The Dark Knight Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

[Kargo Warrior]

Every time i rewatch Batman Begins, the jarring difference of quality of acting between the A-class actors (Bale, Freeman, Oldman, Neeson, Caine, Wilkinson, Murphy) and Katie Holmes is my biggest issue with the film. I find nothing about her performance or character believable.

I don't feel the same at all with Maggie. Was she the perfect casting? No, but she's entirely believable as an assistant DA in a way Katie never was, she has great chemistry with Eckhart (neither have any chemistry with Bale, but i don't think Bale had any chemistry with Hathaway or Cotillard either, so i don't blame Katie or Maggie for that. Bale was entirely too cold in that department.) I enjoy her performance a lot which is a great credit to her considering the level of acting in the The Dark Knight is on another level from Batman Begins. I shiver at the thought of Katie Holmes sharing scenes with all those actors.

What i wouldn't give for a Batman Begins cut with Maggie, without the ''nice coat'' fellow, without King Joffrey's ''my friends wouldn't believe me'' nonsense and without the 10 call backs in the last act. Small things to nitpick but they become very annoying by the 50th viewing.

The only thing that bothers me about The Dark Knight is the temerity to have an end!

 

[Gothamsknight]

I never had any issues with Katies performance in BB and I thought she did fine. But I will say that I think Maggie was a "Better Rachel", so to speak. I can't really explain why, but something about Maggies performance felt so natural, and I got used to the change in casting very quickly. She's also a phenomenal actress too, so that helps haha. Neither did a bad job, but Maggie was the better Rachel, in my opinion. I also feel like she was more comfortable in the role too.

I still can't believe Katie Holmes turned down The Dark Knight. Talk about missing the chance to be in one of the biggest movies of all time.

 

[Kargo Warrior]

I never had any issues with Katies performance in BB and I thought she did fine. But I will say that I think Maggie was a "Better Rachel", so to speak. I can't really explain why, but something about Maggies performance felt so natural, and I got used to the change in casting very quickly. She's also a phenomenal actress too, so that helps haha. Neither did a bad job, but Maggie was the better Rachel, in my opinion. I also feel like she was more comfortable in the role too.

I still can't believe Katie Holmes turned down The Dark Knight. Talk about missing the chance to be in one of the biggest movies of all time.

And for ''Mad Money'' of all movies! A box office bomb that made $26 million with 22% on Rotten Tomatoes.

It's interesting how some of these choices work. Aaron Eckhart has had a pretty bad run following The Dark Knight, and yet even 50 years from now, people will watch him as Harvey and enjoy his work.

I was rewatching The Dark Knight a couple of days ago and the main male cast is absolutely incredible, GOAT-tier level.

Bale (Oscar winner, multiple Oscar nominee)
Ledger (Oscar winner, multiple Oscar nominee)
Oldman (Oscar winner, multiple Oscar nominee)
Caine (Oscar winner, multiple Oscar nominee)
Freeman (Oscar winner, multiple Oscar nominee)
Eckhart, who was just as good as them in the film.

Really disappointing how his career turned after 2008.

 

[Gothamsknight]

And for ''Mad Money'' of all movies! A box office bomb that made $26 million with 22% on Rotten Tomatoes.

It's interesting how some of these choices work. Aaron Eckhart has had a pretty bad run following The Dark Knight, and yet even 50 years from now, people will watch him as Harvey and enjoy his work.

I was rewatching The Dark Knight a couple of days ago and the main male cast is absolutely incredible, GOAT-tier level.

Bale (Oscar winner, multiple Oscar nominee)
Ledger (Oscar winner, multiple Oscar nominee)
Oldman (Oscar winner, multiple Oscar nominee)
Caine (Oscar winner, multiple Oscar nominee)
Freeman (Oscar winner, multiple Oscar nominee)
Eckhart, who was just as good as them in the film.

Really disappointing how his career turned after 2008.

I agree so much. A perfect example of a powerhouse cast, and I still feel like Eckhart doesn't get the credit he deserves. He's such an underrated actor, and I thought he played Harvey so convincingly. I never saw that movie he was in called I, Franksenstein but I heard it wasn't good unfortunately.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I wanted McAdams for TDK

 

[Ken-Kaniff]

I never liked Katie Holmes, I wish Maggie was there from the start! At the time it seemed odd that Katie got the role considering what A List actors we had in the movie.

 

[The Batman]

Neither.

Honestly, the character needed better writing, and a performer that has strong acting skills, as well as good chemistry with Christian Bale.

