Rise of the Silver Surfer DR. DOOM/Julian McMahon Discussion

[Iron Maiden]

I agree that there was no ressemblance to Norman Osborne this time ...and it is odd that there still has been no official images of Doom released thus far. It's too bad that if there is a third movie to be made that the chances are they won't return to the character and take the final step to make things right. I'd love to see him take over Latveria. The novelization made some very specific references to the country being in bad economic shape and it's things like this that makes one wonder if there were more things to do with that in one of the drafts of the script.

 

[Qwerty©]

Maybe I am crazy...but first off, there was no Norman Osborn clone this time in FF2....okay, what did we have this time that was Doom-like: we had the manipulations, the plotting, the genius, outdoing Richards, yelling Richards, the throne, Latveria, power mad, the bad ass armor, and the theft of the cosmic powers....what did I miss that is bad about Julian McMahon playing as Doom? Well, I know I am not alone on this board who felt that Doom was much improved and a lot closer to what he is suppose to be so I am not going to argue....

What did you miss?

You missed that despite those little scraps that were thrown at the fanboys to get a positive reaction, Julian McMahon did not come across as a pure evil megalomaniac with an extreme superiority complex and a massive temper. No. He came off as someone who was mean and had a grudge.

Stuff like the armour, Latveria and his throne were such tiny parts of the movie that I wouldn't be surprised if they were put in there solely to make the fans stop whining.

They didn't get Doom right first time, and tried to dress him up as Doom this time. But I'm not so easily pleased.

 

[Iron Maiden]

And a lot of fans who grew up where Doom was already an established character don't realize that it took around 2 and a half years for Jack and Stan to even put together a proper origin for Doom. Latveria was never mentioned until FF Annual #2 and for all we knew, Victor was an American up until then. No doubt, they blew it for the first movie but things now stand he's only a revolution away from being Doom from the comics. The movies are concentrating on the team members anyway and the character of Victor Von Doom just is not going to get the kind of screen time needed until they open up the film to a longer running time.

 

[GoblinScrier]

And a lot of fans who grew up where Doom was already an established character don't realize that it took around 2 and a half years for Jack and Stan to even put together a proper origin for Doom. Latveria was never mentioned until FF Annual #2 and for all we knew, Victor was an American up until then. No doubt, they blew it for the first movie but things now stand he's only a revolution away from being Doom from the comics. The movies are concentrating on the team members anyway and the character of Victor Von Doom just is not going to get the kind of screen time needed until they open up the film to a longer running time.

Is it any wonder why I look forward to your posts on the board, IM? You are such a great person to listen to...especially when it comes to Doom

 

[Mercurius]

And a lot of fans who grew up where Doom was already an established character don't realize that it took around 2 and a half years for Jack and Stan to even put together a proper origin for Doom. Latveria was never mentioned until FF Annual #2 and for all we knew, Victor was an American up until then. No doubt, they blew it for the first movie but things now stand he's only a revolution away from being Doom from the comics. The movies are concentrating on the team members anyway and the character of Victor Von Doom just is not going to get the kind of screen time needed until they open up the film to a longer running time.

I think McMahon is not the right guy for the job, nor, for that matter, both director & writer.

IMO, we are far from having Doom as he should be. And I suspect Doom is, as in your really nice signature, "deeply insulted" with those flicks.

 

[Tony Stark]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think McMahaon has done a great job considering what he had to work with.

Like I said, playing a bad guy is the hardest thing in the world, especially Doom because let's face it, he comes off in the comic as a Snidely Whiplash on steroids.

Julian just plays bad guys so well. It's totally believable, and above all, he's very charismatic. That's very important for a character like Doom. He should be the bad guy you love to hate.

 

[Iron Maiden]

As point of fact, it is my understanding that His Excellancy was more insulted when Squirrel Girl defeated him....t:

But I agree with you about the writer and director. I happen to like Julian as an actor but at this point it's of no use arguing since it is a matter of preference.

At this point you could easily go the Darth Vader route. Since Johnny lost the power to absorb the powers of the others, it would not be that much of a stretch to say Doom became a scarred once again when the Surfer left the planet.

