DTL Season 6-Week 1 (Set 2)

[DTL Commish]

The rules:
This is one of two threads containing matches.
These threads will be in use for 7 days. Days 1-4 (Oct 12-15) are strictly setup time for owners to post their battles, plead their cases, tell us their team’s strategies, breakdown the match ups, and do whatever else they can/want to do to try and convince you that their team would pull out a victory. Please, let the owners do this on their own with no help. Debating cannot begin until both owners post battles.

On Day 5 (Oct 16) I will post and tell everyone that voting may begin. Any votes cast before I open voting will not count. Look over the matchups and read the strategies, and take into consideration how in-character each character is. Afterwards, use your best judgment to decide who you think has the best chance to win the match. (Note: The length of a writeup is at the discretion of the owner. Do not punish owners just for having a shorter writeup.)

To vote, post the team names you think will prevail in each match. Remember to vote for all matches or your vote will not count! The teams with the highest vote total at the end of the 7th day (Oct 18) will get a W while the other will get an L. (Equal votes will result in a tie.)

The battleground for this week is: The Bottle City of Kandor

The Polka Dot Fuchsia Lantern Corps
Thor (MU) - super-strength/speed/durability, weather control, magic hammer capable of energy manipulation, teleportation, and matter manipulation
Captain Atom (Wildstorm) (DU) - super-strength/speed/durability, energy, radiation, and matter manipulation, technopathy, teleportation
Aquaman (DM) - super-strength/speed/durability, amphibious, marine telepathy, limited general telepathy, magic water hand capable of canceling magic and healing
Black Knight (MR) - magic sword capable of energy manipulation, Sword of Light/Shield of Night combo that can absorb and redirect energy, photonic sword capable of neural disruption and strength increase, magic armor, magic horse capable of mach-speed flight and protection from any environment
Antibody (MR) - psychoplasmic antibodies capable of flight and phasing, able to wear an antibody to increase durability and fly, able to absorb antibodies to increase strength

VS.

The Immortals
WWH Hulk (MU) - Super strength, Invulnerability, Healing factor, Dynamic power with the augmentation of all physical characteristics, immunity to telepaths, Fighting skills, reactive evolution
Sorceror Supreme Stark (MU) - Tech genius and Sorceror Supreme who combines high level magic with a suit of advanced armor.
Brainiac 417 (DM) - Spirit-form tech genius/technopath.
"Death"Wolverine (MR) - Mutant with healing factor, heightened senses, unbreakable bones/claws, a sword that fires large energy blasts and armor that provides cloaking and low level teleportation.
Midnighter (DR) - Fighter who has heightened senses, enhanced speed, durability, strength, skeleton and a healing factor. Also has a computer-enhanced brain that can instantly predict every possible move an opponent can make and plot the most effective counter move.

_______________________________

Yancy Street Gang
Green Lantern (DU) Power Ring limited only by imagination and will.
Flash (DU) Superspeed.
Invisible Woman (MM) Invisibility. Force Fields.
Brainiac-5 (DR) Level 12 intellect. Legion Flight Ring. Force Field Belt. Gadgets.
Valkyrie (MR) Super Strength. Ebony Blade. Magical Spear. Thick Skin. Godly Fighting Skills. Winged Steed. Death Precognition.

VS.

The Authorititans
Wonder Woman (Mental Powers) (DU) - Superstrength, superspeed, martial arts capability, and agility derived from extreme mental focus and Amazonian training, Flight, Superbreath, Telepathy, Microscopic vision
Flash/Wally West (DU) - Superspeed
Engineer (Post Worldstorm) (DM) - Technopath, nanotechnology, malleable form
Midnighter (Post Worldstorm) (DU) - Battle precog, martial arts genius, enhanced speed, agility, and strength
Quicksilver (MR) - Superspeed

 

[Franklin Richards]

Hal : Let's go over it again.
Barry : Right.
Brainiac-5 : I'll setup shop here in the Science Plaza at the Physics Lab. I've already linked wirelessly to the mainframe.
Sue : From there you will flood the city's ionosphere with Alpha Waves.
Brainiac-5 : Correct. If I saturate the D Region with white noise it will neutralize any sort of telepathy in the city. I've setup a Kryptonian / Colurian anti-virus. They are equipped with chroniton particles and are very invasive. Any action by their technopath should be balked. I'm also setting up this Matter / Energy transporter.
Hal : Sue will stay with you to stand guard. From here you should be able to reek havoc with any defenses they themselves have setup.
Sue : I should be able to clandestinely keep Brainiac safe. From his opponent and my own.
Barry : Agreed. Brainiac, keep trying to patch into your ancestors tech as well as the Kryptonian software.
Brainiac-5 : Oh can I?
Valkyrie : Enow! This is not the time for sarcasm. Let us away.
Hal : Right. Val, you and I will be the vanguard. We'll go out to the plaza and see if we can confront the enemy. I'll keep us invisible and my ring scanning so that we receive sit-reps every 30 seconds. I'll also link Brainy's mainframe to the ring.
Valkyrie : This... Midnighter. He is my target.
Sue : He is. But don't put blinders on. Your assignment is to help Hal. If that means changing targets then follow suit.
Valkyrie : Aye. Aragorn and I are at the Lantern's disposal. But what of the Flash.
Hal : He's got his own job.
Barry : Wally. I can't believe it.
Hal : Don't sweat it, Barry. You don't have to hurt him. Just neutralize him. Think of it as one of our old training missions.
Barry : I got it. I just don't like it. If I know Wally, this will come to blows.
Brainiac-5 : And if it does, do not hold back.
Hal : Just keep that level 12 brain of yours focused on your job. Barry knows his.
Sue : Alright, people. It's Clobberin' Time.



:gl: :gl: :gl:

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Prep Time

The Hulk thirsting for revenge against having been exiled now finds himself taken away from his ship, his subjects into a place he has never seen before. He suddenly sees Stark, another one of those who dared try to destroy him and caused the destruction of his great love and future child. He goes to SMASH Stark with whatever new armor this was.

“HOLD” says a great voice “You have been brought together to do battle against the following 5 individuals:

Thor (MU) – super-strength/speed/durability, weather control, magic hammer capable of energy manipulation, teleportation, and matter manipulation

Captain Atom (Wildstorm) (DU) – super-strength/speed/durability, energy, radiation, and matter manipulation, technopathy, teleportation

Aquaman (DM) – super-strength/speed/durability, amphibious, marine telepathy, limited general telepathy, magic water hand capable of canceling magic and healing

Black Knight (MR) – magic sword capable of energy manipulation, Sword of Light/Shield of Night combo that can absorb and redirect energy, photonic sword capable of neural disruption and strength increase, magic armor, magic horse capable of mach-speed flight and protection from any environment

Antibody (MR) - psychoplasmic antibodies capable of flight and phasing, able to wear an antibody to increase durability and fly, able to absorb antibodies to increase strength

“You will be a team and fight these individuals.”

The Hulk doesn’t care and still attempts to smash Stark but he suddenly realizes he cannot and then this Stark looks at him in a strange manner almost not recognizing. He says “maybe it is time we get to know one another”.

“I am Tony Stark, Sorceror Supreme of this dimension”. The Hulk is a bit at a loss for words. In his absence Strange is gone and …..Stark replaced him. It makes little sense even to the part of his intellect which is Banner.

A spirit form then approaches stating “I am Braniac 417 of the Legion of Heroes of the 843rd century.”

Midnighter and Death who remember both also introduce themselves. The Hulk would relish fighting this Logan once again. However, he also notices that the others barely seemed to care about the introductions as it was obvious to him that they all knew each other from before. Knowing he needed to speak up, he declared.
“I am known as the Green Scar, King of Sakaar, but I was known as the Hulk when I was on Earth before YOU (pointing to Stark) exiled me and destroyed my family”

Brainiac understanding instantly the misconception speaks up “Hulk, this man is not the Tony Stark you knew, he is a man from another universe who had a very different history from the one you know”. The Hulk listens and as he does, his ability to reason holds him back as he notices the cloak of levitation and the eye of agometto, plus the demeanor does not seem the same. He takes the words of this green spirit for truth.

“I understand and I also understand we are to do battle; I know Thor and the Black Knight but I have never heard of the others.”

Brainiac speaks up saying he had very extensive files on both Acquaman and Captain Atom and starts to recite the information as it appeared on the page. He also gives extensive information on the Kandor. The others listen. They group together and the Hulk with his experience as King shows himself to be somewhat a general and collectively they come up with a plan.

After the initial discussion, Braniac goes to work building the apparatus he needs; a device which will bleed the moisture from any individual.

Stark decides what spells he will use. The Hulk meditates as he was taught, channeling his great rage. The others await the great battle….


The Battle

Stark reaches inside himself and does what only a sorcerer supreme can and he stops time the same way Strange did. once he accomplished the feat freezing everyone (see image below for the same feat performed by Strange), he downloaded the spells of banishment into the Crossways and a spell of protection (The Seven Rings of Raggadorr), as well as a couple offensive weapons. He then lets time proceed

Strange stopping time

The Hulk immediately goes to clash battle Thor, someone who he knows very well. Thor as well seeks him and declares “again we meet, you green beast”. The Hulk does not waste his breadth as he takes it to Thor strait away. This battle is one that could last ages but only so long as this world lasts. Already after a few minutes, cracks are appearing in the bottle. This battle continues with neither getting the upper hand even though Thor realizes this Hulk is more of a challenge then any previous battle he had with him…

Atom attempts to fight Stark and at his smallest size he does not see how any shield could stop him. Little did he know that the Seven blue energy rings that surrounded Stark were the seven rings of Raggadorr and they deflect attacks whatever they maybe. Atom is stunned and Stark is immediately able to home in on Atom instantly banishing him into the Crossways (just as Strange did with the Hulk). Once done he sets about creating a great spell. This takes him a bit of time…

Braniac immediately locates Aquaman who he attacks using his dehydration machine. Aquaman notices that he starts to lose his strength as the moisture escapes his body. He attampts to attack Brainiac but cannot even touch him through the force field. He attempts a retreat to find a body of water but Brainiac is relentless until aquaman finally faints.

In the meantime both Death and Midnighter are fighting their counterparts but they are having great difficulty. Each heal from their wounds very quickly but the antibodies keep them busy. The Black Knight however finds it too difficult against a flying and teleporting Wolverine who happens to be cloaked. He cannot stand up to him. However he puts up a battle and Wolverine takes more then a few minutes to heal from his wounds. But he eventually does and he joins Midnighter so that they can both double team antibody. They are then joined by Brainiac who helps them take down Antibody.

