Yes, it kind of does. Makes you feel like it was all made so the joke could shine.
No, the joke is made after the whole fact to bring a little bit of levity and humanity to a very intense scene.
Batman potrays himself as a monster to the criminal underworld of Gotham, but not to the ordinary citizen. I think this line of dialogue conveys this perfectly. It's not what I would have preferred, but I don't think it kills the scene.
But then again Goyer had a party being repetitive and spoonfeeding in Begins.
Absolutely dialogue echoes in BEGINS as do themes, and yes it can be repetitive. Don't think this out weighs the good of the movie, or overtakes it.
Spoonfeeding was done, but it had a huge story and ground to cover. And technically I don't consider it spoon feeding when the point of the story is how Bruce Wayne develops into Batman.
I hate what David Goyer did for a reason. And not everyone is blind to those reasons.
Oh, they are acknowledged. Hardly makes BEGINS a bad movie ... and by that time it was well beyond all the previous incarnations. As a movie it out shined all the others.
At that point the movie has spent 2 hours making the point Gotham's villiains can't be stopped and thus Batman is needed.
No it didn't ... and Scarecrow wasn't that focus. The emphasis was that Gotham was CORRUPT at every turn.
Scarecrow was just a side distraction, a pawn in a bigger plan. So what's the big deal that his exit in the movie was getting off by a taser? He's back doing his thing inbetween BEGINS and TDK.
He wasn't "defeated" by the taser "from the girl" ... the girl being a strong idealist in Gotham who helped shaped Bruce Wayne's agenda. Not just some random chick.
Your disdain for BEGINS doesn't allow you to be properly objective.
Oh, yes. Scarecrow's epic comeback. It's so great he could come back for that.
Sure it was ... first time a minor villain was established in one movie and carried into the next to finally meet his demise. And one of the best re-introductions for a protagonist. Batman's opening re-entry in The Dark Knight is amazing. Very epic comeback for a rather trivial character and lesser rogue in Nolan's Batman cinematic universe.
Point is it wasn't a taser 'from some girl' that defeated him ... it was THE BATMAN.
Exactly. The point of the character in Goyer and Nolan's take was that the character wasn't good enough for Batman. Which leads me to think, then why having him there in the first place?
Because he's a good lesser villain for a rookie Batman to sharpen his teeth on and Crane's modus operandi echoes home Bruce Wayne's methodology and themes of the movie.
His inclusion was an obvious choice for Batman Begins.
The jokes are just one of them, and not the worst.
Well yea, they were hardly in there.
Dialogue wasn't meant to be natural from certain characters. It was dialogue that had to streamline in a condensed fashion how one man develops an ideology and goal to fight crime.
repetitiveness (and boy, was the dialogue here repetitive)
Agreed.
Katie Holmes (yes, she is a whole category)
Agreed.
I still don't understand why you feel the film was so bad though. I don't see you mentioning ANY of the overwhelming positives that came from Batman Begins.
A film that laid the necessary foundation for two better films, and the best superhero trilogy of all-time. Hell, a great cinematic trilogy period. Each film was head and shoulders an imporvement on what came before it.
As a Batman fan, how anyone could have disdain for a film that elevated the character to new heights on screen is unthinkable. Even with its flaws, those flaws PALE in comparison to much greater atrocities in the previous 4 films.
But it was TDK which set a definitive new tone. TDK fulfilled the promise BB only suggested.
That's all it needed to do. BEGINS was held back by genre limitations, and slight studio involvement. Once it proved and whet the appetite for something better and greater things to come ... it did its job quite well.
You can tell Nolan was only invested in the first 2 acts of the film, anyway. The rest was necessary fluff to make it a summer blockbuster. Once Nolan got full control, he re-invented the genre. BEGINS was fantastic in that it hinted at things to come. Which was it's ENTIRE purpose.
Make Batman and his world credible again ... and then go from there. Job well done as far as I'm concerned.
Begins tried the ultra serious tone.
Not really. It was a slightly more serious tone, equivelent to B89 ... maybe slightly more serious.
It still had its fair share of comic book overtones (which lead to some of the cheese and dialogue)
Nolan looked and saw what worked, and then without studio interferance ... took it even further in that direction that worked and connected w/ people in Begins ... ramping up the serious tone for TDK.
