Rise of the Silver Surfer DR. DOOM/Julian McMahon Discussion

[Spade]

Doom had a better voice in the Corman version and that's a fact. ****, he even had a better costume in that version!

I don't think McMahon is a bad actor. I really don't. He just doesn't embody Doom in any way, shape, or fashion in these movies. I think maybe he could, but the material just doesn't allow him to.

The simple fact that Doom has these pithy one-liners in the movie shows how wrong it is.

110% correct. I said it in my review- Story chose a guy who doesn't display what makes Doom great, and even if he could the material of the script is incredibly weak. Not even studio involvement can account for some of the suckitude in this portrayl. He's not bad at all in Nip/ Tuck (even though I don't like the series itself). I just don't think that the Harry Osborn angst equates to Doom. There's a sense of regal tone and haughtiness missing in Story's Doom, and McMahon doesn't really make it better.

I've given the guy the leeway of the first movie. This movie was an improvement in most categories, but Doom stood incomplete. It's about time forgiveness and second chances be cast aside.

 

[Bishop2]

FOX wont let him use an accent. I remember he planned on using one in the first movie but the execs hated it...

Yeah, the audio commentary on the first film reveals that he apparently tried a LOT of accents. He starts with Easter European sort of Transylvanian-style accent, also tried a British accent at one point... ultimately Fox execs demanded he go with an American accent.

 

[Spade]

Well, they also wanted him without the mask in the first film (which they got in this film for a bit). Maybe the declining profit of this film will teach them that messing with time-honored tradition for the sole sake of modernization is always a bad idea.

 

[TheVileOne]

An accent isn't essential. He didn't have an accent in the 90's cartoon. He didn't have one in the Corman version.

His voice simply had POWER AND EDGE to it. McMahon's voice doesn't have that at all in these movies. And Doom does not CRACK WISE. Doom is not Spider-man. Yet why like the first movie is he constantly making little jokes? Doom as a character has always been above that. When people do that in his presence, it ticks him off.

Just as comparison. When Ian McKellan plays Magneto, his voice has that power and edge. When I saw the first X-men movie, the time I really got it, was when without even seeing McKellan's face he said, "Are you snooping around up here, Charles? Whatever are you looking for?" It gave me chills. It felt like, this sounded like a person who has seen some **** and he's going to deliver it. It sounded exactly like Magneto, and more than that it felt like something Magneto should say.

Now before X-men came out, people complained that McKellan was too old for Magneto, doesn't look like him and stuff like that. But think about this. The man's a holocaust survivor, and more than likely a world traveler and well educated. So he should be an older guy with experience. He shouldn't be a young and very spry looking guy. Though despite his age, McKellan made Magneto look like a man of stature, poise, and superiority. That's exactly what Magneto should have.

When McMahon is in the conference room in his casual clothes, he doesn't have any of that. It felt wrong that he was even there meeting them like that in such clothes.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well, they also wanted him without the mask in the first film (which they got in this film for a bit). Maybe the declining profit of this film will teach them that messing with time-honored tradition for the sole sake of modernization is always a bad idea.

What happened to Tim Story's promise of getting Doom right this time and giving him "so much to do?"

 

[Spade]

What happened to Tim Story's promise of getting Doom right this time and giving him "so much to do?"

As I've opined, it went no place. This was a story originally about how Doom stole the Surfer's powers with superior intellect and went on a rampage, only stopped when Galactus showed his face and Doom came to the realization that he was a speck in comparison (which then illicited his forced team-up). This movie chose to overextrapolate on the military element, when the resources of Latveria could have provided Doom with the capacity to take down the Surfer himself.

Story chose greenlight Payne's decision to put a hackneyed military stereotype as "the bad guys", when the ultimate villain was right there with all the capacities to take the fore in this film way back when he's tracking the Surfer with no need to stupidly confront him without the FF's help in de-powering him. It came off badly.

 

[Bishop2]

What happened to Tim Story's promise of getting Doom right this time and giving him "so much to do?"

Frankly, I felt that they did. Mostly. The only thing I didn't like about Doom in this film was the lack of gravity to his voice. Everything else kicked my ass.