Stark in the meantime completes his spell [not relevant as as spell needed a part of his hammer]:

Thor finds himself without his hammer which tips the battle in favor of the Hulk, stronger and more powerful then he ever has been before. Eventually Thor gets defeated and the Immortals win the day.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Hal : Let's go over it again.
Barry : Right.
Brainiac-5 : I'll setup shop here in the Science Plaza at the Physics Lab. I've already linked wirelessly to the mainframe.
Sue : From there you will flood the city's ionosphere with Alpha Waves.
Brainiac-5 : Correct. If I saturate the D Region with white noise it will neutralize any sort of telepathy in the city. I've setup a Kryptonian / Colurian anti-virus. They are equipped with chroniton particles and are very invasive. Any action by their technopath should be balked. I'm also setting up this Matter / Energy transporter.
Hal : Sue will stay with you to stand guard. From here you should be able to reek havoc with any defenses they themselves have setup.
Sue : I should be able to clandestinely keep Brainiac safe. From his opponent and my own.
Barry : Agreed. Brainiac, keep trying to patch into your ancestors tech as well as the Kryptonian software.
Brainiac-5 : Oh can I?
Valkyrie : Enow! This is not the time for sarcasm. Let us away.
Hal : Right. Val, you and I will be the vanguard. We'll go out to the plaza and see if we can confront the enemy. I'll keep us invisible and my ring scanning so that we receive sit-reps every 30 seconds. I'll also link Brainy's mainframe to the ring.
Valkyrie : This... Midnighter. He is my target.
Sue : He is. But don't put blinders on. Your assignment is to help Hal. If that means changing targets then follow suit.
Valkyrie : Aye. Aragorn and I are at the Lantern's disposal. But what of the Flash.
Hal : He's got his own job.
Barry : Wally. I can't believe it.
Hal : Don't sweat it, Barry. You don't have to hurt him. Just neutralize him. Think of it as one of our old training missions.
Barry : I got it. I just don't like it. If I know Wally, this will come to blows.
Brainiac-5 : And if it does, do not hold back.
Hal : Just keep that level 12 brain of yours focused on your job. Barry knows his.
Sue : Alright, people. It's Clobberin' Time.

Lights up.

Everyone freezes. Everyone but Wally. I see him in the center of the city. He's heading towards the fountain in the center of the plaza. So am I. We meet in the middle.

[BLACKOUT]"You ok?"[/BLACKOUT]

He sounds... older.

"Yes. You?"

Short. Succinct. Wally always liked it when I kept it short. He always thought I was 'a bit of a talker'.

[BLACKOUT]"Better since seeing you."[/BLACKOUT]

"Likewise."

He's the Flash now. It suits him.

"Race?"

[BLACKOUT]"Street style."[/BLACKOUT]

"Ok. One million laps."

[BLACKOUT]"Can you still count that high?"[/BLACKOUT]

Funny.

I get the jump. I always do. Two hundred laps in Wally tries to trip me. We slow down to the speed of sound and he damn near knocks me over. I fall behind but I zip in and out of the sound barrier. He's distracted by the booms and I pull back just behind. He's faster than he was. He turns on the juice and I'm taxed to catch up with him. Four hundered thousand rotations fly by. I pick up a rock along the way and fling it to where he's going to be in fifty seven thousand rotations. It hits him in the hamstring. He's slowing down. Eight hundred thousand rotations and he's dropping back. On purpose? He's going to attack me. He's... stealing my speed?

"No!"

Without thinking I vibrate my hand into the side of his throat. A chop that disrupts his breathing. He crumbles and I'm all over him. Ten blows to his vital nerves and he's down. I arrive back at our base. Brainiac is engrossed in some control panel.

"You just left."

"I know. Where are they?"

"Scanners indicate that Wonder Woman and Midnighter are approaching the central plaza on foot. Lantern and Valkyrie are flying in from the south. I can't pinpoint where the Engineer and Quicksilver are."

THUMP!!!

The mutant speedster lay stunned at my feet.

"I wouldn't suggest running at top speed when there are invisible force fields everywhere."

The Invisible Woman. She's here. And she's smart.

"I'll remember that."

Brainiac flips a switch. The unconscious body of Wally and the stunned Quicksilver sparkle and waver then dissapear.

"What did you do?"

"Don't worry. I just used the matter-energy transporter to store their patterns. They are very much alive."

It might also be a detterent to their technopath. If he has any ethics he might be loathe to destroy the machinery that's keeping his allies alive.

"Fine. Now how's Hal doi..."

Brainiac-5 and Flash sparkle and waver like before and then dissapear.

She's here. The Engineer. She just used Brainiac's machine against him. I'd be gone too if she knew where I was. And since I'm not gone I can only assume she's here hiding somewhere. Just waiting for me to make a sound. Or she's using the scanners to try and find me. Can't wait any longer.

The walls slowly fade. Followed by the ceiling and then the walls and computer panels behind them. And then the Engineer appears from her hiding place. The invisible walls no longer concealing her.

<Replace Wolverine with the Engineer in the following clip>

The Invisible Woman defeats the Engineer in similar fashion.

Meanwhile...

Wonder Woman. Great. Time to go to work.

Green Lantern fires mutiple constructs at Wonder Woman. Then several more images of the amazon appears.

"Ring?"

"Multiple images produced are not the product of illusory light or matter. Massive alpha wave traffic detected."

Telepathy. Guess Brainy's mind trick isn't working. No problem.

Emerald energy streaks from the ring and helmets appear on Hal and Valkryie.

(see below)

Problem solved. How's Val doing?

"Thou art a valiant fighter. But compared to the greatest of the Valkrior thou art base and crude."

Valkyrie dismounts Aragorn and faces Midnighter on foot. The two trade blows. Midnighter always on the defense. Predicting Valkyrie's every move. He even strikes the warrior maiden a few times but her Asgardian physique barely feels the blows.

"The Norns have granted you the boon of foresight. But what good is that gift when you can not stop the outcome. For Valhalla!!!"

Valkyrie strikes the ground. Midnighter keeps balance but Valkyrie's onslaught continues. Great depressions in the ground begin to form. The warriors descend as they continue to battle until ultimately Midnighter has no where to retreat to. No refuge.

"Enow! Let the battle end!"

A stomp. A shockwave. Then the Ebony Blade's hilt finally connects with Midnighter. He crumbles to the ground.

"Aragorn to me!"

Valkyrie mounts her steed and joins the battle overhead.

"Fear not, Green Lantern! I am with you. Into the hands of Hela herself, if need be."

"I don't think it will come to that. But thanks all the same."

Hal lashes out with several beams. A few to distract her bracelets. The rest focus on her eyes. The amazon cries out.

An old John Stewart trick. But it worked.

With her sight gone Valkyrie and Hal overpower Wonder Woman.


Curtain.


:gl: :gl: :gl:

 

[Aristotle]

Prep Time

The Yancy Street Gang know they have the luxury of a conservative, tried-and-true team strategy. Neither side gains any advantage from the battlefield, but the Authorititans lineup is heavily imbalanced in favor of offense. The Authorititans will not be looking to defend, nor will they do well at it. That would strike some as a reason to go counter-offensive, but Brainiac-5 knows that the wiser plan is to allow the Authorititans to strike first, repel them hard, and then mount the counter-offensive when they're already reeling. This method puts the Authorititans at a supreme tactical disadvantage: they lose at what they expect to do at least decently well at, they take some punches, and are forced into a position that they aren't well prepared to deal with.

Brainy's plan is predictable, and he knows the Authorititans will be counting on it. But with his squad at a predisposed advantage, he can afford to drop a few of the elements of the surprise. An impregnable fortress, after all, doesn't surprise its attackers, but that doesn't make it any less of a winning strategy.

Brainy instructs Invisible Woman to erect forcefields around each of the team members, as well as one large wall at half-court, maintaining enough control of them to allow exits for the team members. The Authorititans' lone chance at penetrating the forcefield would be for Wonder Woman to locate it telepathically, transmit the location to Flash, and have Flash shatter it, followed by a quick takeout of Invisible Woman from Quicksilver. Wisely, Yancy owner Franklin Richards foresaw the possibility, and subbed in Barry Allen. With no other character presenting any kind of superspeed threat to Barry, Brainy knows that his Flash can play defense against the opposing Flash, keeping the forcefields intact and the Yancy Street Gang in the lead.

But the Authorititans have plans of their own. Having dealt with Brainiac-5 already (and recently), Midnighter knows he can't outthink the genius. However, he also can see that Brainy has the tactical advantage at the outset, and he knows what Brainy's move will be. The Yancy Street Gang has no need to take chances. They'll play a conservative, team-based strategy. However, Midnighter knows he has an ace up his sleeve that Brainy won't count on: Wonder Woman's telepathy.

Midnighter quickly discovered that Wonder Woman was from an interation of her universe that no one from the current iteration of that universe remembered, at least not with any clarity. There would be no mention of this telepathic Wonder Woman in Brainiac's histories. Their Green Lantern and Flash would not remember her. They would not expect one of the ways she could use her telepathy, and that would be the way to eliminate one of their key advantages early, as well as take out one of their most dangerous players, all within seconds.

Having established the Authorititans' opening move with Wonder Woman, Flash, and Quicksilver, Midnighter then coaches Diana and Wally on the long game. He then instructs Quicksilver and Engineer on their responsibilities in the long game. The Authorititans' strategy is in place.

 

[Aristotle]

Battle Time: Opening Moves

[Note: Some of what happens in this section isn't immediately explained. It's just to make it a better story. Trust me, it gets explained about halfway through the writeup.]

Minutes before the starting bell, both meds deploy their early-game strategy. Green Lantern and Valkyrie hover in the air above the streets of Kandor. Brainiac-5 hangs back as a last-line defense for Invisible Woman. Barry takes his position directly at the half-court position. Inches behind him, a forcefield hums to life. Farther back, multiple bubbles surround the other members of the team individually.

At the other end of the field, Engineer spawns thousands of probes to assimilate and slave any and all tech in Kandor, with swarms of them on constant patrol for Brainiac-5 and his tech.

The match begins. Barry braces himself for what he knows will be an emotionally taxing fight. Wally dashes toward him. In a horrible instant, Barry realizes that something is wrong. He can't even put his finger on what, exactly, it is, before ten more Wally Wests materialize from behind the buildings of Kandor. And then another few. And then another few. And with all the fury of the Speed Force, they converge on Barry Allen.

They batter him hard. Behind him, he hears one of them smash the forcefield and run through. He can't focus on it, though, because he's being smacked around by dozens of Wallys. Something about this isn't what we thought it was, Barry grimaces to himself.