 

[Qwerty©]

And a lot of fans who grew up where Doom was already an established character don't realize that it took around 2 and a half years for Jack and Stan to even put together a proper origin for Doom.

This changes nothing. That origin has existed for years afterward, and was ready to be used at Tim Story's disposal. It was his decision to ignore it and change the character.

Latveria was never mentioned until FF Annual #2 and for all we knew, Victor was an American up until then.

But do people remember him for that? No.

No doubt, they blew it for the first movie but things now stand he's only a revolution away from being Doom from the comics.

Even so, why couldn't they do it correctly the first time? Or the second time? Why should it take three times to get it right, when you have 45 years of comics at your disposal? There is no excuse.

The movies are concentrating on the team members anyway and the character of Victor Von Doom just is not going to get the kind of screen time needed until they open up the film to a longer running time.

Then I attribute that to a lack of creativity and ability to tell a story.

 

[Mercurius]

This changes nothing. That origin has existed for years afterward, and was ready to be used at Tim Story's disposal. It was his decision to ignore it and change the character. But do people remember him for that? No. Even so, why couldn't they do it correctly the first time? Or the second time? Why should it take three times to get it right, when you have 45 years of comics at your disposal? There is no excuse. Then I attribute that to a lack of creativity and ability to tell a story.

I think that way, too.

 

[Iron Maiden]

It was already judged by Marvel Entertainment's own rep on the production, Avi Arad, that they didn't think the origin was do-able, as said in the DVD commentary. Marvel is just as responsible for signing off on it, not that it excuses it. Avi was a lead "decider"....t: and that was that.

 

[Caliber]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think McMahaon has done a great job considering what he had to work with.

Like I said, playing a bad guy is the hardest thing in the world, especially Doom because let's face it, he comes off in the comic as a Snidely Whiplash on steroids.

Julian just plays bad guys so well. It's totally believable, and above all, he's very charismatic. That's very important for a character like Doom. He should be the bad guy you love to hate.

He has done good with the version of Doom they've had though I doubt now we will ever see a great Doom or a better F4 film.

 

[Iron Maiden]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think McMahaon has done a great job considering what he had to work with.

Like I said, playing a bad guy is the hardest thing in the world, especially Doom because let's face it, he comes off in the comic as a Snidely Whiplash on steroids.

Julian just plays bad guys so well. It's totally believable, and above all, he's very charismatic. That's very important for a character like Doom. He should be the bad guy you love to hate.

I know what you mean and that is why I thought Julian was a good choice to start out with since he suits the description of someone with the "face of a demigod and the cunning of a demon". When he chooses to be, Doom can be a very persuasive, charismatic leader and he has an innate ability for seduction. Case in point.... look at his relationship with Namor over the years, starting with their team up in issue #6 where he very cleverly manipulates him into coming over to his side despite Namor's infatuation with Susan. He started out conning half the aristocracy in Latveria before he left for the United States with a bounty on his head. You can't do that and be a frothing at the mouth nutjob.

Much later, in Byrne's story "This Land is Mine", even Sue reluctantly admits to herself that he is a more natural leader than Reed. This has always been the one of the hallmarks of his character IMO. That he has such great potential that is squandered by petty jealousies and a dash of paranoia ...which is somewhat justified considering how his tribe was persecuted and how he almost was killed a couple of times himself before he could even shave.

 

[NUFFSAID2004]

This changes nothing. That origin has existed for years afterward, and was ready to be used at Tim Story's disposal. It was his decision to ignore it and change the character. But do people remember him for that? No. Even so, why couldn't they do it correctly the first time? Or the second time? Why should it take three times to get it right, when you have 45 years of comics at your disposal? There is no excuse. Then I attribute that to a lack of creativity and ability to tell a story.

"Excellent job ans bravo" on answering back on that post. I had planned on answered back exacly how you did, but you beat me to the quick and put it perfectly! You should be the one with the Doctor Doom logo under your name.

