Dreamworks/Paramount's Ghost In The Shell - Part 1

[Pink Ranger]

Also, I bet that if there were a lot of white actors living in Japan who can speak fluent Japanese, they would be in fairly high demand for all sorts of work, especially for adaptations of things like Cowboy Bebop or Fullmetal Alchemist.

 

[OutOfBoose]

You show an audience from Uganda a movie with Al Jolson tapdancing in blackface, and likely they won't have a problem with it. That's not an argument.

That wasn't an argument. That was just an observation. Asian-americans/Japanese-americans have nothing to do with conception and creation of Ghost in the Shell. Country-origin doesn't think creators of the movie do disservice to their property. In fact, I see the problem isn't white-washing, it's just some fans started this ****storm because they imagined Motoko Kusanagi as an Asian and see her ONLY like that. I disagree, thanks to artists in Japan, who did their best to make her and many other anime/manga characters look NOT Asian. Majority of anime characters have absolutely abstract ethnicity.

 

[SuperT]

That wasn't an argument. That was just an observation. Asian-americans/Japanese-americans have nothing to do with conception and creation of Ghost in the Shell. Country-origin doesn't think creators of the movie do disservice to their property. In fact, I see the problem isn't white-washing, it's just some fans started this ****storm because they imagined Motoko Kusanagi as an Asian. I personally never saw her like that, thanks to artists in Japan, who did their best to make her and many other anime/manga characters look NOT Asian. Majority of anime characters have absolutely abstract ethnicity.

Again, not true in the slightest.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Again, not true in the slightest.

Believe whatever you want to believe.

 

[Octoberist]

Yeah, but so few of them are given a real opportunity, which is one of the big problems.

And when a foreign actor breaks into America, he gets painted into a corner.

A good example is this is Lee Byung-hun, who is semi-famous in America for playing Storm Shadow' in the now-sorta-defunct GI Joe movies. Maybe one of his better roles in the States.

Back in Korea, the dude was awesome movies. "The Good, the Bad, and the Weird" and "I Saw the Devil". Plus Bittersweet Life. He's almost like the Brad Pitt of Korea.

But in America, who does he play? The assassin who doesn't talk. He's played that role twice, in Red 2 and in Terminator Geneysis, robot style. It's almost comical because his English is good.

Hopefuly he'll be able to make his character his own in the 'Mag Seven' remake.

 

[Octoberist]

BTW, that was why Donnie Yen, a dude who was raised as a kid in Boston, didn't want to be in American movies. He was in Shanghai Knights, but he said that he got offered stupid lame roles. He went back to China, where he was a star, and grew even bigger as an actor.

Now he's back doing American movies, like Rogue One, but I think it's on his own terms.

 

[sweetre15]

Plus....Lets not Act like the characters supposedly looking "white" is the only time they whitewashing lead roles.....

I don't know anyone that didn't know the Nations/Tribes/Kingdoms of Avatar: The Last Airbender were East Asian and Native American yet they were cast where Instead of the Air tribe being Chinese and/or Tibetans, they're white with Asians as extras, Water tribe goes from Inuit to White with Inuits in the background, Earth Kingdom Goes from Chinese and Japanese (The Kyoshi Warriors presumably being Japanese) to being mostly a mix of Filipino, Korean, and African...which wasn't that much of a problem but then the Fire Nation goes from Japenese/Chinese to Middle Eastern.

Which undercut one of the main messages of the story being that they shouldn't be fighting when they are of the same race.

If even then characters get whitewashed that "they look white" excuse is BS

Or let's not forget about how in Pan, they turned Tiger Lily and the Indians white for no good reason.

Hell they even whitewashed the MIT Blackjack in 21 despite them being real people.

So that excuse isn't acceptable because 9 times out of 10, it wasn't something that even crossed their mind.