Quicksilver closely follows the route of the real Wally West, like a point guard following a screen to the basket. In the space between seconds, Wally shatters the forcefield surrounding Invisible Woman. Pushing his speed as hard as he can, Quicksilver follows up, delivering several blows at superspeed in strategically targeted pressure points. With a final knockout punch, Sue Storm loses consciousness before even realizing what's happening to her, and her forcefields drop with them.

Wonder Woman telepathically transmits to the rest of the squad, “Time to move.” Focusing her mental energies, she hurtles toward Green Lantern, her selected target. Wally's already most of the way back to the hapless Barry Allen, his target. Quicksilver ducks into a nearby building until his cue to strike at Brainiac-5. Engineer springs into action, assimilating herself into the substance of the technologically advanced city, completely under her control thanks to her probes, to increase her speed as she moves against Valkyrie's position. And Midnighter just jogs toward the Yancy Street Gang's end of the city. He knows his combat precog is going to be a bit secondary in this fight, but Engineer uncovered some interesting information from the city's computer banks that may prove useful.

 

[Aristotle]

Battle Time: Ubers
Wonder Woman vs. Green Lantern

Hal Jordan is surprised. One second, he's got a protective forcefield around him, he's playing defense, he's waiting for the order to move against the weaker Authorititans. The next second, his forcefield has disappeared, and a squadron of Wonder Women are flying at him like missiles. They hammer his protective shielding like a battering ram on a gate. Like his friend Barry, he muses that something about this battle isn't what it was advertised to be. He attempts to gain higher positioning on the attackers, but he can't achieve it. More of them seem to materialize from everywhere. They bash him with their expert martial arts training at speeds he can't quite keep up with. They hit him hard with their super-breath.

Hal begins to feel the sour ooze of panic on his resolve. There's no help coming from the rest of the team. No backup from the Corps or the League. He's just stuck in a midair fight with an army of Wonder Women. His fear quickly manifests as rage. Striking out in blind panic and anger, Hal sends a massive shockwave of green energy pulsing from his ring. When he opens his eyes, there's only one Wonder Woman left, quickly recovering from the blast.

Telepathy, he realizes. There was only one the whole time. Somehow she must have telepathically created those simulacra, and telepathically suggested to my mind that they were causing real damage to my forcefield. But even with the element of surprise gone, Wonder Woman's telepathic image projection is no less an effective weapon. She quickly creates a dozen more and then, at superspeed, all of them dart around each other, once again confusing the Green Lantern. Unsure of where to strike, Green Lantern begins to fail.

Flash vs. Flash

Suddenly, the army of Wally Wests around Barry disappears. As Wonder Woman redirects her mental energies at Green Lantern, her telepathic constructs around Barry shiver and then dissipate. Barry barely has a chance to process what has happened before Wally blindsides him from behind, battering him with a hail of punches before he can react.

“Barry Allen is dead. You are just some sick pretender!” bellows Wally. “I am sick of people soiling his reputation! Pretending to be him! You are nothing compared to him!”

“Wally! Wally! It's me! It's--” Barry's protests are cut off by a sharp uppercut to the face. Alright, he thinks, if it's a fight you want...

But Barry is at a disadvantage. Psychologically and physically, the telepathic simulacra drained him, even if they did no actual damage to his body. Furthermore, Wally's gotten the first real blows in as well. And to top it all off, Wally is a superior hand to hand combatant, having trained extensively with Nightwing and Batman. In a stalemate between Speed-Force-wielding speedsters, superior martial arts breaks the tie.

 

[Aristotle]

Battle Time: Meds and Regs
Quicksilver and Engineer vs. Brainiac-5

With no force-field to protect him, Brainiac-5 is a sitting duck to Engineer's massive swarms of probes. He makes a valiant effort at fighting them off, but it's a losing battle. His flight ring and the rest of his tech weaponry is assimilated and eliminated, and he tumbles to the ground—where Quicksilver is waiting with a superspeed knockout punch.

Midnighter, Quicksilver, and Engineer vs. Valkyrie

Although she's now without a forcefield for defense, Valkyrie remains difficult for the Authorititans to attack, since she's airborne. Engineer quickly arrives at her position and forms her appendages into energy guns, blasting away at the Asgardian. Having set herself up in control of the weaponry systems of the entire city of Kandor, she brings as many of them to bear on Valkyrie as possible. Still, it's mostly just keeping the Asgardian off-balance, not doing real damage.

Valkyrie and her steed stay focused on dodging the hail of energy blasts and hopefully getting close enough to the Engineer to do damage. In the meantime, she slowly steers herself into position to hack the Kandorian weapon systems apart. Little by little, she makes headway, using her tactical superiority to keep the battle from moving anywhere into the targeting spheres of other gun batteries, while using her martial skill and her indestructible weapon to take down large chunks of the guns that are targeting her.

From afar, there is a loud boom. Valkyrie pays it no heed, staying focused on destroying one of the larger gun batteries.

She never sees the small airship coming. Piloted by Midnighter and rigged with explosives, it's a desperate gambit to remove the Asgardian, or at least to put her at a disadvantage. It works. Midnighter ejects at the last possible moment from the vehicle and lets it sail straight into Aragorn. Engineer detonates the explosion, and Valkyrie tumbles from her mortally wounded steed to the ground. As Aragorn collapses on a rooftop, Valkyrie struggles to her feet—only to be battered mercilessly by Quicksilver. Off-balance, injured, and exhausted, Valkyrie is no match for his superspeed onslaught and the energy weapons of the Engineer, although Midnighter is out of the fight for good after ejecting and slowly parachuting to the ground. Valkyrie falls.

Flash and Wonder Woman vs. Flash and Green Lantern

Although the Authorititan ubers have the decided early advantages against the Yancy ubers, that won't be enough to seal the deal. Hal Jordan quickly realizes that he only has to use his ring to differentiate between the telepathic images and the real Wonder Woman, and ring up an according targeting apparatus. For a few minutes, this works, until Wonder Woman gets inside his head and messes with his ability to even read the targeting apparatus correctly. He abandons this and just orders the ring to attack Diana, a decidedly less effective tactic, but one that buys him some time.

Meanwhile, Barry is definitely not winning, but he isn't definitively losing either. Wally has the upper hand, but it isn't going to be enough. That's just when he gets the telepathic cue from Wonder Woman; time to close this fight down.

Keeping Hal busy for a few seconds with telepathic image projections, Wonder Woman darts away to the predetermined point on the ground, at the main commercial square of Kandor, right out in the open. Hal, seeing an advantage he can press, sails through her image projections and bears down on her, blasting her repeatedly with energy beams. She deflects them easily with her bracelets, and braces for the impact of Hal slamming into her.

But it's a trap. At the last second, Wonder Woman vibrates into another dimension, leaving only Wally West, with Barry close behind. With a single punch, Wally shatters Hal's construct armor. Wonder Woman rematerializes immediately and clobbers Barry with a punch he didn't expect. With both of the Yancy ubers off-balance, Wonder Woman and Wally switch dance partners again and deal a hail of unrelenting blows to pressure points, and Hal and Barry are down and out.

The Authorititans 4, Yancy Street Gang 0.
Flash and Wonder Woman each walk away with a goal apiece, and Quicksilver nets a whopping three. Engineer gets an assist for Brainiac-5, Midnighter gets an assist for Valkyrie, Flash gets an assist for Invisible Woman and Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman gets an assist for Flash.

 

[Aristotle]

Debate
Why I wrote Frank's team the way I did:
Because if Wonder Woman doesn't use her telepathy the way she does, it's a winning strategy. There isn't a chance of penetrating that forcefield, and Frank can attack with impunity, always knowing he has an impregnable fortress to regroup in. And essentially, the strategy I write for Frank's team is the same one he ended up picking as well. This is excellent, because it allows me not only to show why my strategy works, but also why his fails, all in one basic line of argumentation. In fact, the strategy I write for his team is so similar to what a broad-strokes outline of his strategy would look like that I feel the need to assure you all that I came up with that section of the writeup before he posted his prep time.
Why Frank's counter-tech won't work:
Engineer just straight-up has an advantage with tech. There's a reason Brainy is a reg and Engineer is a med, and a big part of that reason is that Engineer's technopathy is some of the most dominant technopathy in the game. The entire field is swarmed with remote probes tasked to assimilate the entire city, so within picoseconds, the entire city belongs to Engineer and Brainy is helpless, powerless, and defenseless. The anti-virus he introduces doesn't work because Engineer isn't a virus, she's a user. She simply takes control of the anti-virus as well. This is actually a pretty key point in the rest of the battle.
Interestingly, if I wanted to, I could easily argue that Engineer's control of the city extends to Green Lantern's ring, because Hal opened a channel with the computer mainframe. If that happens, and there's certainly an argument to be made that it does, this whole thing ends even quicker, and entirely in favor of my side.
Why Frank's counter-telepathy doesn't work:
It's a cool-sounding countermeasure to flood the city with white noise to prevent telepathy, but there's no real indication that white noise cancels telepathy, or even dampens it. In some real-world experiments, white noise is believed to amplify telepathy (although these experiments are widely acknowledged as ********, because telepathy isn't real.) However, what's more important is that the white noise is tech-based, and we've already seen that Brainy loses control of his tech almost as soon as combat begins. Furthermore, as if all that weren't enough, Wonder Woman easily has the mental strength to quiet her mind from white noise; she has the mental strength to give herself Amazonian superpowers, after all.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Prep

The Black Knight, Thor, Captain Atom, Antibody, and Aquaman appear in Kandor. Aquaman and Captain Atom recognize each other, as do the Black Knight and Thor. Antibody introduces himself as Randy O&#8217;Brien, a doctor. Aquaman also recognizes Kandor from Superman's descriptions of it and the glass dome surrounding the city. The team learns a bit about each other and wonders where they are and how they got there until the information about the DTL is downloaded directly into their minds.

"A tournament where we have no choice but to fight?" Randy wonders. "This is barbaric!"

"Aye, 'tis one thing to fight for honor and glory on the field of battle," Thor comments, "but simply for the pleasure of some unknown overlord? 'Tis not unlike the Beyonder's secret wars."

"Barbaric, dishonorable, or whatever else it may be, it's the situation we're stuck with," Captain Atom says decisively, his military training showing through. &#8220;We&#8217;d better get down to business. I&#8217;ve been through obstacle after obstacle trying to get home lately. None of them have stopped me and I&#8217;ll be damned if I&#8217;ll let this one.&#8221;

&#8220;Well said, Nathaniel,&#8221; Aquaman replies, &#8220;but what business are we supposed to get down to, exactly? We don&#8217;t even know who we&#8217;re fighti--&#8221;

Aquaman&#8217;s voice trails off as new information enters his mind and the minds of his teammates:

WWH Hulk (MU) - Super strength, Invulnerability, Healing factor, Dynamic power with the augmentation of all physical characteristics, immunity to telepaths, Fighting skills, reactive evolution

Sorceror Supreme Stark (MU) - Tech genius and Sorceror Supreme who combines high level magic with a suit of advanced armor.

