniss or the Underworld/Resident Evil series works against her, too.

Is she really not gender neutral though? I always thought that associating Wonder Woman with feminism was more of an audience's interpretation rather than something inherent with the character. I could be wrong though.
 
Is she really not gender neutral though? I always thought that associating Wonder Woman with feminism was more of an audience's interpretation rather than something inherent with the character. I could be wrong though.

She isn't gender neutral, but targeted at and designed for men more often than not.

She was associated with feminism because she is one of the rare female superheroes. I'm sure some women identify with her, but she isn't often targeted at them. I think WW being a character for women is often a misnomer (sadly).
 
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WB made movies for Supergirl, Catwoman.

Fox made Elektra for Marvel, what these comic book heroines possess that WW doesn't ?

I mean, is there a particular reason why Studios think that making a movie based on Supergirl, Catwoman, Elektra is a better option as compared to WW ?
 
WB made movies for Supergirl, Catwoman.

Fox made Elektra for Marvel, what these comic book heroines possess that WW doesn't ?

I mean, is there a particular reason why Studios think that making a movie based on Supergirl, Catwoman, Elektra is a better option as compared to WW ?

Those movies, especially the last two weren't very well received. Studios need to put out some well written movies with female leads that make money. They need to lean less on using sex appeal to sell female characters as well in order to attract a wider audience. The Hunger Games is a great example of how to use a female character properly. Those movies are likeable for a wide audience.

Even though it can be argued that the quality of the movies you listed is the cause of their failure, they are still movies with female leads that did poorly. It depends on how studios look at things. They may interpret these results as a reason not to make female led movies.
 
There is nothing gender neutral about Katniss Everdeen.

That story doesn't even work without the sister-sister relationship.

Just because she doesn't do her nails for half the movie doesn't mean she's basically a boy.
 
Here comes Dr. Cosmic with his heroines have different tropes than male heroes stuff:

Katniss Everdeen isn't a superhero. She only kills three people in the Hunger Games, and one was a mercy killing. She loses every fight she gets in. Her body count in Catching Fire might even be smaller, iirc. Katniss kicking butt isn't what people care about or else no one would like the movies because they have so little of that. That's simply not what the most beloved heroines do, it's not why we like them.

Now if you're talking about a Wonder Woman who scarcely fights people and spends virtually all of her time hiding/running/surviving/being emotionally conflicted, then yeah, Katniss' popularity is a good benchmark. If not, then how is Katniss' popularity proof that a different type of character will be popular? How does that make sense?

To address the double standard: Katniss is proof that a female-led movie with some action in it can be popular, it is NOT proof that any female-led action movie can be equally popular. The fact that we have several quality female-led action movies (Kill Bill, Salt, Tomb Raider) that are only moderately popular shows that there are some female stories that resonate with a large audience, typically the types you see in YA books, for instance, and some that don't, typically the ones you see in B movies.

And this double standard goes both ways. Does anyone think Hunger Games would have been as popular with the genders flipped? Same story, just Katnik, Peelah and Gail as a triangle, this guy getting preened over trying to impress the Capital with his love story, which he's not very good at showing? And then getting into a few fights as he mostly hides from the career pack, and survives thanks to little Roo, sponsorship from Miss Haymitch and Peelah pretending she's with the Careers, and eventually gets his bow and arrow, and uses it to kill a grand total of two people, and one of those not even in a fight. Would it have been as popular if Peetah Mellark had been the central character, and it was a story about a boy trying to save an ornery little girl he's loved since he was little, who can fight better than he can, but still not all that well?

And then you have the effect where the same thing that causes lack of audience interest causes lack of crew interest, and makes for a worse film overall, that prevents a movie like Salt from being as good as a James Bond movie. I think we still live in a gender-coded society, and while we can argue what degree these expectations and roles are nature and what is nurture, we can even argue how just these expectations are, I think we can all agree they are there and they affect how movies are perceived.

So my question is: would you enjoy a Hunger Games/Terminator/Alien-type Wonder Woman, where she spends most of her time running and hiding from a threat/god that is simply too much for her to handle, where she survives, not by kicking butt with her super powers, but by wits and her relationships with others. Would that be interesting? Would that be Wonder Woman? Would WB ever do that?
 
