World Donner Cut = Rubbish. Discuss.

yeah, but donner and menk say in the commentary that they were planning on coming up with a new ending for 2 after Superman was released. the spinning the world back works better in the first one, and i'm sure they would have come up with something different and cool for their actual Superman 2.

Thank you, that's what I was trying to say. That's why I said it wouldn't have been the ending to Superman II, if Donner had been able to finish it, because he was planning to come up with a new ending!
 
Thank you, that's what I was trying to say. That's why I said it wouldn't have been the ending to Superman II, if Donner had been able to finish it, because he was planning to come up with a new ending!

But it would have been the ending had everything gone to plan. It was the ending planned fromt he start when the whole project was one huge script split into two.

The 'reverse-time' ending was originally planned for Superman II, not the first film.

It was only added to the first film when all the crap with the Salkinds started.

This is Superman II as originally, orginally conceived, as written.
 
Had Donner been able to finish Supes 2, he and Mank would have re-writen the ending and gotten rid of the time reversal thing. They have said it on the DVD. When they moved the Time reversal thing to STM, it was the last thing they shot on the movie, and it was a second shoot, in which they went back to the location as the last thing they shot on the film. They had abandoned any work on S2 by that point. The reason they put the time turning back thing is because the only other option they had was the Kiss of forgetfullness, which Mank said that Clark should never kiss Lois, only Supes should. Since they only had two options, they went with the time turning back one. It wasn't like they could reshoot a new ending. They had a budget to deal with and their lead actor was dead, and if he wasn't, he would have been 30 years older and in a wheelchair. But had they been able to go and finish it after the release of STM, there would have been a different ending. Also, I hated that stupid kiss of forgetfulness. That is as bad as the beams that shoot out of their hands and levitate people, or the Cellophane S.
 
I don't know, I wasn't a fan of the Donner Cut as I have said before. I think I was expecting to much, and as you said Buggs, they didn't have all the bullets in the gun to work with.
 
Yeah. They shot 70% of a film. Had to use a different directors footage and test footage, and I think they still would have shot more. Donner said he would have brought back Hackman and Brando for extra stuff, and I think they would have wrote and shot more. This is a patch job and is clearly stated as that is the fact. I mean for all of it's faults, I still think the Donner stuff is still light years ahead of Lester's stuff. I do take issue with the turning back time stuff, but they only had two options, and it was nice to see the other option, even if they would have done something completely different when they went back to work on it.
 
I think the Donner Cut deceived some people,now hear me out.Rather than it be an alternate way to view Superman II it's more like what the film might of been like if Donner was left on as the director.Because as he has said in an interview(I don't know where so don't ask)that he only shot about 85% of the film and he had to fill some of it in with Lester footage to fill in a few gaps.But the point is Donner didn't film everything needed to make this film 100% so in my opinion it's just a nice what could have been.Although I do believe if Donner could go back and complete this film it would be five times better than Lester's version,but right not it's just a very choppy and clearly unfinished film .
 
Hey everyone! :)

I just got to see the Richard Donner cut of Superman II on Friday night and all I could think was thank heavens this was not the version released because it was rubbish.

Over the past few months the hype has been building up, and people have been singing its praises. But after having seen it, Richard Lester's version blows it out of the water. I was watching it with a group of friends and they were all disappointed.

Okay, so thats just my opinion, so lets get to the details of why.

1. Illogical

1a. Lois Shooting Clark with blanks and then he reveals his identity. Superman could see whether there was a bullet coming at him or not. When he saw there was not he should have just fainted.

1b. What was the point of Superman transforming into a human. He had already slept with Lois, so clearly it was safe to biologically 'love' her.

1c. The Rocky fight at the end. Given that Superman had went back in time. Superman basically beat up Rocky for something he didn't do.

2. Less Action/Excitement

2a. No Kryptonians versus the locals! That scene built up the menace nicely and got them noticed by the media in the first place. Here we just get them talking to the media with no reason for why a camera crew was there.