 

[TheVileOne]

In what way? He seemed exactly the same as he did in the first film. We see like 2 seconds of Latveria and Doom generally acts in ways and says things he never would.

 

[Bishop2]

In what way? He seemed exactly the same as he did in the first film. We see like 2 seconds of Latveria and Doom generally acts in ways and says things he never would.

I thought he was much more threatening this time - even as "Victor" with his McMachon face, instead of hamming and grinning, he's keeping his voice low, smirking, whispering - playing things quiet and more menacing. And he's much more intelligent. He bides his time, waits until he has his game lined up perfectly before striking instead of just randomly engaging in a frickin' street fight. He makes ONE one-liner ("Let's all go for a SPIN!"), true, but that's it - otherwise he plays the role straight. Yes, we see Latveria, we see his castle. He even gets to call Reed "Richards!" Overall, a vast improvement. I was very impressed.

 

[TheVileOne]

As I've opined, it went no place. This was a story originally about how Doom stole the Surfer's powers with superior intellect and went on a rampage, only stopped when Galactus showed his face and Doom came to the realization that he was a speck in comparison (which then illicited his forced team-up). This movie chose to overextrapolate on the military element, when the resources of Latveria could have provided Doom with the capacity to take down the Surfer himself.

Story chose greenlight Payne's decision to put a hackneyed military stereotype as "the bad guys", when the ultimate villain was right there with all the capacities to take the fore in this film way back when he's tracking the Surfer with no need to stupidly confront him without the FF's help in de-powering him. It came off badly.

Ugh, don't even get me started on that crap. I hated that sub-plot. I hate those cliche stock character types.

You pretty much nailed it though.

 

[StylishHokie21]

What happened to Tim Story's promise of getting Doom right this time and giving him "so much to do?"

Haha! Did he really say that? Typical. I felt Doom was a waste personally. Why was he even in the movie? They already ****ed him up in the first movie.

 

[Still A ThorFan]

Honestly he was the worst actor in the whole movie.

 

[Prognosticator]

Doom had a better voice in the Corman version and that's a fact. ****, he even had a better costume in that version!

I don't think McMahon is a bad actor. I really don't. He just doesn't embody Doom in any way, shape, or fashion in these movies. I think maybe he could, but the material just doesn't allow him to.

The simple fact that Doom has these pithy one-liners in the movie shows how wrong it is.

So true...so true. The WORST part about this for me (or the best?) is that how many times were we told "We're getting back to Doom" or "FF2 will have a much more true version of Doom", etc...

Ooooookay? I wonder if Tim Story even knows how to read a comic?? I could have directed Julian's acting better than Story. Hell, Stan Lee could have!

 

[uchiha_itachi]

i reckon stan lee should direct a short film

 

[Prognosticator]

I was kidding! Stan Lee needs to stay 100 yards aways from Marvel projects at all times!

 

[Bishop2]

Stan Lee needs to stay 100 yards aways from Marvel projects at all times!

Is that supposed to be sarcasm? Because... you know... Stan Lee, staying away from Marvel projects...

Heh...

Funny.

 

[Johnichi Chiba]

Well I mean Stan did some great stuff and all way back in the day, but I mean Stan nowadays seems a little off his rocker...Stripperella anyone?

 

[Prognosticator]

Is that supposed to be sarcasm? Because... you know... Stan Lee, staying away from Marvel projects...

Heh...

Funny.

No argument Stan "the man" Lee is THE most influential ICON in comics history. History. There's a reason he was run off by Marvel when he was. Lee couldn't write himself out of a wet paper bag today, IMO.

 

[Bishop2]

There's a reason he was run off by Marvel when he was. Lee couldn't write himself out of a wet paper bag today, IMO.

When exactly was he "run off"?

Hey, I realize that "Just Imagine" wasn't exactly a hot series, but the "Stan Leen meets..." series got some acclaim, especially the Spider-Man issue.