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Here comes Dr. Cosmic with his heroines have different tropes than male heroes stuff:

Katniss Everdeen isn't a superhero. She only kills three people in the Hunger Games, and one was a mercy killing. She loses every fight she gets in. Her body count in Catching Fire might even be smaller, iirc. Katniss kicking butt isn't what people care about or else no one would like the movies because they have so little of that. That's simply not what the most beloved heroines do, it's not why we like them.

Now if you're talking about a Wonder Woman who scarcely fights people and spends virtually all of her time hiding/running/surviving/being emotionally conflicted, then yeah, Katniss' popularity is a good benchmark. If not, then how is Katniss' popularity proof that a different type of character will be popular? How does that make sense?

To address the double standard: Katniss is proof that a female-led movie with some action in it can be popular, it is NOT proof that any female-led action movie can be equally popular. The fact that we have several quality female-led action movies (Kill Bill, Salt, Tomb Raider) that are only moderately popular shows that there are some female stories that resonate with a large audience, typically the types you see in YA books, for instance, and some that don't, typically the ones you see in B movies.

And this double standard goes both ways. Does anyone think Hunger Games would have been as popular with the genders flipped? Same story, just Katnik, Peelah and Gail as a triangle, this guy getting preened over trying to impress the Capital with his love story, which he's not very good at showing? And then getting into a few fights as he mostly hides from the career pack, and survives thanks to little Roo, sponsorship from Miss Haymitch and Peelah pretending she's with the Careers, and eventually gets his bow and arrow, and uses it to kill a grand total of two people, and one of those not even in a fight. Would it have been as popular if Peetah Mellark had been the central character, and it was a story about a boy trying to save an ornery little girl he's loved since he was little, who can fight better than he can, but still not all that well?

And then you have the effect where the same thing that causes lack of audience interest causes lack of crew interest, and makes for a worse film overall, that prevents a movie like Salt from being as good as a James Bond movie. I think we still live in a gender-coded society, and while we can argue what degree these expectations and roles are nature and what is nurture, we can even argue how just these expectations are, I think we can all agree they are there and they affect how movies are perceived.

So my question is: would you enjoy a Hunger Games/Terminator/Alien-type Wonder Woman, where she spends most of her time running and hiding from a threat/god that is simply too much for her to handle, where she survives, not by kicking butt with her super powers, but by wits and her relationships with others. Would that be interesting? Would that be Wonder Woman? Would WB ever do that?

Buffy the vampire slayer is broadly considered one of the 20 greatest tv shows ever made, and Buffy is an active and aggressive protagonist.
 
the director of WW will have to have a real knack for visual effects and creature design... Guillermo del Toro is perfect for a full on mythical Wonder Woman film...
 
the director of WW will have to have a real knack for visual effects and creature design... Guillermo del Toro is perfect for a full on mythical Wonder Woman film...

This always amazes me. I've only seen one WW comic out of the maybe hundred or so I've read where she battled a mythical creature.

So do you think WB will make a WW movie?

Like I said before, eventually they make some cash grab. Unfortunately I have no faith that they'll give her the AAA tentpole treatment ever.

Buffy the vampire slayer is broadly considered one of the 20 greatest tv shows ever made, and Buffy is an active and aggressive protagonist.

Well, Katniss is also active and aggressive. Just because she can't beat up all her problems like a superhero doesn't make her passive in any way. Same with Sarah Connor or Ellen Ripley or any good hero of any type or stripe. Buffy is just another example of a high quality action female who is only moderately popular. That's part of why female action heroines like Buffy or the girl from Alias or the Bionic Woman (original) do so well on TV because they only need 5 or so million (non paying) viewers to be successful as opposed to a big budget film which needs 20 million viewers to plunk down 15 dollars to break even. Even TV shows where the female central character has some other main problem and *some* action like Katniss tend to be more popular than female action girl shows. The hottest shows, especially with female audiences are: Once Upon A Time, Scandal, Revenge. These shows that are popular with women, and by extension, everyone, they have some action, but the action is not the principle mechanism for solving problems, as it is for a superhero, neither is the heroine the most capable action hero around, as a superheroine would need to be. Action movie type action, in those shows, actually seems to cause more problems than it solves. They pull in numbers bigger than Buffy ever could, or Nikita ever could. Buffy was often on par, ratings wise, with a far inferior genre show with a female lead with only some action: Tru Calling.

