Dreamworks/Paramount's Ghost In The Shell - Part 3

[TheVileOne]

This is the problem with the original anime movie. For all of its technical brilliance, it's scope is very limited. My point is, the Major as a character has a lot more sides to her than the stoic, military laser precise cyborg. In Stand Alone Complex, she is frequently very playful, especially with Batou and Aramaki. On numerous occasions, Batou basically asks her out, and Major constantly rebukes him. On one occasion, a teenaged boy who was sharing a hotel room with her asked her if cyborgs can have regular sex like humans, and Major, who is nearly naked basically teases him and asks if he wants to find out.

Another time, an enemy soldier corners her and rips off her arm and seriously wounds her. Major loses her cool and then goes to town on this soldier in an exo-suit with basically a rail gun.

Plus she had her girlfriends she visits with from time to time.

Even in the manga, she was a more humorous character. I just think making Major Kusanagi such a one note stoic cyborg is boring. Yes she's a cyborg, and yes she has issues of becoming a full body cyborg at a young age, but she's not incapable of emotions either.

 

[jfurioso]

While the original anime movie emphasized the stoic ultra-competent operative, I think some of the playfulness between her and Batou is retained. The manga version was much more so, of course. We saw her having relationships and teasing people with their dubious choice of gear or even having blowup comic scenes with the drone assistants (tachikomas?).

The new movie, by keeping only the stoicism, adding the trite Robocop backstory, and removing some of the competence, makes the Major a shadow of what she was in any other version.

 

[jfurioso]

I am really pretty disappointed. I did not mind SJ being cast. I found the casting debate tiresome and wanted the movie judged on its own merits.

And those were found lacking.

I did not even like how the haircut looked on SJ. YEAH I WENT THERE! LETS HAVE ANOTHER HAIR DEBATE!

 

[TheVileOne]

I think Paramount failed to really get out in front of the casting debate and really explain it. As a result, it largely dominated most of the discussion whenever Ghost in the Shell came up.

I'm not sure what the right answer to that problem would've been, but Paramount failed to manage it. The Hollywood elites like to act like they are this massively tolerant, racially progressive bunch. And then they pull moves like this. You can't claim to be progressive on one hand and then refuse to acknowledge how problematic casting like this is other than saying, "Scarlett Johansson is a big star and a singular talent who can open a sci-fi action movie."

 

[jfurioso]

I do not care about whitewashing as I am not a citizen of the first world and in my country, where we are all mostly mixed race, we rather laugh derisively at the whole ethnic guilt/obsession/resentment exhibited in such discussions. We have very different perspectives and probably cannot relate.

However, the movie disappoints as a STAND ALONE narrative (ha!).

As did the hairdo.

 

[TheVileOne]

I do not care about whitewashing as I am not a citizen of the first world and in my country, where we are all mostly mixed race, we rather laugh derisively at the whole ethnic guilt/obsession/resentment exhibited in such discussions. We have very different perspectives and probably cannot relate.

However, the movie disappoints as a STAND ALONE narrative (ha!).

As did the hairdo.

I laugh about it too, but mostly about the general hypocrisy in the industry. And yeah, a lot of it does extend from ethnic guilt obsession and resentment.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Just do Fullmetal Alchemist if you want a major anime film franchise. Unless they change the Ishvallans race, there's really not a lot there that can piss people off as far as race goes.

Alternatively, Berserk for a HBO/Starz type cable television series.

 

[2kt09]

Just do Fullmetal Alchemist if you want a major anime film franchise. Unless they change the Ishvallans race, there's really not a lot there that can piss people off as far as race goes.

Alternatively, Berserk for a HBO/Starz type cable television series.

I just remembered that this didn't even feel like a franchise flick.

 

[StormC]

Gundam has a lot of potential, since you could do a trilogy based on 79, then wait a few years and do a Zeta adaptation with the same cast. But you would need a creative team that 100% believes in the material, instead of trying to morph it into a hypermarketable product that the suits would want.

I think Paramount failed to really get out in front of the casting debate and really explain it. As a result, it largely dominated most of the discussion whenever Ghost in the Shell came up.

I'm not sure what the right answer to that problem would've been, but Paramount failed to manage it. The Hollywood elites like to act like they are this massively tolerant, racially progressive bunch. And then they pull moves like this. You can't claim to be progressive on one hand and then refuse to acknowledge how problematic casting like this is other than saying, "Scarlett Johansson is a big star and a singular talent who can open a sci-fi action movie."