 

[Retroman]

Although McMahon didn't attend the premiere he was present at a special screening.
http://www.advance.org/en/cev/?325

 

[Yodaman]

I prefer some of the novels that came out around 4 or 5 years ago written by Pierce Askgren or Danny Fingeroth teaming up Spider-Man with the Hulk, than Iron Man and finally the Fantastic Four. Doom was most prominent in the last book where he harnessed the power of the Negative Zone (which would make a great comeback in an FF movie).

Which one is that? Pretty much all those novels have Doom as the villian

 

[uchiha_itachi]

I really haven't seen much of an accent mentioned in the comics except for that one time when Doom used the Ovoid Mindsway with a bystander at the last second to avoid getting blown into dust when Terrax and the Silver Surfer had their fight in FF#260. The man's name was Norman McArthur and his wife complained that he came home from the supermarket talking like Arnold Swartzenengger. I always thought that would sound silly myself.

I prefer some of the novels that came out around 4 or 5 years ago written by Pierce Askgren or Danny Fingeroth teaming up Spider-Man with the Hulk, than Iron Man and finally the Fantastic Four. Doom was most prominent in the last book where he harnessed the power of the Negative Zone (which would make a great comeback in an FF movie). The novel describes his voice as somewhat cultured, as befitting someone educated at Oxford, with only a very slight accent ... which Julian did sneak into one scene in the first film or they just didn't reshoot. I would surmise that Doom would sound no different than say Rutger Hauer. Someone who speaks the King's English fluently but with a slight but unplaceable accent. Many Europeans are fluent in multiple languages and with young Victor having been educated abroad, I think a heavy accent would be incorrect. Plus, Doom being Doom, he would task himself to learn any languange fluently. In the comics, he even learned to speak Atlantean and was able to decypher Russian cryptology in addition to his native Romany language.

i agree with every point in that

 

[Iron Maiden]

Which one is that? Pretty much all those novels have Doom as the villian

My memory has to be jogged on which one of the trilogy but I would have to think it may have been the second, where one of the SAFE agents (they couldn't use SHIELD for some copyright reason at the time) has been captured in Latveria. It did give a description of the voice. I'd have to dig those up out of storage.

See, I think Doom's voice should be not much different from the style used by Frank Langella in the 1970's Dracula (another Eastern European icon t: ) He didn't go for the Lugosi-style accent nor did he overplay it. To tell the truth, most stage trained actors, like Langella (just one this year's Tony) or as mentioned Ian McKellan do have the advantage over screen actors in that their is an emphasis on the voice in the theater.
But I really didn't think there was a problem with Julian's voice at all.... and I will use another example... Anthony Hopkins Hannibal Lector. His voice had a quiet, deliberate tone of menace to it... not an over the top video game version.

 

[Iron Maiden]

Although McMahon didn't attend the premiere he was present at a special screening.
http://www.advance.org/en/cev/?325

Hey, RM.... Sue from the McMahoniacs MB found photos of the event with Julian doing a Q & A. Too bad there's no transcript but it looks like it was a hit with the kids. I wonder why there's a picture of Raquel Welch mixed in there though... I think she would have made a great Medusa from the Inhumans for the movies.

 

[Brian Braddock]

I don't think that Macmahons a bad actor - I just think the failure to realise a truly faithful Doom in these movies is down to a mixture of Story not getting the character right in the 1st place (which has been covered before at length by better posters than me), and his casting of someone completely wrong for Doom.

When I say completely wrong for Doom, I don't mean looks wise, or even voice wise (although I agree with VileOne that his voice didnt suit); no - I mean attitude wise. IMO Macmahons approach to the role was completely wrong. The guy admitted he never read comics and seemed to treat them as just kids stuff. He approached the role as such.

I cringe every time an actor talks about their role in a comicbook film when they say something to the effect of 'it was a great oppurtunity to ham it up and leave the subtlety at the door' - basically they just see it as a cartoon/pantomime role, and just a bit of a lark.

I've lost count of the amount of times i've read an interview with Macmahon and he's said something to this effect - basically pretending to know the character when he actually knows jack ****.

Look at the way Bale approaches his role as Batman - here's a guy who treats whatever he works on with a seriousness and respect for the role - it's a shame Story didnt cast someone with the same ethic.