Katie had slightly better chemistry with Bale, but wasn't a strong actor. Maggie is a strong actor, but had no chemistry with Bale.

 

[The Batman]

Elizabeth Olsen as Rachel Dawes in both.

...Do you really think the best pick to play Rachel, an ADA and grown women...is someone who was literally a teenager back in the mid-late 00s?

 

[Brother Jack]

Neither.

Honestly, the character needed better writing, and a performer that has strong acting skills, as well as good chemistry with Christian Bale.

Katie had slightly better chemistry with Bale, but wasn't a strong actor. Maggie is a strong actor, but had no chemistry with Bale.

Rachel works less as a love interest and more as a false hope for Bruce to project his desire for a life beyond Batman. So in TDK at least I think Bale's lack of chemistry with Gyllenhaal actually works in the film's favor, contrasted with her chemistry with Aaron Eckhardt. Katie Holmes functioned as a necessary moral compass for Bruce and tie to his childhood before the cave and the Wayne murders, and I think that utility is ultimately more important to the story. The whole thing is that they could never be together.

 

[The Batman]

Rachel works less as a love interest and more as a false hope for Bruce to project his desire for a life beyond Batman.

She doesn't work as either due to the lack of chemistry Bale has with her.

So in TDK at least I think Bale's lack of chemistry with Gyllenhaal actually works in the film's favor, contrasted with her chemistry with Aaron Eckhardt.

I don't think it works in the films favor at all, especially since the film is trying to portray Bruce/Rachel/Harvey as a love triangle. Due to the lack of chemistry she has with Bale, I don't buy that the character of Rachel, for example, has a reason to be hesitate accepting Harvey's proposal. Her choosing Dent should feel like somewhat of a surprise, given the nature of love triangles in film, instead it just falls flat due to the lack of chemistry between Bruce and Rachel.

Katie Holmes functioned as a necessary moral compass for Bruce and tie to his childhood before the cave and the Wayne murders, and I think that utility is ultimately more important to the story. The whole thing is that they could never be together.

They don't need to lack chemistry to achieve that ultimate goal, especially since part of Rachel's function is to be the love interest. With Batman Returns and Mask of the Phantasm, those films effectively pull off both the chemistry aspect and the doomed nature of those respective romances.

 

[BatLobster]

I don't think it's ever really presented as a 'real' love triangle in TDK. Only in Bruce's mind. It's sad, because Bruce naively thinks he has a chance from her when she's already moved on and sees no future with him, seeing that he's too far gone into his Batman mission. Of course, she still cares for him and yes they kiss once...though he clearly makes the move there. But it's clear Rachel's heart belongs to Harvey in the movie. As far as Rachel hesitating to accept Harvey's proposal...I just took that as him springing a huge question on her out of nowhere. She's a very strong-minded, independent woman and I wouldn't expect her character to just instantly say yes to an out of the blue and quite frankly, lazy proposal.

 

[BobJM]

I never understood the criticism towards Holmes in Batman Begins. She’s not blowing me away with the performance but her scenes with Bale and Caine are totally fine. That being said, I don’t think Holmes could have carried the scenes that Gyllenhaal had to perform in The Dark Knight—really, I’m just thinking of her death scene.

I prefer a third option and wish that Nolan had cast Rachel McAdams from the get-go instead.

Rachel McAdams as Rachel Dawes in 2005:

And again in 2008,

 

[J.Drangal]

Honestly, I had no particular problem with Katie Holmes.
But once Maggie Gyllenhall took over the role, she seemed to me to exude in a much more natural way that aura of authority and determination that Rachel Dawes' character is supposed to have. As for her chemistry with Bale, I think there were just too few scenes where this was really put to the test... But I'm perfectly fine with what it was.

Now, for the sake of the game, if I had to suggest an alternative casting, it would be Amy Adams.
I know she took part in the screen test, but I think she's a pretty good match for what the character was supposed to be, with perhaps the advantage of being a better "match" for Christian Bale.
In any case, despite her undiscutable talent and the fact that her version wasn't very well developed, she never gave off what I personally expected from Lois. Another great actress wasted in the CBM genre...

 

[Rick190293]

In my opinion Katie was fine in BB, and I think she'd be okay in TDK too. Maggie was slightly better. But I think the problem is the character itself, she's too much of a plot device for both films IMO.

 

[HydraSith12]

I prefer Katie as Rachel

 

[Dark Raven]

Should've cast Kimberly Sustad in The Dark Knight instead of Maggie Gyllenhaal. She would've looked very similar to Katie Holmes and even has some of the same facial expressions.