It's not like high quality female action heroes don't exist, they just don't interest everyone. The reality is that we live in a society where women constantly feel threatened, and have to constantly fear for their safety at night. So how is a character who only rarely has to be threatened, how is that person relatable to a population who can't walk alone at night, or get drunk without a friend to watch over them? This is not to say there's not a place for characters who are not directly relatable, but it's just that it's usually as supporting cast.

When we look at the most popular incarnations of Wonder Woman, you have the constantly in peril Lynda Carter, you've got Marston's bondanged up vixen, you've got Gail Simone's Animated DTV where Wonder Woman spends the last half of the movie getting curbstomped and rescued until the final move, you've got JMS Odyssey where she's hiding and running from three Celtic gods (ignorant me, I didn't even know they had those til then), and New 52 Diana where she's running and hiding from Hera. Contrast with Gail Simone's superb run on WW comics - superb! - that really wasn't very popular at all.

I could go all day on this stuff. I'll stop now.
 
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Buffy had her own big screen movie.
 
This always amazes me. I've only seen one WW comic out of the maybe hundred or so I've read where she battled a mythical creature.



Like I said before, eventually they make some cash grab. Unfortunately I have no faith that they'll give her the AAA tentpole treatment ever.



Well, Katniss is also active and aggressive. Just because she can't beat up all her problems like a superhero doesn't make her passive in any way. Same with Sarah Connor or Ellen Ripley or any good hero of any type or stripe. Buffy is just another example of a high quality action female who is only moderately popular. That's part of why female action heroines like Buffy or the girl from Alias or the Bionic Woman (original) do so well on TV because they only need 5 or so million (non paying) viewers to be successful as opposed to a big budget film which needs 20 million viewers to plunk down 15 dollars to break even. Even TV shows where the female central character has some other main problem and *some* action like Katniss tend to be more popular than female action girl shows. The hottest shows, especially with female audiences are: Once Upon A Time, Scandal, Revenge. These shows that are popular with women, and by extension, everyone, they have some action, but the action is not the principle mechanism for solving problems, as it is for a superhero, neither is the heroine the most capable action hero around, as a superheroine would need to be. Action movie type action, in those shows, actually seems to cause more problems than it solves. They pull in numbers bigger than Buffy ever could, or Nikita ever could. Buffy was often on par, ratings wise, with a far inferior genre show with a female lead with only some action: Tru Calling.

It's not like high quality female action heroes don't exist, they just don't interest everyone. The reality is that we live in a society where women constantly feel threatened, and have to constantly fear for their safety at night. So how is a character who only rarely has to be threatened, how is that person relatable to a population who can't walk alone at night, or get drunk without a friend to watch over them? This is not to say there's not a place for characters who are not directly relatable, but it's just that it's usually as supporting cast.

When we look at the most popular incarnations of Wonder Woman, you have the constantly in peril Lynda Carter, you've got Marston's bondanged up vixen, you've got Gail Simone's Animated DTV where Wonder Woman spends the last half of the movie getting curbstomped and rescued until the final move, you've got JMS Odyssey where she's hiding and running from three Celtic gods (ignorant me, I didn't even know they had those til then), and New 52 Diana where she's running and hiding from Hera. Contrast with Gail Simone's superb run on WW comics - superb! - that really wasn't very popular at all.

I could go all day on this stuff. I'll stop now.

That is a high quality post, feel free to go on all day:-)
 
it's hard to get the public audience to buy into a female superhero film.
if there is a popular enough superhero that could pulll that off it should be
Wonder Woman. the huge question is who would be an idea, appealing cast for it, how SERIOUS can you make it, what will be the budget set for it, and who will be the deciding director that could pull this off ? and can he make it with
a great pace and character development, great CGI special effects and costumes designs ?

i do think one best bet is to tie Wonder Woman film as a spinoff from the
Justice League -and that's assuming that a JL film will indeed be very
successful. IF JL isn't .. then WW doesn't get off the ground.
if it does, then considering all the above credentials again, it could have
a chance.
 
I hope she has a solo film following BVS. She is as iconic as Batman and Superman, and has been put on the backburner for too long.
 

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