"Down Came The Goblin, and Took The Spider Out" - Willem Dafoe Needs His Thread Too

Discussion in 'Spider-Man: No Way Home' started by Spider-Aziz, Jun 3, 2021.

  1. Spidey_62 You just don't get it!

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    I think people are just basking in the fun that was his performance here, he brought the menace and that was what he was there for. I agree with you, Ock's the best villain this franchise has had but Dafoe was a close second. Getting to the nitty gritty it probably comes down to preference for some because they're both just so enjoyable to watch in the roles. It does bring up an interesting point though because Goblin's motivation here is pretty light and a lot of what makes him work is the fact that it relies on it being the Raimi character/Dafoe bringing it.

    This movie works best if you're just an all around Spider-Man fan and have seen all the movies, I can't imagine how some are out there going into this without having seen the previous movies because a lot of the real weight of all the legacy characters comes from the prior context. I mean it all works as it is which is a miracle, but it's really enriched with the larger meanings.
     
  2. Toomes' Phone Registered

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    I read this in Alfred Molina's voice.
     
  3. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    That might be the biggest compliment I've ever gotten here. Thank you :otto:
     
  4. Toomes' Phone Registered

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    And tbh since I saw NWH I've been waffling on which one of them actually has the top spot. That's what happens when you have two fantastic actors playing two fantastic villains. But having a favorite is understandable.
     
  5. Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    They are easily the best 2 in Spidey cinematic history. I will never say never when it comes to at least the possibility that they could be topped one day though.
     
  6. Toomes' Phone Registered

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    Yeah tbh they're tied for #1 for me. Vulture's at #2. The rest flip flop.
     
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  7. TheWallCrawler hero or a menace?

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    One thing I wasn't too keen on was the costume design for Norman/Goblin. The purple hoodie element looked particularly lame. It's a testament on Dafoe's acting ability that he was still able to make it work.
     
  8. Gothamsknight A Dark Knight

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    Dafoe was fantastic in this, but yes, I don't see how he has more depth here than he did in S-M1. He carried over the greatness he deliver in S-M1. He was great in both movies, and prove swhy he is such an amazing actor to begin with. He wooped Hollands butt! The beating he gave Tobey was much worse though.
     
  9. Gothamsknight A Dark Knight

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    Agreed. Trying ot convince my brother to see No Way Home and he wants to, but he's only seen the Raimi movies and none of the others. I'm not really sure what to do at this point.
     
  10. Green Goblin Crawling on walls

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    I don't really know what people were expecting. His Goblin persona was basically fighting for survival in this and that seems like a fine motivation to me. Maybe it's because at the villains panel they over-hyped is motivations.
     
  11. The Infernal Mky Mk

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    Dafoe was awesome in this and it was great to see him and Molina interact. I wish they could of had more time together. The fight in Happy's home was great. You got a real sense of just how strong Goblin was.
     
    #436 The Infernal, Dec 18, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2021
  12. Another_Fool Registered

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    I think it's a continuity error. However a buddy of mine has a head canon that it was one of those things that those who shared the same scientific circles essentially knew it was him but it just wasn't public knowledge. I think though Flint contradicts my pal's theory since he says it was all over the news.
     
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  13. The Infernal Mky Mk

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    Yeah, it's a plothole. Had they just left it to Ock being surprised at seeing Osborn in the dungeon and he and Flint mentioning that he died rather than publicly being known as the Green Goblin then it would have worked fine with nothing else changed.
     
  14. Toomes' Phone Registered

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    And that's fine! Plot holes are fine as long as they don't actively hamper the story or the quality of the film, and this one didn't. Again, this ain't Cinemasins.
     
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  15. godisawesome Registered

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    Eh, I think of all the villains, Goblin always had the most directly malicious and philosophically immoral one that’s in direct opposition to the “power/responsibility” ethos of the Parker. Even back in Spider-Man 1, he pretty quickly establishes that even once he’s accomplished all of Norman’s strategic business goals, he just wants to lord over and abuse his power on the city’s populace because that’s what he believes power - his, Spidey’s, Electro’s, anyone’s - is for.

    In contrast, every other villains has some other more modest and personal motivation - even Electro, who has the closest motivation to lining ups it’s Goblin’s, really just wants to not be ignored and instead respected/cared about.

    Goblin’s the only one who would, even in defeat, revel in someone forsaking responsibility just to feed their whims - which became the main emotional push of the climax.
     
  16. The Caped Knight Shield Avenger

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  17. CadeSkywalker28 Registered

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    Goblin's goggles indeed have yellow/orange tint, but we can only see it for split of a second when Tom uses his bomb to destroy the glider. I don't get why they didn't gave us even one clear shot of his new look.

    [​IMG]
     
    #442 CadeSkywalker28, Dec 19, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
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  18. TheWallCrawler hero or a menace?

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    It didn't really bother me, but it's a pretty sloppy mistake and I can see how it could bother some people. Norman's fate being a secret was a big driving force of the Harry-story throughout the original trilogy. When Sandman stated that it was all over the news, for a moment I was taken out of the movie as I tried to connect the dots in my head.

    Just saying plotholes are subjective. Logical cohesion is a significant factor for many people's enjoyment of a film. In this case I'd say it's a very small splinter on the integrity of the story. Nothing more, nothing less.
     
  19. Mr. Peanut Registered

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    Was it ever outright stated that Harry and everyone else didn't know Osborn was the Green Goblin? Or was that just something people inferred from the fact that Harry thought Spider-man killed his dad and later acted weirded out when he discovered a huge hidden lab full of Goblin stuff?
     
  20. darthcoolness3 Registered

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    Raimi only showcased that Harry and his butler knew of Norman being the Green Goblin in 2 and 3
     
  21. Gothamsknight A Dark Knight

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    What we got of them together was so damn good. You can tell Otto genuinely cared for him too.
     
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  22. Mr. Peanut Registered

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    But was it explicitly stated that only they knew?

    I'm gonna need to rewatch the Raimi trilogy again to confirm exactly how much wiggle room was in there.
     
  23. JannTosh Registered

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    Guess maybe Sandman’s knowledge can be justified in that after Harry’s death, the Goblin lair was discovered in Norman’s house and the identity of both Goblin’s were revealed to the public

    Ock’s knowledge, eh, guess he immediately recognized the Goblin’s laugh as Norman?
     
  24. AndrewGilkison Registered

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    Otto is a smart guy, so maybe he always suspected Norman was the Goblin? I mean, the guy was flying around the city in military grade hardware targeting Oscorp board members at the Macy's thanksgiving day parade and Oscorp research sites. Wouldn't take much for a genus level scientist to put two and two together.
     
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  25. Detective Conan Registered

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    If Marvel ever does an actual MCU Norman after NWH, it would have to be very, very different from what we’ve seen before. I’d imagine the best route to take character now would be to make him a younger who has this reputation for being this wealthy philanthropist but it’s all a facade he projects to steer suspicion of his illegal experiments on humans or Mutants. I wouldn’t have him as a Spider-Man villain, but I would use him to menace to other heroes in the MCU like Fantastic Four or something.
     
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