Brainiac 417 (DM) - Spirit-form tech genius/technopath.

"Death"Wolverine (MR) - Mutant with healing factor, heightened senses, unbreakable bones/claws, a sword that fires large energy blasts and armor that provides cloaking and low level teleportation.

Midnighter (DR) - Fighter who has heightened senses, enhanced speed, durability, strength, skeleton and a healing factor. Also has a computer-enhanced brain that can instantly predict every possible move an opponent can make and plot the most effective counter move.

"Well, that answers that," Dane Whitman, the Black Knight, quips. "So, strategies?"

In the next few hours, the keen strategic minds of Thor, a battle-hardened god with millennia of experience, the Black Knight, a superb warrior who has led gods and men into battles throughout the ages, Captain Atom, a military man with years of experience as both a soldier and a superhero, and Aquaman, the warrior king of Atlantis, work up plans. Randy contributes what he can as well, putting the training the military on his world gave him to use. The Black Knight contributes further intel on WWH Hulk, Thor and the Black Knight are well acquainted with Wolverine, taking into account the added powers his "Death" upgrade have given him, and they can guess based on the description that Stark is essentially a combination of his usual Iron Man persona and Dr. Strange's magical might.

Battles

The battles begin and the Corps put their plan into motion. The two teams meet in the center of Kandor. Thor targets Tony Stark, disappointed that he couldn't test his might against the Hulk again but resolute that the plan the Corps have come up with is the most effective one. Captain Atom pits himself against the Hulk instead, teleporting both of them far away from the other fighters. The team's lower ranks square off in the center of the city.

Captain Atom vs. WWH Hulk
The Black Knight filled Captain Atom in on the Hulk's powers during prep time, including his recent intelligence increase and greater-than-usual strength. Based on that, the team determined the best way to handle the Hulk would be a two-pronged attack: Captain Atom absorbs the gamma energy that powers the Hulk, changes it to augment his own quantum energy, and blasts it back at the Hulk, weakening him further. Although the Hulk is smarter and a better fighter than usual, he still has no defense against power drains, which have proven effective against him in the past, and Captain Atom is no slouch in the fighting department himself. There's more gamma energy to siphon off due to the World War Hulk upgrade, but all that means is that Atom himself gets stronger when he converts it into the quantum energy that powers him (being careful, of course, to keep himself from absorbing too much and shunting himself into the future). Soon the balance of power is in Atom's favor and either the Hulk burns himself out, just as he did against the Sentry in WWH itself, or Captain Atom uses his limited molecular transmutation powers to force the Hulk back into Banner mode, just as he forced Maul to turn back into Jeremy Stone in Captain Atom: Armageddon. Captain Atom makes short work of Bruce Banner before he can change back into the Hulk.

Thor vs. Sorcerer Supreme Stark
Thor has plenty of experience fighting mages, what with Loki, the Enchantress, and Karnilla to contend with in Asgard. He and Stark clash in the sky above Kandor. Thor absorbs the magic energy Stark throws at him and, with his far greater speed and agility, manages to dodge or avoid the counterattacks Stark's magic-enhanced armor prepares for him. Still, Thor knows Stark is a formidable opponent and, with the vast arsenal of spells and powers at his disposal, he'll eventually catch Thor off-guard. So Thor endeavors to put the odds in his favor by giving Stark some distractions of his own to contend with: he summons a terrible thunderstorm, the likes of which Kandor had never even seen on its native planet Krypton. Soon, Stark has to deal with a constant barrage of lightning and pineapple-sized hale battering at his magic shields, tornadoes and gale-force winds buffeting him about, and temperatures so cold they threaten to break his concentration. Thor, the god of thunder, thrives in the violent storm he's built from nothing and adds his own offenses to it. Even with the increased reaction time his armor grants him, the distractions and Thor's blistering offense prove too overwhelming and Stark falls.

Aquaman, the Black Knight, and Antibody vs. Brainiac 417, Death Wolverine, and Midnighter
Aquaman tries his telepathy against Brainiac but finds his mind too well protected. So he switches to physical combat, but his blows pass right through the intangible genius. Meanwhile, with the advanced Kryptonian resources of Kandor at his disposal, Brainiac has prepared a trap for Aquaman and he leads Orin right to it. He chases Brainiac into an alleyway where a device uses Aquaman's own heightened senses against him, bombarding him with bright lights and ultrasonic sounds and leaving him reeling. Another device brings up an impenetrable force field that contains Aquaman, effectively taking him out of the fight.

Meanwhile, Randy O'Brien faces off against the deadliest man in the Wildstorm universe. Left on his own, Randy had only just begun to scratch the surface of his antibodies' abilities as tactical assets, but with Thor, the Black Knight, Aquaman, and Captain Atom all contributing ideas, he has no problem coming up with new uses--like manifesting an inexhaustible army of antibodies against the vastly more lethally skilled Midnighter while Randy keeps quiet and camouflages himself as just another antibody, forcing the Midnighter to deal with every antibody instead of singling Randy out as the source. Even though Randy regrets using his antbiodies as expendable fodder, he has done so in the past when it proved necessary. Even so, the Midnighter tears through his antibodies with ease. So Randy switches to another tactic his teammates suggested: the antibodies communicate by touching a person and transmitting their experiences directly into that person's mind. It's usually harmless, but with every new antibody transmitting their thoughts on contact to the Midnighter, it quickly proves an overwhelming distraction as his mind is flooded with image after image of Randy's life story, Kandor, even the Midnighter himself and the pain of each antibody's encounter with him. This, coupled with the antibodies phasing attacks (phasing into his body and solidifying slightly to cause enormous pain, just as the Vision and every other phaser does), gets the Midnighter off his guard, even with his mental and physical enhancements, enough to allow Randy the opening he needs. He releases another dozen antibodies and quickly reabsorbs them, multiplying his own strength. Then he joins the fray with his antibodies, pummeling the Midnighter into unconsciousness through superior numbers and strength.

The Black Knight summons Strider and charges at Death, who vanishes. Death reappears behind Dane and takes a swing with his sword, but Dane blocks it with the Ebony Blade. Death camouflages himself again, trying to keep Dane off guard, but Dane sees what he's planning and switches to the Sword of Light and the Shield of Night. Death continues his hit-and-cloak assault, but now Dane is absorbing the energy of every attack blocked with the Shield of Night. When he feels he's gathered enough, he has Strider take off at high speed, never staying still long enough for Death to hit him. Death teleports directly ahead of Dane, intending to knock him off of Strider, but Dane breaks off, taking Strider into the air. Death, surprised at the sudden change in tactics, leaves himself open long enough to be hit by the massive blast of energy Dane fires from the Sword of Light--the combined energy of every blow Death himself tried to kill Dane with. In spite of that incredible force, Death's healing factor and armor allow him to stay conscious, though he is dazed. Dane switches to his photonic sword, switches to its maximum setting, and jabs it straight into Death's forehead, disrupting his entire central nervous system to the point that it would kill any normal person. The overload is so intense that Death is rendered unconscious. Dane destroys the armor that grants Death his cloaking and teleportational abilities

Brainiac 417 tries to attack Randy while he savors his victory, but Randy's antibodies notice him and try to stop him, but Brainiac 417 is still intangible. Brainiac tries his sensory overload device again, which blinds Randy (the sonic part of it was tuned to Aquaman's heightened senses, so Randy can't even hear it) and all his antibodies. Just like Midnighter, however, he's unable to determine which is the true Randy.

Dane, having defeated Death, seeks out his allies. He finds Aquaman trapped, pounding at the confines of his energy prison. An energy-absorbing swipe of the Ebony Blade later, Aquaman's free and moves to assist Randy. Dane stays a while, putting his scientific knowledge to use figuring out how to operate the force field generator Brainiac 417 used to imprison Aquaman. He then locks Death and the Midnighter inside a force field, ensuring that they'll remain incapacitated even after their healing factors restore them to fighting condition.

Aquaman, the Black Knight, Antibody, and Thor vs. Brainiac 417
Nobody is able to lay a hand on Brainiac 417 due to his Bgztlian intangibility, and with his impressive array of weapons and devices, he manages to elude the three for a while. Thor, having defeated Sorcerer Supreme Stark, shows up and assists. He traces the energy of Brainiac's phasing back to the Phantom Zone with Mjolnir and follows it there. With Brainiac facing Thor when he phases his mass into the Phantom Zone and Aquaman, the Black Knight, and Antibody when he withdraws it and becomes tangible in normal space, he's taken down before long.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Disputes with Ahura's write-up

1. Stark wouldn't have been able to disarm Thor of Mjolnir. Yes, Strange performed that spell one time, but what Ahura's scan failed to show is that he only did so with a sliver of Mjolnir's leather thong, which he obtained from Loki. Strange himself admits in that same issue (Strange Tales vol. 1 #123, for those who care) that his "spells will not work on so alien an object." Stark doesn't conveniently happen to have his own piece of Mjolnir's leather thong, and no way is he slicing a bit of it off in the middle of battle and getting enough time to perform the complex spell seen in the issue. No leather = no spell.

2. Brainiac 417's moisture-draining device would do absolutely nothing against Aquaman. Since receiving the water hand, Aquaman is constantly connected to the Secret Sea, a mystical water source that keeps him permanently hydrated. Draining the moisture in Aquaman's body means the Secret Sea will just replenish it as it goes. The Secret Sea's supply has only been exhausted once, and that was due to a whole magical rivalry thing with an ancient evil known as the Thirst, who's pretty much custom-built for f***ing up the Secret Sea. Draining the Secret Sea essentially threatened to dehydrate the entire world.

3. Captain Atom's powers are all wrong in Ahura's write-up and he goes down like a total wuss without doing, really, anything he's actually capable of. Ahura seems to have written Captain Atom as the Atom, but they're very different characters and Captain Atom would've certainly put up more of a fight against Stark, especially since the version I have has some limited technopathy, which would make Stark's armor something of a liability.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Why I think the Authorititan's strategy won't work.


The main two points of his strategy revolve around Wonder Woman's telepathy and Engineer's technopathy. I feel that due to the contingencies there are too many chances for The Gang to overpower the 'Titans. I feel that Brainiac's defenses are advanced enough to be able to at least balk the Engineer's work. Enough for teamwork and superior firepower to win the day. I also don't believe that her technopathy would be strong enough to defeat the AI in the Ring. The most powerful weapon in the universe wouldn't be worth much if every technopath in the galaxy could take over the AI.

Even Aristotle has conceded that my conservative approach is hard to defeat.