 

[Monochron]

Agreed. But I don't really think it matters. My wife is Asian but has western first and last names. One of the Software Engineers where I work is Black. His first and last name are definitely Hispanic. I have another Asian friend who also has Hispanic first and last names. I have a white friend who has an Arabic name. I could go on, but again, I don't think it really matters.

Because hispanics can be black, white, and asian. It's an ethnicity, not a race.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I'll take white-washing talk seriously when Japanese artists themselves stop white-washing countless anime and manga characters in their works.

 

[Black Narcissus]

And when a foreign actor breaks into America, he gets painted into a corner.

A good example is this is Lee Byung-hun, who is semi-famous in America for playing Storm Shadow' in the now-sorta-defunct GI Joe movies. Maybe one of his better roles in the States.

Back in Korea, the dude was awesome movies. "The Good, the Bad, and the Weird" and "I Saw the Devil". Plus Bittersweet Life. He's almost like the Brad Pitt of Korea.

But in America, who does he play? The assassin who doesn't talk. He's played that role twice, in Red 2 and in Terminator Geneysis, robot style. It's almost comical because his English is good.

Hopefuly he'll be able to make his character his own in the 'Mag Seven' remake.

He is one of my favorite foreign actors. Top notch actor.

 

[Loki882]

I'll take white-washing talk seriously when Japanese artists themselves stop white-washing countless anime and manga characters in their works.

And I'll take your argument seriously, when it doesn't completely miss the point and rely on strawman points.

 

[Roose Bolton]

​

Also, I bet that if there were a lot of white actors living in Japan who can speak fluent Japanese, they would be in fairly high demand for all sorts of work, especially for adaptations of things like Cowboy Bebop or Fullmetal Alchemist.

I'm still not sure how the all-Japanese casting of that film is gonna work, unless they completely sidestep the Ishvalans.

 

[Lencho01]

And when a foreign actor breaks into America, he gets painted into a corner.

A good example is this is Lee Byung-hun, who is semi-famous in America for playing Storm Shadow' in the now-sorta-defunct GI Joe movies. Maybe one of his better roles in the States.

Back in Korea, the dude was awesome movies. "The Good, the Bad, and the Weird" and "I Saw the Devil". Plus Bittersweet Life. He's almost like the Brad Pitt of Korea.

But in America, who does he play? The assassin who doesn't talk. He's played that role twice, in Red 2 and in Terminator Geneysis, robot style. It's almost comical because his English is good.

Hopefuly he'll be able to make his character his own in the 'Mag Seven' remake.

BTW, that was why Donnie Yen, a dude who was raised as a kid in Boston, didn't want to be in American movies. He was in Shanghai Knights, but he said that he got offered stupid lame roles. He went back to China, where he was a star, and grew even bigger as an actor.

Now he's back doing American movies, like Rogue One, but I think it's on his own terms.

Also, Hollywood seems to have a quota when it comes to actors from different countries where English isn't their primary language. It's why you end up seeing the same handful of guys an gals being announced for these films. Familiar foreign faces.

 

[TimV]

The issue with this is that Japanese anime creators and anime readers in general do not see these characters as white - they are Japanese. Here's a great article that explains it and another from Kotaku few years back.

I'm not really buying that one. If that were true how do you explain a movie like Akira where the main characters are clearly drawn to look Japanese?

Because hispanics can be black, white, and asian. It's an ethnicity, not a race.

Yes that's true but it really wasn't the point. Also, the people I know with Hispanic names are not Hispanic. The point was someone can be not Hispanic and have a Hispanic name. Just like someone can be not Asian and still have an Asian name.

 

[StormC]

A character named Motoko Kusanagi is certainly very racially ambiguous.

I'm not really buying that one. If that were true how do you explain a movie like Akira where the main characters are clearly drawn to look Japanese?

Different art styles.

 

[Asgard]

Yes that's true but it really wasn't the point. Also, the people I know with Hispanic names are not Hispanic. The point was someone can be not Hispanic and have a Hispanic name. Just like someone can be not Asian and still have an Asian name.