 

[Iron Maiden]

Hey, Nuffsaid, why don't you write a letter to Marvel and ask them why they've had alternate versions/origins for Doom over the years? That's all the movie represents .... an alternate or Elseworlds version of the FF and it's universe.

 

[brobdingnag]

Okay, my two cents...I feel that McMahon is still the right choice for Doom.

I could not disagree more. Doom comes off as a mincing fop rather than the narcissistic megalomaniac he should be.

 

[brobdingnag]

double post

 

[SymbioteDoomGoblin]

I have a Question. When the Silver Surfer attacks Doctor Doom, it shows his steel armer fading away. Did that mean he doesnt have unlimited amount of lightning power anymore? Does he ever run out of lightning energy?

Thanks.

 

[highguard]

I have a Question. When the Silver Surfer attacks Doctor Doom, it shows his steel armer fading away. Did that mean he doesnt have unlimited amount of lightning power anymore? Does he ever run out of lightning energy?

Thanks.

The answer to your question is blowing in the wind sir. You can assume any answer you wish.

 

[SymbioteDoomGoblin]

The answer to your question is blowing in the wind sir. You can assume any answer you wish.

But does anybody know??

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

I know what you mean and that is why I thought Julian was a good choice to start out with since he suits the description of someone with the "face of a demigod and the cunning of a demon". When he chooses to be, Doom can be a very persuasive, charismatic leader and he has an innate ability for seduction. Case in point.... look at his relationship with Namor over the years, starting with their team up in issue #6 where he very cleverly manipulates him into coming over to his side despite Namor's infatuation with Susan. He started out conning half the aristocracy in Latveria before he left for the United States with a bounty on his head. You can't do that and be a frothing at the mouth nutjob.

Much later, in Byrne's story "This Land is Mine", even Sue reluctantly admits to herself that he is a more natural leader than Reed. This has always been the one of the hallmarks of his character IMO. That he has such great potential that is squandered by petty jealousies and a dash of paranoia ...which is somewhat justified considering how his tribe was persecuted and how he almost was killed a couple of times himself before he could even shave.

Beautifully stated.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Hey, Nuffsaid, why don't you write a letter to Marvel and ask them why they've had alternate versions/origins for Doom over the years? That's all the movie represents .... an alternate or Elseworlds version of the FF and it's universe.

Now when you say "alternate" and "Elseworlds" are you meaning to say "lazy" "crappy" "uninspired" or "too arrogant to see anything Comic-based as being superior to whatever stupidity Hollywood comes up with"? Because if that's your intent, then I'm with you 100%!

 

[Iron Maiden]

Well, the for the first movie, I agree... I've said before it was quite infuriating to hear Avi and *I think* Mark Frost discussing how difficult it would be to bring Doom's origin to the screen. Yet I don't see how they thought copying Norman Osborn was an improvement. I think they reluctantly came around to Tim Story and Don Payne's idea that they should not even mention those elements at all in the second movie.

 

[Kabuki_Jo]

And are we surprised? No. It's all about "face time" for actors today. Look at the Spider-Man films. Tobey rips the mask off at ANY OPPORTUNITY. He rips it off in public view, he rips it off in the middle of a fight, he rips it off because his neck is sweaty. Even Venom was seen more frequently with a Topher Grace-head than an actual VENOM FACE. And "New Goblin" worse his little paintball mask for approximately 10 seconds of screen time.

That's exactly what annoyed me about the Spiderman movies.

 

[Qwerty©]

Well, the for the first movie, I agree... I've said before it was quite infuriating to hear Avi and *I think* Mark Frost discussing how difficult it would be to bring Doom's origin to the screen. Yet I don't see how they thought copying Norman Osborn was an improvement. I think they reluctantly came around to Tim Story and Don Payne's idea that they should not even mention those elements at all in the second movie.

The only reason they added comic elements in the second movie was to get the fanboys off their backs. They shoved the armour and Latveria in our faces to try and make us happy. That may work for some... but not for me.

 

[jrd550]

the only real let down in the movie for me was Doom - he's too formulaic and not scary at all