:gl: :gl: :gl:

 

[Aristotle]

Wonder Woman. Great. Time to go to work.

Green Lantern fires mutiple constructs at Wonder Woman. Then several more images of the amazon appears.

"Ring?"

"Multiple images produced are not the product of illusory light or matter. Massive alpha wave traffic detected."

Telepathy. Guess Brainy's mind trick isn't working. No problem.

Emerald energy streaks from the ring and helmets appear on Hal and Valkryie.

Actually, Wonder Woman does not create images in the mind of an opponent. She literally telepathically creates the images in the real world. That doesn't mean that they really exist, but they aren't something to be blocked by psi-blockers, because they come from out of her, not from within the opponent's mind. Also, GL is not expecting this from Wonder Woman. He's going to be taken by surprise. He won't just go, "Ring?"

And why does Wonder Woman wait to use her power until she actually reaches GL? That makes no sense. Which brings me to the problem with most of the matchups: my characters' actions make no sense.

You write my guys as just stupidly doddering up to their enemies, one at a time, wandering straight into their opponents' arms. They don't work as a team at all. Your guys don't really work as a team either, but they closer approximate one, and they act with intelligence. For these reasons, I don't think your writeup can be seen as the superior one.

Regarding the part where I said Frank had a winning strategy: that very same evaluation is also what damns him to lose this one. The strategy that his team employs in both our writeups would be a winner if he wasn't facing my particular strategy. Basically, it would take a pair of uber speedsters to breach those forcefields, or it would take my strategy.

 

[Aristotle]

The main two points of his strategy revolve around Wonder Woman's telepathy and Engineer's technopathy.

That's an oversimplification. The strategy works because of each specific team member. The Wonder Woman fakes out Barry, Wally sets a screen for Quicksilver, Quicksilver takes it to the bucket. Wally and Wonder Woman engage Hal and Barry, switch partners, and then switch partners again, confusing and disorienting their opponents and maintaining the upper hand and achieving the win. And my lower-levels work with the very stuff of the city to take down your remaining lower-levels. I've got a full, well-rounded team strategy that plays to the specific strengths of my guys and to the weaknesses of yours. I'm also fortunate enough to have plotted your team's strategy very similarly to how you plotted it, at least as far as your opening moves go. And all that's enough for the win.

I feel that Brainiac's defenses are advanced enough to be able to at least balk the Engineer's work.

They just aren't. At the end of the day, he is an organic that's good with computers. Engineer can think and work as fast as the tech she's interfacing with, and usually faster. She's got thought-speed far superior to Brainy's, and that's what's going to allow her to defeat any non-technopath that tries to stand up to her in the tech arena, and many technopaths as well, in seconds.

I also don't believe that her technopathy would be strong enough to defeat the AI in the Ring. The most powerful weapon in the universe wouldn't be worth much if every technopath in the galaxy could take over the AI.

I'm not pushing it, but I'm pretty sure I could. First, she's not "every technopath in the galaxy." Second, Hal basically makes it vulnerable to co-optation by opening a channel to the mainframe. She'll control it before he even knows the fight's begun.

Even Aristotle has conceded that my conservative approach is hard to defeat.

Hard, yes, but my guys are the guys to do it, with the plan I've laid out.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Actually, Wonder Woman does not create images in the mind of an opponent. She literally telepathically creates the images in the real world. That doesn't mean that they really exist, but they aren't something to be blocked by psi-blockers, because they come from out of her, not from within the opponent's mind. Telepathy doesn't work like that.

That's illusions or magic. Telepathy invades the enemies mind and makes them believe what they are seeing. Otherwise it wouldn't be telepathy.


Also, GL is not expecting this from Wonder Woman. He's going to be taken by surprise. He won't just go, "Ring?"

Hal Jordan is aware of Wonder Woman's telepathy. Because of the rules.

Teams will be given a very brief description of the opponents in the form of character names, pictures, and basic breakdown of powers (provided by team owners).

The description provided by the owner is as follows.

Wonder Woman (Mental Powers) (DU) - Superstrength, superspeed, martial arts capability, and agility derived from extreme mental focus and Amazonian training, Flight, Superbreath, Telepathy, Microscopic vision

And why does Wonder Woman wait to use her power until she actually reaches GL? That makes no sense. Which brings me to the problem with most of the matchups: my characters' actions make no sense.

You write my guys as just stupidly doddering up to their enemies, one at a time, wandering straight into their opponents' arms. They don't work as a team at all. Your guys don't really work as a team either, but they closer approximate one, and they act with intelligence. For these reasons, I don't think your writeup can be seen as the superior one.

I don't plan on giving the enemy a superior fighting tactic. My team has tacticians and geniuses. The only way to represent that is by having superior plan from the beginning. I still give your characters a fighting chance. I had the Engineer defeat Flash and Brainiac. I used Quicksilver in a way that is consistent with his character. Always rushing in without thinking too much. Wonder Woman doesn't hide when there is a fight. Especially when two of her enemies are in plain view. As for the two Flashes, I didn't figure that it would take very long for the both of them to see each other. I also made some of your team invisible to scanners despite Brainiac's expertise. I also limit the teamwork of both teams because of the rules regarding Uber's attacking lower ranked opponents. This limits teamwork on both sides.

Regarding the part where I said Frank had a winning strategy: that very same evaluation is also what damns him to lose this one. The strategy that his team employs in both our writeups would be a winner if he wasn't facing my particular strategy. Basically, it would take a pair of uber speedsters to breach those forcefields, or it would take my strategy.

I disagree.


:gl: :gl: :gl:

 

[Aristotle]

That's illusions or magic. Telepathy invades the enemies mind and makes them believe what they are seeing. Otherwise it wouldn't be telepathy.

Not everything a telepath does is strictly-defined mental invasion. Like psionic blasts, for example. What Wonder Woman's telepathic power enables her to do is create images that exist as images in the real world. The illusion of causing real damage is traditional telepathy, but you don't have Hal asking what's causing the damage.

Hal Jordan is aware of Wonder Woman's telepathy. Because of the rules.

Hal Jordan's going to be expecting Wonder Woman plus telepathy, whereas this is a pretty substantially different Wonder Woman from what he's used to. He's not used to facing an army of Wonder Women. Bottom line, that's going to take anybody by surprise, and you have him reacted pretty calmly and coolly. Futhermore, Wonder Woman and her images are moving at superspeed, and Hal doesn't think/react/speak at superspeed. They're going to be on him, beating the crap out of him, before he knows what's up, and he will be thinking much more about defending himself than about conversations with his ring.

I don't plan on giving the enemy a superior fighting tactic.

It's a pretty long walk from "superior fighting tactic" to "Midnighter just kinda walks up to Valkyrie, Engineer gets boned by a virus, Wonder Woman just kinda lets GL have his way with her, and Flash gets into one of those ******ed speed races for no good reason, and best of all, Quicksilver just ****ing runs right into a trap that he already knows is going to be there." Seriously, man, you wrote my guys like they were stupid first graders.

My team has tacticians and geniuses.

My team has Midnighter, one of the best strategists and tacticians in superhero comics.

I still give your characters a fighting chance.

Really? You basically just have Wonder Woman lie down and get her ass kicked. Midnighter just rolls into his fight with a god naked, acting like a stupider version of Batzarro. This guy can calculate every outcome of a fight in his head, and he just walks up to a Norse god on a flying horse and hopes he'll survive? What?

I used Quicksilver in a way that is consistent with his character.

I didn't realize that his character consistently chooses to be stupid and run into walls which he knows are going to be therewhen a practically foolproof plan around those walls is presented to him and he has 24 hours to sit and think about it! It's kinda hard to appeal to voters by saying that Quicksilver acts impulsively when he has 24 hours to sit on his ass and cool off and prepare himself and figure out how to make the plan work.

Wonder Woman doesn't hide when there is a fight. Especially when two of her enemies are in plain view.

You don't read much Wonder Woman if that's how you see her, and you certainly haven't read much Golden/Silver Age Wonder Woman, which is where my version comes from. Golden and Silver Age DC was all about out-thinking supervillains, rather than punching them out, because they would always have these crazy Dick Sprang Rube Goldberg machines and byzantine puzzles that the hero would have to outwit. My Wonder Woman is more than willing to fight using logic and common sense and a plan, as opposed to just being ******ed, charging Green Lantern, and then, after conjuring up a few image projections, just letting GL **** her up.

I also limit the teamwork of both teams because of the rules regarding Uber's attacking lower ranked opponents. This limits teamwork on both sides.

There's nothing that says an uber can't attack a med's forcefield. Wally makes no move to attack Sue. He just leaves her open for an attack from Quicksilver.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Not everything a telepath does is strictly-defined mental invasion. Like psionic blasts, for example. What Wonder Woman's telepathic power enables her to do is create images that exist as images in the real world. The illusion of causing real damage is traditional telepathy, but you don't have Hal asking what's causing the damage.


Hal Jordan's going to be expecting Wonder Woman plus telepathy, whereas this is a pretty substantially different Wonder Woman from what he's used to. He's not used to facing an army of Wonder Women. Bottom line, that's going to take anybody by surprise, and you have him reacted pretty calmly and coolly. Futhermore, Wonder Woman and her images are moving at superspeed, and Hal doesn't think/react/speak at superspeed. They're going to be on him, beating the crap out of him, before he knows what's up, and he will be thinking much more about defending himself than about conversations with his ring.


I disagree with how telepathy works then. Making all this moot.


It's a pretty long walk from "superior fighting tactic" to "Midnighter just kinda walks up to Valkyrie, I'm sorry. I figured that they would have to battle eventually. Or would you rather I write it to where Midnighter gets the immediate advantage just cause? Engineer gets boned by a virus, Engineer got boned by the superior power of the Invisible Woman. Wonder Woman just kinda lets GL have his way with her, "GL had a legitimate tactic by blinding her. I could have used a bunch more in a series of battles but the point is he wins. As he should. and Flash gets into one of those ******ed speed races for no good reason, the good reason was that they agreed to it and they ended up fighting anyway with Wally about to steal all of Barry's speed, which he prolly couldn't do anyway. and best of all, Quicksilver just ****ing runs right into a trap that he already knows is going to be there." Seriously, man, you wrote my guys like they were stupid first graders. So you're saying that Quicksilver isn't a brash guy and he can see invisible forcefields?

My team has Midnighter, one of the best strategists and tacticians in superhero comics. And my team has a level 12 genius and a Goddess.

Really? You basically just have Wonder Woman lie down and get her ass kicked. The battle is compressed for time. You want me to write a book that you'll have to read that eventually ends with GL winning? Midnighter just rolls into his fight with a god naked, acting like a stupider version of Batzarro. This guy can calculate every outcome of a fight in his head, and he just walks up to a Norse god on a flying horse and hopes he'll survive? What? She flew down and dismounted giving him a fair fight. He wouldn't take it?