Casting a lesser-known but still well-liked Japanese actress (Rinko Kikuchi, anybody?) and keeping the budget small and smart, would be a good start. This isn't Dragon Ball or Pokemon. It's a cult anime series with niche appeal. You want to build up an audience and interest in the product, not just throw 150 million at it and hope someone shows up.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I just remembered that this didn't even feel like a franchise flick.

Yeah, the original anime didn't really lend itself very well to multiple stories and when they did do a sequel it wasn't nearly as well regarded. The tv series had more meat on its bones in terms of character but it's still fairly esoteric.

It's actually a strange habbit with Hollywood and anime. Something like Ghost in the Shell and Akira aren't really the kinds of films you build a franchise on.

 

[MbJ]

Gundam has a lot of potential, since you could do a trilogy based on 79, then wait a few years and do a Zeta adaptation with the same cast. But you would need a creative team that 100% believes in the material, instead of trying to morph it into a hypermarketable product that the suits would want.

I don't think Gundam is even all that complex or hard to adapt into a marketable film. You just have to make sure the stuff about in-universe politics doesn't completely bog down the movie, ala the Star Wars prequels.

 

[zephyrinthesky]

Any speculation or educated guesses on when the release date for the Blu-Ray will come? I am curious what featurettes or deleted scenes might be on the home release.

 

[jfurioso]

I think it is already listed as an upcoming release in amazon.

 

[zephyrinthesky]

I think it is already listed as an upcoming release in amazon.

Doesn't tell you what date exactly, though. And it'd be nice to have an idea of how many extras will be on the disc before throwing money at it.

 

[jfurioso]

Some clips of the featurettes are there at the amazon page, but it should be better to wait for more detailed info. There were comments of previously screened cuts having a deeper story, so I would appreciate an extended version that made the story better.

 

[TheVileOne]

What was up with the decision for Sonny Chiba talking in Japanese in subtitles? Also doesn't Beat Takeshi at least speak decent English? Or couldn't they have just dubbed him over with a more fluent soundalike?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Some clips of the featurettes are there at the amazon page, but it should be better to wait for more detailed info. There were comments of previously screened cuts having a deeper story, so I would appreciate an extended version that made the story better.

Hoping for an extended/R rated version on BD myself also. It would make sense as the movie felt neutered in a few parts.

 

[Roose Bolton]

What was up with the decision for Sonny Chiba talking in Japanese in subtitles? Also doesn't Beat Takeshi at least speak decent English? Or couldn't they have just dubbed him over with a more fluent soundalike?

Beat Takeshi suggested that because the setting was so advanced and multicultural , that most races would be fluent in most languages. The director and producers apparently thought it was a cool idea.

 

[TheVileOne]

Beat Takeshi suggested that because the setting was so advanced and multicultural , that most races would be fluent in most languages. The director and producers apparently thought it was a cool idea.

Then that means that Aramaki would've been fluent in English as well...

 

[Roose Bolton]

Then that means that Aramaki would've been fluent in English as well...

I suppose he was, as he was reacting to everything the team said to him in English like he understood it perfectly.

Maybe the point of it was to deliberately seem strange, seeing people holding a conversation whilst speaking in two completely different languages.

 

[jfurioso]

I suppose he was, as he was reacting to everything the team said to him in English like he understood it perfectly.

Maybe the point of it was to deliberately seem strange, seeing people holding a conversation whilst speaking in two completely different languages.

I do that all the time. Most everyone here is bilingual, and when discussing specialized stuff some things we say in English, while others in Spanish.

 

[Roose Bolton]

That Beat Takeshi fella knew what he was doing when he made that creative choice.

 

[TheVileOne]

That Beat Takeshi fella knew what he was doing when he made that creative choice.

Was it all that creative, and did it really benefit the movie overall?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Was it all that creative, and did it really benefit the movie overall?

It certainly made the film all that easier to dub into Japanese.

 

[StormC]

I don't think Gundam is even all that complex or hard to adapt into a marketable film. You just have to make sure the stuff about in-universe politics doesn't completely bog down the movie, ala the Star Wars prequels.

The big thing for me is all of Tomino's isms in characterization. His characters often act odd, erratic, or even downright unlikeable. It could definitely be offputting to general audiences if not handled carefully. (To bring it back around, there's an argument to be made that GITS failed because it was hard to advertise a movie with an emotionless protagonist.)