So youre saying the Major is really a white woman who just happens to be named Motoko Kusanagi?

 

[dark_b]

http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/8/11889214/studio-ghibli-yoshiaki-nishimura-women-directors-misogyny

 

[TimV]

So youre saying the Major is really a white woman who just happens to be named Motoko Kusanagi?

No. I'm saying that the way she is drawn in the first movie, which the live action film is based on, she does not look Asian. She looks racially ambiguous or mixed race. Possibly half Asian. Therefore it is not that big of a deal if the actress playing her in the live action film is not Asian either, as long as they get the look of the character right. That is all. Just my opinion. I'm done here.

 

[mikeboydus]

Anyone familiar with the manga and SAC would tell you the name Motoko Kusanagi is a pseudonym. No one knows what her, if she even is a her, real name actually is. She even states in SAC she doesn't remember her actual name. One of the big themes in the 1995 film, the manga and SAC is if her memories are even real or if she's even really human.

On a sidenote, her prosthetic body built by Megatech is intended to be of ambiguous origin. It has never in any form of Ghost in the Shell appeared to be specifically Japanese. The artwork has always shown a clear difference between her shell and actual Japanese females in the manga, film, and series.

 

[Breogan]

Probably because they already get tons of movies per year (including anime/manga-inspired ones) that have either all Japanese or at least majority Japanese casts. In the west, on the other hand, that's a rarity.

Yeah. Hispanic as well.

I think the thing is that a lot of foreign based actors\directorsstill wanna "break America." Regardless of how much they flourish in their own space.

"Their own space" American cinema is their space. This isn't about foreigners wanting to see themselves represented in American film.
Asian-American and Hispanic-Americans (aka not foreigners) want to see themselves represented in American movies as much as any other American, in what you call "their own space".
That is the point.

There are so few opportunities for roles to begin with, when an opportunity does finally come up and it's squandered, people rightfully need to point it out.

 

[Teelie]

Anyone familiar with the manga and SAC would tell you the name Motoko Kusanagi is a pseudonym. No one knows what her, if she even is a her, real name actually is. She even states in SAC she doesn't remember her actual name. One of the big themes in the 1995 film, the manga and SAC is if her memories are even real or if she's even really human.

On a sidenote, her prosthetic body built by Megatech is intended to be of ambiguous origin. It has never in any form of Ghost in the Shell appeared to be specifically Japanese. The artwork has always shown a clear difference between her shell and actual Japanese females in the manga, film, and series.

Like I said earlier, the fans have their idea of who/what Kusanagi should be and anything that deviates is wrong. It just happens to be in this case related to white-wash casting. I do wonder if they went with another race entirely if the complaints would be as loud or if they would be rephrased to not jump on that bandwagon.

It reminds me of Hermione Granger in the new play. Plenty of people are upset she is now a black woman but most people aren't all that upset about it. It's unexpected but even Rowling herself has said she never specifically stated Hermione is white. Nothing is explicit that Kusanagi is Japanese, or even female. Or human. It's all assumed.

 

[sweetre15]

Generally you shouldn't have to say it because when I reading the names Cho Chang or Parvati Patil in Harry Potter I assumed they were East Asian and Middle Eastern respectively and the films of course reflected that.

In the case of Motoko being supposedly "ambiguous"...It still begs the question why is it that Hollywood makes any so called Ambiguous character white regardless of circumstances.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

I was reading an article on the people press about Juilette Binoche and I learned that she was casted in the movie. She said that she did it for her kids, same with Godzilla.

 

[Pink Ranger]

In the case of Motoko being supposedly "ambiguous"...It still begs the question why is it that Hollywood makes any so called Ambiguous character white regardless of circumstances.

Because white is the default factory setting for the human race.

 

[sweetre15]

Because white is the default factory setting for the human race.

Atleast that's what Hollywood would have us believe lol