I didn't realize that his character consistently chooses to be stupid and run into walls which he knows are going to be therewhen a practically foolproof plan around those walls is presented to him and he has 24 hours to sit and think about it! It's kinda hard to appeal to voters by saying that Quicksilver acts impulsively when he has 24 hours to sit on his ass and cool off and prepare himself and figure out how to make the plan work. See above and yes Quicksilver is an idiot. And I still say he wouldn't remember where every invisible force field would be. Unless no deviations from whatever a precog says is permissible. And if that is the case then precogs need to be banned.

You don't read much Wonder Woman if that's how you see her, and you certainly haven't read much Golden/Silver Age Wonder Woman, which is where my version comes from. Golden and Silver Age DC was all about out-thinking supervillains, rather than punching them out, because they would always have these crazy Dick Sprang Rube Goldberg machines and byzantine puzzles that the hero would have to outwit. My Wonder Woman is more than willing to fight using logic and common sense and a plan, as opposed to just being ******ed, charging Green Lantern, and then, after conjuring up a few image projections, just letting GL **** her up. Again. Compressed for time with GL winning.

There's nothing that says an uber can't attack a med's forcefield. Wally makes no move to attack Sue. He just leaves her open for an attack from Quicksilver. The fight between Barry and Wally lasted about 20 seconds. I even make a note of how quick it was when Brainy sees Barry. So Wally is gone by the time the others engage in battle. I did take Barry out so that at least the odds were even. So in effect a medium took out an uber.

:gl: :gl: :gl:

 

[Aristotle]

I'm sorry. I figured that they would have to battle eventually. Or would you rather I write it to where Midnighter gets the immediate advantage just cause?

He just. Walks. Up to her.

Engineer got boned by the superior power of the Invisible Woman.

You have her getting beaten by a virus from Brainiac first.

GL had a legitimate tactic by blinding her.

She's a telepath! She can sense him!

the good reason was that they agreed to it

Seriously? That's your reason?

So you're saying that Quicksilver isn't a brash guy and he can see invisible forcefields?

I'm saying he's not mentally ******ed.

The battle is compressed for time. You want me to write a book that you'll have to read that eventually ends with GL winning?

I'd like to see a strategy that doesn't rely on Wonder Woman not fighting.

She flew down and dismounted giving him a fair fight. He wouldn't take it?

At the point where your reg has to downgrade herself mid-match just to have a fair fight with one of the best regs in the game, she's starting to sound med. But at any rate, no, he wouldn't. He would try to use actual strategy.

And I still say he wouldn't remember where every invisible force field would be. Unless no deviations from whatever a precog says is permissible. And if that is the case then precogs need to be banned.

He's following the Flash and he has telepathic cues from Wonder Woman! What more does he need? What's this about a precog?

I did take Barry out so that at least the odds were even. So in effect a medium took out an uber.

You're missing the whole point of what doesn't work about your writeup. I don't dispute that you shouldn't write my team with the most awesome strategy ever. But they should act like a team, and their actions should go a bit beyond, "Midnighter walks up to Valkyrie and loses. Wonder Woman flies up to Hal and loses. Etc., etc."

 

[Ahura Mazda]

1. Stark wouldn't have been able to disarm Thor of Mjolnir. Yes, Strange performed that spell one time, but what Ahura's scan failed to show is that he only did so with a sliver of Mjolnir's leather thong, which he obtained from Loki. Strange himself admits in that same issue (Strange Tales vol. 1 #123, for those who care) that his "spells will not work on so alien an object." Stark doesn't conveniently happen to have his own piece of Mjolnir's leather thong, and no way is he slicing a bit of it off in the middle of battle and getting enough time to perform the complex spell seen in the issue. No leather = no spell.

I will give you that as I was unaware of that part. However please note that this is only after Captain Atom is banished; something which he can in no way prevent as it was done to him before. Starnge then is just helping the Hulk further in this battle of titans.

2. Brainiac 417's moisture-draining device would do absolutely nothing against Aquaman. Since receiving the water hand, Aquaman is constantly connected to the Secret Sea, a mystical water source that keeps him permanently hydrated. Draining the moisture in Aquaman's body means the Secret Sea will just replenish it as it goes. The Secret Sea's supply has only been exhausted once, and that was due to a whole magical rivalry thing with an ancient evil known as the Thirst, who's pretty much custom-built for f***ing up the Secret Sea. Draining the Secret Sea essentially threatened to dehydrate the entire world.

Acquaman would have nothing to harm Brainiac this whole time and would be vulnerable as well to his force fields which could be used offensively. The dehydrating device would have an effect on him as he has been shown to be weaker the longer he stays out of water.

3. Captain Atom's powers are all wrong in Ahura's write-up and he goes down like a total wuss without doing, really, anything he's actually capable of. Ahura seems to have written Captain Atom as the Atom, but they're very different characters and Captain Atom would've certainly put up more of a fight against Stark, especially since the version I have has some limited technopathy, which would make Stark's armor something of a liability.

It is not that I wrote him as a complete wuss but rather he has no powers that could remotely affect Stark. First off, you are forgetting his armour is not the same as in the 616 universe and that it is magically based. The composition is even magical. There is no way his limited technopathy could affect the magic of the armour. Plus he cannot stop Stark as he has no defence against magic even with his power upgrades.

My own difficulties with Corp's writing:

1. This is my major point I do not envisage a single story where Thor sends someone else to fight Hulk. He enjoys battling the great beast who always insulted him when they were a team. Plus he revels in battle and would enjoy trying to take down this upgraded version of the beast who defeated him in the past.

2. Stark's magic does not just easily get drained by Thor. Strange's magic withstood poeple like Warlock with the infinity gauntlet. Stark has the same magical talents but he can throw spells faster then Strange. If he was going to go down this route it would be a very long battle and I would not give Thor the victory.

3. Eventhough Brainiac is given a very good showing (Corp does agree he would take down Aquaman in any case) I do not think Dane could take down Death who lets not forget, heals almost instantly and in this case flies as well teleports. In addition, let us not he is a killer and would not qualm over killing strider if he thought it was giving Dane an advantage. Plus, if he felt he had no option Logan would allow dane to stab him while stabbing him back effectively killing him while he would heal very quickly.

4. Draining Hulk of the energy was tried by several during WWH and they all were overloaded. Strong Guy had a heart attack and that other mutant couldn't take it, developing a power to teleport away. Hulk is continuously creating more and in a fight with Atom you could be sure sonic booms would be occuring which would endanger Atom's own senses. Plus the Hulk was contiunously getting angry as was noted when he changed back into the Hulk after having defeated Sentry threatening to sink the eastern seabord into the sea. In any case, I do not see Thor giving up the opprotunity to fight the Hulk.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I will give you that as I was unaware of that part. However please note that this is only after Captain Atom is banished; something which he can in no way prevent as it was done to him before. Starnge then is just helping the Hulk further in this battle of titans.

He's got a dimensional teleporter with a hammer that can trace pretty much anything, if the early Journey Into Mystery issues are to be believed, and Thor's a lot faster than both Stark and the Hulk. Once Stark shows up to muck up Thor's fight with the Hulk, it wouldn't take Thor too long to break away, figure out where Atom went, and bring him back.

Acquaman would have nothing to harm Brainiac this whole time and would be vulnerable as well to his force fields which could be used offensively. The dehydrating device would have an effect on him as he has been shown to be weaker the longer he stays out of water.

He'd been shown to get weaker out of water before he got the water hand. That's in the past now. There's a point in the first arc with the water hand where he specifically says that he can't dry out anymore because he's always connected to a water source--the Secret Sea--through the hand.

Also, while it's true Aquaman couldn't do much against Brainiac, he could still hold him off long enough for his teammates to arrive and assist. This is a guy who's lifted an entire city block and knocked the Martian Manhunter around.

It is not that I wrote him as a complete wuss but rather he has no powers that could remotely affect Stark. First off, you are forgetting his armour is not the same as in the 616 universe and that it is magically based. The composition is even magical. There is no way his limited technopathy could affect the magic of the armour. Plus he cannot stop Stark as he has no defence against magic even with his power upgrades.

What was all that stuff about "his smallest size," then? You didn't just make him a wuss, you made him a wuss with the wrong powers.

As for the armor, that's pure speculation. Regardless of whatever magic enhancements Stark made to his armor, he still built it through traditional, technological means. That's the whole point of the character: he's a synthesis of magic and technology. The armor's still a working piece of tech, not a bunch of metal that's solely powered through magic. It's technological, hence technopathy would have some effect on it.

While it's true he doesn't have a specific defense against Stark's magic, Stark's magic in the heat of battle, in the only actual issue we have to judge him on, broke down to throwing energy blasts at Dormammu and defending against the same from Dormammu, as do most of Dr. Strange's fights and many other mages' fights. Captain Atom can do the same; it's just a different type of energy--specifically, any energy he wants. There's nothing that says he can't manipulate magical energy as well, so arguing either way about that is speculation. But the Silver Surfer, a comparable energy manipulator to Captain Atom, has held his own against magic powerhouses. Atom's also strong enough to knock Mr. Majestic around, so he's clearly strong enough to break free from magical entrapments like the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, which the Hulk and Namor have broken free from with brute strength. Captain Atom's not going to just roll over because Stark can use magic. Indeed, few characters mages actually fight in the comics do, whether they have their own magic or not. The mages have to take their lumps and duke it out just like anyone else. If they could snap their fingers and knock an opponent out, they'd clearly be too uber--which, coincidentally, many people already think they are because they can do stuff like stop time whenever they want.

My own difficulties with Corp's writing:

1. This is my major point I do not envisage a single story where Thor sends someone else to fight Hulk. He enjoys battling the great beast who always insulted him when they were a team. Plus he revels in battle and would enjoy trying to take down this upgraded version of the beast who defeated him in the past.

Really? You can't come up with a single story where Thor's let someone take a strong opponent on so he can deal with a stronger one? Souped up Hulk or not, Strange is clearly the greater threat and Thor, a great warrior with a great tactical mind, would recognize that. If he sees that he'll be more effective against another opponent, he'll leave the Hulk to someone else.

2. Stark's magic does not just easily get drained by Thor. Strange's magic withstood poeple like Warlock with the infinity gauntlet. Stark has the same magical talents but he can throw spells faster then Strange. If he was going to go down this route it would be a very long battle and I would not give Thor the victory.