2b. No fight between Superman and the Kryptonians at the Fortress of Solitude. Okay, so Superman purists will roll their eyes at some of the powers and the plastic 'S', but it was a cool, interesting scene that was alot better than Superman just giving up (which he does in the Donner cut).

3. Less Fun

3a. The scene with the Sheriff and his Deputy encountering the Kryptonians for the first time was cut to ribbons.

3b. The 'bar room brawl' with the Kryptonians in the town was also cut.

4. Less Dramatic

4a. No "General Zod...would you care to step outside" line. Richard Donner cut the best line in the movie. The iconic Superman smack talk. Frankly I was sickened to the pit of my stomach that Donner cut this line.

4b. No replacing the flag on the Whitehouse. Now I am not an American, but even I felt the gravitas of that scene. Again cut by Donner.

5. Devils Advocate...was it all so bad...?

Okay, there were a few good scenes added, but nothing removed (with the possible exception of the Brando scene) was removed for the better.

5a. The Lois falling out the window scene was a nice scene.

5b. The Lois shooting Clark scene had one good line (the one about the price of roses).

5c. I think there were some extra moments at the Whitehouse that were good (such as Zod using the M16).

5d. Lex taking the coffee from Jimmy. Jimmy being mistaken for Superman.

All of the above could have been added to the Lester cut. Its not the additions I am criticising, it is the replacements and scenes from the original that were deleted.

Overall.

To think that Richard Donner will get paid for this is the biggest insult since Bryan Singer cashed a cheque for $50 million dollars for Superman Returns.

Speaking of which, going by the Donner Cut, Superman and Lois never slept together!

The true unsung hero of all this is Richard Lester.
Lester is a hack. A hack. He isn't a hero. Cellophane S's. Laser beams coming out of their fingers. Kiss of forgetfull-ness. Don't get me started on that stupid juicer hurting his hand. Lester is so good, jsut take a look at Superman 3. He didn't have to follow the Donner laid storyline, so that was his alone. He isn't the unsung hero. He is a hack. Mid-western kids that talk like a British kid. Come on. Lester is a hack. Donner's version is far superior. And he only filmed 70 percent of it. If Donner had been able to finish 2 back then, there would not have been a turning back time. But even with that, it is step far superior to Lester's piece of junk. Lester turned NON into an idiot kid. He also tamed Zod. Stupid. Lester didn't know the character, and his parts are just terrible.

And the scenes between Jor-El and Reeve are far superior to anything in Lester's version. Also, Hackman's extra scenes are far better, and Kidder is so much more livlier and enjoyable and you actually get that they love each other.
 
personally, I'd rather have Lester's RIC over Donner's Superman II...
 
Superman 4 was better than this piece of garbage. I'm actually glad Donner was fired. He would have killed the franchise right then and there. Turning time back AGAIN!!! Worst idea ever.
 
Superman 4 was better than this piece of garbage. I'm actually glad Donner was fired. He would have killed the franchise right then and there. Turning time back AGAIN!!! Worst idea ever.

have you been reading any of the other posts?
 
Superman 4 was better than this piece of garbage. I'm actually glad Donner was fired. He would have killed the franchise right then and there. Turning time back AGAIN!!! Worst idea ever.

Man, collect some information before showing us you don't know what you're talking about.
 
Superman 4 was better than this piece of garbage. I'm actually glad Donner was fired. He would have killed the franchise right then and there. Turning time back AGAIN!!! Worst idea ever.
originally, he wouldn't of used reversing time again... that was supposed to be the end of SII... the original ending of STM did not have Superman reversing time.
 
Btw, I was about to spend a lot of money buying the Donner Cut today and now I read all this.
 
For me, the Donner cut is a more enjoyable experience than the Laster version, just because of the more dramatic elements that where lacking in Lesters.

I'll just say this, the film we saw was only about, what, 70% of Donner footage? So plot problems may arise. Donner himself has said that if he had the chance to finish Superman II, he would have reshot a lot of scenes, the ending being the main thing to redo.

I really wish we got to see the complete Donner film. In everyaspect, i would've been an amazing film.
 