Well, yeah, I wouldn't expect you to give your opponent's character a victory. Regardless, I never said Thor drained any of Stark's magic. He used Mjolnir to defend himself against that magic, which he's done many times against Loki, the Enchantress, Zeus, and various other magic foes over the years. He's practically built to fight major magic threats, in fact, coming from a world as filled with magic as Asgard. As I mentioned before, mages' battles usually break down to throwing energy attack spells back and forth, and Thor could certainly use Mjolnir to defend himself from that, and in fact he has.

3. Eventhough Brainiac is given a very good showing (Corp does agree he would take down Aquaman in any case) I do not think Dane could take down Death who lets not forget, heals almost instantly and in this case flies as well teleports. In addition, let us not he is a killer and would not qualm over killing strider if he thought it was giving Dane an advantage. Plus, if he felt he had no option Logan would allow dane to stab him while stabbing him back effectively killing him while he would heal very quickly.

Death still fought like Wolverine and Dane's proven to be a match for Wolverine in the X-Men vs. Avengers mini-series. Killing Strider is easier said than done when he can survive in any environment and break the speed of sound. That means he's got pretty high-end durability and speed. Killing Dane is also easier said than done, given that he's as skilled a fighter as Captain America, plus I had him blocking Wolverine's hits with a giant shield, so it's not like he was really leaving himself open.

4. Draining Hulk of the energy was tried by several during WWH and they all were overloaded. Strong Guy had a heart attack and that other mutant couldn't take it, developing a power to teleport away. Hulk is continuously creating more and in a fight with Atom you could be sure sonic booms would be occuring which would endanger Atom's own senses. Plus the Hulk was contiunously getting angry as was noted when he changed back into the Hulk after having defeated Sentry threatening to sink the eastern seabord into the sea. In any case, I do not see Thor giving up the opprotunity to fight the Hulk.

Captain Atom isn't Strong Guy or any other mutant. He's a grade-A energy manipulator. The Silver Surfer drained an angry Hulk of his gamma energy in about a second with a wave of his hand. If Captain Atom drains WWH Hulk at that rate, he's going to start putting a dent into the Hulk's energy reserves pretty quickly. Also, we saw in WWH itself that the Hulk's gamma energy wasn't inexhaustible, since he burned himself out fighting the Sentry at the end. He transformed back quickly, but Atom's got super-speed and a huge strength advantage over Banner, so I'm sure he could knock him out before he could transform again. And, if all else fails, there is also the fact that Captain Atom literally forced a guy with similar powers to the Hulk to return to his human form with little effort. I paid WWH Hulk's amped up powers their fair share of respect by even having Atom drain the Hulk at all before attempting that. Atom's got pretty much every advantage except for strength over the Hulk, and he's a smart enough soldier to know not to put the ball in the Hulk's court by fighting him with brute strength anyway. With all that in mind and the fact that my team's stacked with leaders, kings, and soldiers who know how to assess resources and strategize effectively, I don't believe there's any argument to be made for Atom not fighting the Hulk.

That brings me to one additional dispute with Ahura's write-up: Teamwork. My team is composed of heroes, all of whom have served either on superhero teams, in the military, or both. They've got a god who regularly leads his people into battle against giants with vastly superior strength and size, an experienced Air Force officer who's commanded other officers and led a version of the Justice League, a knight who's been through both ancient wars and countless modern super-powered battles and who's also led the Avengers, a king who commands all of Atlantis' forces and serves on the Justice League, and a very intelligent doctor with military training who became the de facto leader of his small group of superhumans. These are people who know how to work together effectively without egos or vendettas getting in the way.

Ahura's team consists of the WWH Hulk and a variant of Tony Stark. Yes, he addressed the Hulk's animosity toward Stark in the prep, but come on, Brainiac says Stark's from another reality and the Hulk just happily accepts it? This is the same Hulk who tried to kill Charles Xavier, who had nothing to do with his exile, simply because he thought Xavier would have voted to exile him. This is the Hulk who saw Hercules, Amadeus Cho, and others trying to help him and still beat the living s*** out of Hercules anyway. There is no reining him in with a simple "oh, this is an alternaverse Tony, no worries." Then there's Death, who's a Horseman of Apocalypse. When have we really seen Horsemen of Apocalypse do anything other than obey Apocalypse blindly and try to kill the weak? Hell, Death tried to kill the Hulk for abandoning his post as War in the comics. Somehow, I don't see him following orders too readily. The Midnighter's more of a team player, but he's certainly not an easily controllable one. He'll go off and do his own thing if he doesn't feel like anyone else is being very effective, and with the line-up Ahura's fielded the only thing that would be getting done effectively is lots and lots of infighting.

There was supposed to be a stronger emphasis on teamwork in the DTL last season, and it was precisely because of people fielding teams like Ahura's and expecting them to get along perfectly well with each other, which is unrealistic and doesn't stay true to the characters at all.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Let me take this point by point

He's got a dimensional teleporter with a hammer that can trace pretty much anything, if the early Journey Into Mystery issues are to be believed, and Thor's a lot faster than both Stark and the Hulk. Once Stark shows up to muck up Thor's fight with the Hulk, it wouldn't take Thor too long to break away, figure out where Atom went, and bring him back.

First off if Atom is gone and Thor leaves then Stark and Hulk are free to mop up the rest. Stark could end the battle in a minute and as such the game would be lost. can Thor with illimited time do what you say, of course he can but it takes time to do that. First off, he would be engaged in a battle with the Hulk which is not something where he is given much time to swing his hammer in a circle to leave. Plus Stark would most probably banish him into the Crossways which are full of different worlds and it would be extremely hard to find his trace.

He'd been shown to get weaker out of water before he got the water hand. That's in the past now. There's a point in the first arc with the water hand where he specifically says that he can't dry out anymore because he's always connected to a water source--the Secret Sea--through the hand.

Ok - I had not been that up to date with him and based what I worte on what I read in wikipedia. However I still think Brainiac would not come on top, and Brainiac who is the most intelligent entity in this competition (and just a bit more intelligent then me ) would have used a different way such as the way you suggested which would work just as well.

Also, while it's true Aquaman couldn't do much against Brainiac, he could still hold him off long enough for his teammates to arrive and assist. This is a guy who's lifted an entire city block and knocked the Martian Manhunter around.

And how would his strength protect him against a spirit who his intelligence does not fit in anyone's scale.


[

What was all that stuff about "his smallest size," then? You didn't just make him a wuss, you made him a wuss with the wrong powers.

He still has that power if I read correctly or are you saing I am completely worng. But given he cannot just absorb magical energy and he cannot get through Stark's magical shields then I would imagine that he would think he could pass through rings which do not completely encompass Stark. It waqs a valid strategy.

[

As for the armor, that's pure speculation. Regardless of whatever magic enhancements Stark made to his armor, he still built it through traditional, technological means. That's the whole point of the character: he's a synthesis of magic and technology. The armor's still a working piece of tech, not a bunch of metal that's solely powered through magic. It's technological, hence technopathy would have some effect on it.

In the comic, and I will check again, I remeber him building it using spells and such. Yes there was some technology but there was more magic then technology which is how Stark could leave it and the armour was able to fire off spells without him against Dormammu.

[

While it's true he doesn't have a specific defense against Stark's magic, Stark's magic in the heat of battle, in the only actual issue we have to judge him on, broke down to throwing energy blasts at Dormammu and defending against the same from Dormammu, as do most of Dr. Strange's fights and many other mages' fights. Captain Atom can do the same; it's just a different type of energy--specifically, any energy he wants. There's nothing that says he can't manipulate magical energy as well, so arguing either way about that is speculation. But the Silver Surfer, a comparable energy manipulator to Captain Atom, has held his own against magic powerhouses. Atom's also strong enough to knock Mr. Majestic around, so he's clearly strong enough to break free from magical entrapments like the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, which the Hulk and Namor have broken free from with brute strength. Captain Atom's not going to just roll over because Stark can use magic. Indeed, few characters mages actually fight in the comics do, whether they have their own magic or not. The mages have to take their lumps and duke it out just like anyone else. If they could snap their fingers and knock an opponent out, they'd clearly be too uber--which, coincidentally, many people already think they are because they can do stuff like stop time whenever they want.

Ok lest break down these points.

First off, the energy bolts which come off as green are godly in nature and totally magical therefore do not come from any element on the periodic table. Therefore Atom which is limited to scientific energy cannot affect Stark.

Second, the Crimson bands were broken by a very enraged Hulk who has feats of strength considerably beyond anything Captain Atom has ever done and a Submariner which was I beleive emerged in water where his strength is supposedly limitless. If not emerged he had just had a bath.

Third, Stark does not need to use them to banish Captain Atom.

[

Really? You can't come up with a single story where Thor's let someone take a strong opponent on so he can deal with a stronger one? Souped up Hulk or not, Strange is clearly the greater threat and Thor, a great warrior with a great tactical mind, would recognize that. If he sees that he'll be more effective against another opponent, he'll leave the Hulk to someone else.

Thor has let others take a strong opponent but since when as he let anyone take the Hulk. Just look at the Rulk comic (yes it is very badly written but it is cannon ), he couldn't keep his nose out of that business and it had nothing to do with him. Thor loves to fight the Hulk. He revels in that. I do not seem him choosing another opponent when the Hulk is there.

[

Well, yeah, I wouldn't expect you to give your opponent's character a victory. Regardless, I never said Thor drained any of Stark's magic. He used Mjolnir to defend himself against that magic, which he's done many times against Loki, the Enchantress, Zeus, and various other magic foes over the years. He's practically built to fight major magic threats, in fact, coming from a world as filled with magic as Asgard. As I mentioned before, mages' battles usually break down to throwing energy attack spells back and forth, and Thor could certainly use Mjolnir to defend himself from that, and in fact he has.

You are also forgetting that Stark could just as well have Thor foregt his hammor using spells that cause forgetfulness. His energy bolts are casted autmatically by his armour. However, of course, I do not think it would be Stark battling Thor but the Hulk.

[

Death still fought like Wolverine and Dane's proven to be a match for Wolverine in the X-Men vs. Avengers mini-series. Killing Strider is easier said than done when he can survive in any environment and break the speed of sound. That means he's got pretty high-end durability and speed. Killing Dane is also easier said than done, given that he's as skilled a fighter as Captain America, plus I had him blocking Wolverine's hits with a giant shield, so it's not like he was really leaving himself open.

I never said it was easy, I was just expecting death would live up to his name and get it done. And his durability does not stand up to energy swords and adamantium.

Captain Atom isn't Strong Guy or any other mutant. He's a grade-A energy manipulator. The Silver Surfer drained an angry Hulk of his gamma energy in about a second with a wave of his hand. If Captain Atom drains WWH Hulk at that rate, he's going to start putting a dent into the Hulk's energy reserves pretty quickly. Also, we saw in WWH itself that the Hulk's gamma energy wasn't inexhaustible, since he burned himself out fighting the Sentry at the end. He transformed back quickly, but Atom's got super-speed and a huge strength advantage over Banner, so I'm sure he could knock him out before he could transform again. And, if all else fails, there is also the fact that Captain Atom literally forced a guy with similar powers to the Hulk to return to his human form with little effort. I paid WWH Hulk's amped up powers their fair share of respect by even having Atom drain the Hulk at all before attempting that. Atom's got pretty much every advantage except for strength over the Hulk, and he's a smart enough soldier to know not to put the ball in the Hulk's court by fighting him with brute strength anyway. With all that in mind and the fact that my team's stacked with leaders, kings, and soldiers who know how to assess resources and strategize effectively, I don't believe there's any argument to be made for Atom not fighting the Hulk.

Ok this is a major point. Thor throughout his history has engaged Hulk even when he was not even threatenned by him. If this was not the Hulk and the Juggernaut for example, I could see a case where Thor would allow someone else to after him...but this is the Hulk. They have been battling since the 60s and Thor was just battling his doppleganger very recently. But this I wil leave to the voters to decide Given there have been more then 10 battles over the years and each time Thor was EAGER to fight him with the results you know better then I.

That brings me to one additional dispute with Ahura's write-up: Teamwork. My team is composed of heroes, all of whom have served either on superhero teams, in the military, or both. They've got a god who regularly leads his people into battle against giants with vastly superior strength and size, an experienced Air Force officer who's commanded other officers and led a version of the Justice League, a knight who's been through both ancient wars and countless modern super-powered battles and who's also led the Avengers, a king who commands all of Atlantis' forces and serves on the Justice League, and a very intelligent doctor with military training who became the de facto leader of his small group of superhumans. These are people who know how to work together effectively without egos or vendettas getting in the way.

Ahura's team consists of the WWH Hulk and a variant of Tony Stark. Yes, he addressed the Hulk's animosity toward Stark in the prep, but come on, Brainiac says Stark's from another reality and the Hulk just happily accepts it? This is the same Hulk who tried to kill Charles Xavier, who had nothing to do with his exile, simply because he thought Xavier would have voted to exile him. This is the Hulk who saw Hercules, Amadeus Cho, and others trying to help him and still beat the living s*** out of Hercules anyway. There is no reining him in with a simple "oh, this is an alternaverse Tony, no worries." Then there's Death, who's a Horseman of Apocalypse. When have we really seen Horsemen of Apocalypse do anything other than obey Apocalypse blindly and try to kill the weak? Hell, Death tried to kill the Hulk for abandoning his post as War in the comics. Somehow, I don't see him following orders too readily. The Midnighter's more of a team player, but he's certainly not an easily controllable one. He'll go off and do his own thing if he doesn't feel like anyone else is being very effective, and with the line-up Ahura's fielded the only thing that would be getting done effectively is lots and lots of infighting.

First off all of these guys have been teaming together for the past season and know each other. The Hulk is an educated person (funny saying that) in this incarnation and realises the purpose of this. Plus he beat up in Herc and others as they confronted him right after his initial first battles. He knows that his animosity would not be targeted at a guy from a different dimension which he knows exists. Plus he sees the occassion to battle "Goldilocks" once again which he enjoys as well even if he does not like the hammer. Death, also knows to follow orders and in this scenario would do so alongside others he knows very well.

 

[LadyVader]

I wanted to vote but I see there's some heavy duty debating still going on...

 

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now open

 

[Aristotle]

Here's what I want to say first:
Ahura, stopping time with Strange makes him inarguably tuber, to me, and also is very likely to garner a vote for Corp from me.
Corp, I think the way you force Hulk back into Banner is unworkable for the same reason that I wasn't allowed to screw with Reed Richards' powers using Red King last postseason. I tried to cross-apply one form of superpower manipulation that was really very specific, to a completely different superpower, and that's what you're doing here. If I wasn't already planning to vote against Ahura because of what I view as a tuber power use, I'd probably have a hard time voting for you here because of that.

I'm going to revise this, upon further consideration. I would straight-up vote for Ahura if it wasn't for Stark's tuber power. As it is, however, I have to vote Corp. Other than that, I think Ahura has a superior squad and a superior writeup. There's just a lot of holes in Corp's strategy, and the Immortals have always had a really stacked lineup. It's a tough battle and I don't think Corp wins, but Stark is tuber, and he really always has been, and you can only go so long without that becoming apparent and obvious.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

What's wrong with Captain Atom turning Hulk back into Banner? There are two components to the Hulk's transformation: gamma energy and a very specific shapeshift. Captain Atom can siphon energy, which has itself forced Hulk to turn back into Banner when used by the Silver Surfer once or twice, and he can force people to shift back to human form--he did it twice, once against Maul, as I mentioned, and another time against the Engineer, which I'd forgotten until I flipped through CA:A again today. I don't see how I'm applying it in any way other than how it was applied in the comic.

First off if Atom is gone and Thor leaves then Stark and Hulk are free to mop up the rest. Stark could end the battle in a minute and as such the game would be lost. can Thor with illimited time do what you say, of course he can but it takes time to do that. First off, he would be engaged in a battle with the Hulk which is not something where he is given much time to swing his hammer in a circle to leave. Plus Stark would most probably banish him into the Crossways which are full of different worlds and it would be extremely hard to find his trace.

Atom and Thor would be gone for a very short time. Thor's got very high super-speed, which he's demonstrated numerous times. The Hulk and Stark don't, meaning Thor could break away from them for a short while. Locating Atom in the Crossroads wouldn't be a problem, either, since Mjolnir can trace energy signatures--both Stark's teleport and Captain Atom, who's a giant quantum energy ball.

He still has that power if I read correctly or are you saing I am completely worng. But given he cannot just absorb magical energy and he cannot get through Stark's magical shields then I would imagine that he would think he could pass through rings which do not completely encompass Stark. It waqs a valid strategy.

Captain Atom has never had the power to shrink, as far as I know. That's the Atom, a different guy. Captain Atom's an energy manipulator with a direct link to the quantum field. Magic's just another kind of energy and Captain Atom's body has been stated to absorb all kinds of energy. I'm sure Captain Atom, who can summon up enough energy to knock around the likes of Majestic, Superman, and Firestorm, could managed to put some strain on Strange's shields, unless Strange's shields somehow make him tuber. If your aim with the Rings of Raggadorr was to prevent a tiny Captain Atom from getting to Stark, sure, I guess it was valid, since Captain Atom doesn't shrink.

In the comic, and I will check again, I remeber him building it using spells and such. Yes there was some technology but there was more magic then technology which is how Stark could leave it and the armour was able to fire off spells without him against Dormammu.

Either way, there's both magic and tech. The tech leaves his armor open to technopathy. It's all or nothing, you can't just say that the magic would protect his tech from technopathy just because, you need something to back it up.

First off, the energy bolts which come off as green are godly in nature and totally magical therefore do not come from any element on the periodic table. Therefore Atom which is limited to scientific energy cannot affect Stark.

I haven't seen anything to indicate that Captain Atom is solely limited to scientific energies. He's taken down an alternate universe's Dr. Fate before, so clearly he's got some means of fending off powerful mages.

Second, the Crimson bands were broken by a very enraged Hulk who has feats of strength considerably beyond anything Captain Atom has ever done and a Submariner which was I beleive emerged in water where his strength is supposedly limitless. If not emerged he had just had a bath.

Namor wasn't anywhere near water (http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4775/namorfeat23wb.gif) and Captain Atom is not only already among the top-tier in strength with the likes of Majestic, Maul, and Superman, he can amp his strength up even further using energy from the quantum field.

Thor has let others take a strong opponent but since when as he let anyone take the Hulk. Just look at the Rulk comic (yes it is very badly written but it is cannon ), he couldn't keep his nose out of that business and it had nothing to do with him. Thor loves to fight the Hulk. He revels in that. I do not seem him choosing another opponent when the Hulk is there.

Thor fights the Hulk because 9 times out of 10, the Hulk is threatening people and property. Rulk had been cutting a swath of destruction around the country, was accused of murdering the Abomination, and was on the run from SHIELD. It's not like Thor just saw a big guy and decided he'd pick a fight because he's totally obsessed with anything that even looks like the Hulk. He likes to test his might against the Hulk, which I noted, but when push comes to shove, he's a team player and he'll fight the guy he's more logically suited to fight. Teamwork is one of my team's strengths.

You are also forgetting that Stark could just as well have Thor foregt his hammor using spells that cause forgetfulness. His energy bolts are casted autmatically by his armour. However, of course, I do not think it would be Stark battling Thor but the Hulk.

Thor's mind is extremely resistant to any kind of mental tampering, and whoever or whatever is throwing energy at Thor would still find that energy absorbed or deflected by Mjolnir.

I never said it was easy, I was just expecting death would live up to his name and get it done. And his durability does not stand up to energy swords and adamantium.

Death didn't live up to his name any of the half-dozen times he fought the X-Men. He's essentially Wolverine with a few more tricks, and Dane's held his own against Wolverine and Captain America and he's beaten powerhouses like Mr. Hyde in the past. At best, Dane and Wolverine are an even match, but Dane's got the advantages of better weapons and much more speed when he's with Strider. Taking out Dane's horse to even the score is fine and dandy, but Death has to catch them first, which is unlikely.

First off all of these guys have been teaming together for the past season and know each other.

Not according to the rules: "Characters cannot remember previous seasons."

The Hulk is an educated person (funny saying that) in this incarnation and realises the purpose of this. Plus he beat up in Herc and others as they confronted him right after his initial first battles. He knows that his animosity would not be targeted at a guy from a different dimension which he knows exists. Plus he sees the occassion to battle "Goldilocks" once again which he enjoys as well even if he does not like the hammer. Death, also knows to follow orders and in this scenario would do so alongside others he knows very well.

I don't buy it. The Hulk's smarter, but he's never been that discerning of his foes. He sees a guy he hates, he attacks. He's unreasonable, even to his own Warbound, in WWH, in spite of his increased intelligence, and his bloodlust in that event was such that he'd attack basically anyone who tried to stop him from getting at his targets, including children in the WWH: X-Men mini and the Incredible Hulk tie-ins. This is not a guy who's going to easily fall in line and do the bidding of Stark, a guy who appears to be two of his worst enemies put together.

Death knows to follow Apocalypse's orders. The rules mention that the characters don't remember previous seasons, so all he'll see is the Hulk, whom he's tried to kill before and would likely try to kill again, and a bunch of nobodies who've apparently taken him away from his mission for Apocalypse. Following orders seems pretty unlikely.

Anyway, we're kind of going in circles now and voting's already open, so this is the last post I'll make on the debates. Good luck to all.