For me, the Donner cut is a more enjoyable experience than the Laster version, just because of the more dramatic elements that where lacking in Lesters.

I'll just say this, the film we saw was only about, what, 70% of Donner footage? So plot problems may arise. Donner himself has said that if he had the chance to finish Superman II, he would have reshot a lot of scenes, the ending being the main thing to redo.

I really wish we got to see the complete Donner film. In everyaspect, i would've been an amazing film.

Yeah, but we're not judging what Donner intended, we're judging the DVD, "Superman II - The Richard Donner Cut." We EXCEPT that many problems are caused by the fact he didn't shoot everything he wanted, but GIVEN THAT, what is your opinion on the actual film, not the intended one?
 
Yeah, but we're not judging what Donner intended, we're judging the DVD, "Superman II - The Richard Donner Cut." We EXCEPT that many problems are caused by the fact he didn't shoot everything he wanted, but GIVEN THAT, what is your opinion on the actual film, not the intended one?

I think i said it in my first paragraph. Read it.

But i'll say it again. I found it more enjouyable than the Lester version. It was more dramatic, and darker. It also had the right amounts of hunour in it.
 
There are problems in the Donner cut, because he wasn't able to film everything he wanted. This isn't a definitive director's cut, because as talented as Donner is, he can't make something out of nothing. He couldn't go back and reshoot a different ending, it's been almost thirty years since he originally filmed this movie.

But even given the problems, it's still far, far, far superior to the Lester version, which is only entertaining in a strictly B-movie, so-bad-it's-good camp way. Kind of like the Adam West Batman movie. I never got any sense of menace from the Phantom Zone villains in the Lester version. They were jokes. I had no sympathy for the people in that hick town they were terrorizing, because they were such obvious charicatures. It was pathetic.

Never have I understood why so many people praise Lester's version, even some going so far as to say it's better than Superman: The Movie. Lester's version was nothing but crap.

What we have here is the best Donner could compile. Yes, turning back time is not a satisfactory ending, and Donner himself admits that. But this is what we had to work with.

And Upper_Krust, it doesn't matter if Superman and Lois are married in the comics -- that's the comics. Nobody ever said it was outside the realm of possibility. But it's Donner's interpretation that Superman can't have his cake and eat it, too. Just like it's Donner's interpretation that Clark should never kiss Lois, which is why he didn't use that ending. To say that his interpretation is wrong just because hack comic writers did something different almost twenty years later is ******ed.

Oh, and you could make a better Superman movie? Please. Those snippets you posted of your "epic masterpiece" earlier in this thread had me groaning. It was the typical fanboy approach to how comic book movies should be made. Once you've directed a film that's on par of the quality of The Omen or The Usual Suspects, then you can go around claiming that you're a more capable filmmaker than Donner and Singer. Because going by your ideas so far, I'd be surprised if you were up to Uwe Boll's quality.
 
Why is it that Superman can't be with Lois and still have his powers, why did Jor-El say he had to live as one of them?
 
He's Brando. He just have the wildest ideas and you just have to live with them.
 
The definitive version of Superman II will never happen, because as a lot of folks have already pointed out-Donner was not ableto complete his vision for the film.

The next best thing to that is a combination of Lester and donner's version.Much as I'm not a fan of the "super kiss' at the end of Lester's version, it did hoild a certain emotional resonance, and should be left in.Same thing with Lois discovering Clark's identity.Lester's version is a lot more believable and better executed.Additionally,the flag scene at the whitehouse in the finale and "general, would you care to step outside?" and the "we used to play this game in high school, I never was very good at it" fight scene at the fortress.

My cut of Superman II would feature all the footage of the Donner cut, but also include those above Lester scenes.

Also,inexpicably, a real good deleted scene was left out of the Donner cut- the guy that bumps in to Clark and tells him to watch were he's going at the elevator.Weird.:huh:
 
I agree, the definitive SII will never happen.

the "we used to play this game in high school, I never was very good at it" fight scene at the fortress.

Just to know, what's exactly good about that?
 

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