DTL Season 6-Week 2 (Set 2)

[DTL Commish]

The rules:
This is one of two threads containing matches.
These threads will be in use for 7 days. Days 1-4 (Oct 23-26) are strictly setup time for owners to post their battles, plead their cases, tell us their team’s strategies, breakdown the match ups, and do whatever else they can/want to do to try and convince you that their team would pull out a victory. Please, let the owners do this on their own with no help. Debating cannot begin until both owners post battles.

On Day 5 (Oct 27) I will post and tell everyone that voting may begin. Any votes cast before I open voting will not count. Look over the matchups and read the strategies, and take into consideration how in-character each character is. Afterwards, use your best judgment to decide who you think has the best chance to win the match. (Note: The length of a writeup is at the discretion of the owner. Do not punish owners just for having a shorter writeup.)

To vote, post the team names you think will prevail in each match. Remember to vote for all matches or your vote will not count! The teams with the highest vote total at the end of the 7th day (Oct 29) will get a W while the other will get an L. (Equal votes will result in a tie.)

The battleground for this week is: Giant-sized Toy Story House

The Polka Dot Fuchsia Lantern Corps
Thor (MU) - Super-strength/durability/speed, weather control, flight, magic hammer
X-Man (MU) - Vast psionic powers, flight
Doom 2099 (MM) - Super-strength/durability, genius, high-tech armor, intangibility, flight, magic, energy blasts
Nemesis (Charis) (DR) - Super-strength/durability/speed, empathy, stealth suit, indestructible twin swords
Patriarch (MR) - Super-strength/durability, teleportation

VS.

Yancy Street Gang
Dr. Doom (MU) - Genius, Armor, Mage, Gadgets, Personal Force-Fields, Energy Blasts
Graviton (MU) - Gravity Manipulation, Genius
Dracula (MM) - Vampire, Mind Control, Shape Shifter, Super Strength
Ultron-11 (MR) - AI, Adamantium Body, Disintegration Rays, Hypnotism, Flight, Super Strength
Mr. Fantastic (What If? 42) (MR) - Genius, Elasticity, Gadgets

_______________________________

The Immortals
Silver Surfer (Exiles) - Flight, superstrength, enhanced speed, energy and matter manipulation powers.
"Burnt Offering" Cable - Extremely powerful telepathy, telekinesis and regenerative ability.
Iceman - Manipulation of temperature and water, ice form which grants increased durability and strength
Midnighter - computer-enhanced brain that allows for enhanced reflexes as well as plotting possible moves an enemy can make, enhanced strength and speed
Death - Regenerative healing, indestructible skeleton and claws, armor which grants cloaking and short rang teleportation and increased durability. Sword which cuts through most material and fires energy blasts.

VS.

The Authorititans
Superman (Earth-16) (DU) - Superstrength, superspeed, flight, quantum telekinesis, heat vision
Spartan/Void (DU) - Flight, superstrength, energy manipulation, teleportation
Sebastian Faust (DM) - Magic
Midnighter (Post-Worldstorm) (DR) - Battle precog, enhanced abilities, martial arts genius
Quicksilver (MR) - superspeed

 

[Khellendros]

In the usual flash of light,t he Immortals appeared in the next place of battle. All veterans of the last season, introductions were interrupted when Norrin, never the most even-tempered participant, realized what Cable already had: his powers were gone. His razor-edged board was still there, but responded to none of his mental commands. His senses were reduced to the five he had been limited to before his transformation. He could feel the power within, knew how to use it still, but was completely cut off from access.

Before the enraged silver-clad scientist could settle into a long rant, Cable and the others convinced him to be patient, pointing out that there would be no point to the power loss being permanent when he was expected to fight tot eh best of his abilities.

At that moment, the expected headmail came, not only with the names and powers of the opponents, but confirmation that their powers would be returned in time for battle. Growling in frustration, Norrin stalks off by himself.

Deciding to leave the man to his foul mood, the rest moved into the massive house, determined to fully explore this place in the alotted time.

...

Finding his way into the massive kitchen, Iceman laughs at his luck, makes his way up to the sinks, which he then plugs up. Turning both hot and cold water in, he ice-slides off to explore the rest of the house, looking specifically for the bathroom...

The three warriors of the group, having developed something resembling mutual respect during their battles, combed through the house, looking for the best places to settle in and wait. As Bobby passed overhead, they decided it was prudent to make their way to the second floor.

The three soldiers having familiarized themselves with the surroundings, and Bobby having turned on every faucet or showerhead on the lower floor, the team settled into their respective waiting places to get some rest.

As the last few moments ticked away, Bobby's ice form melted into the veritable lake the lower floor had become. He was now just a little extra, if sentient, water moving through water.

 

[Khellendros]

Iceman, Death and Midnighter vs Faust, Quicksilver and Midnighter

As Quicksilver took point, searching for the enemies, massive walls of ice sprung up around Faust and Midnighter, slamming together. While Midnighter moved away in time, Faust was not so lucky. Still, no matter how fast he could dodge, the enemy Midnighter could not get away from all the water. Blades and spikes of ice erupted upwards, shredding his coat off and removing the arsenal contained within, as well as leaving him somewhat battered. Moving his attentions to Quicksilver, Bobby left an fresh, armed Midnighter to fight his abused and bereft counterpart.

Quicksilver, having moved deep into the house, suddenly found himself assaulted with the same crude constructs as Midnighter, but on a massive scale. Stories-tall (relatively, considering their size) walls of ice sprang up in fractions of a second before crashing down in an attempt to crush him. The water he sprinted across instantly became a mat of razor edges, which he narrowly managed to leap over. It occurred to the mutant that he was being herded somewhere, but while he had the greater speed, his opponent could change the very landscape around him in a split second, and was nowhere to be found.

Eventually, worn down by relentless ice attacks, he was ripe for Death, teleporting in from a hidden vantage, blasting him from behind with a column of destructive energy from that wicked sword of his.

Cable vs Superman
Cable barely had time to think "Oh, ****" and begin raising a shield before a super-powered fist slammed through the fractionally formed shield and into his sternum with a sickening crunch. Crashing into the wall, Cable took the opportunity to raise his shield while Chris scanned his body and discovered his rapid healing. Again, the Kryptonian streaked in, but was met with an outgoing wall of crushing force. Gripping the durable form in an invisible forcefield, he shouted in pain as energy lanced through a shield configured only for physical attacks, badly charring his face. Responding in kind, he applied titanic pressure to the man's eyeballs. Enough to turn steel ball bearings into glowing hot sludge, the pressure merely left the man screaming in agony.

Still, even as he diverted energy from his personal shield to the hold on the Kryptonian, it was obvious the thrashing man would break free any moment. Upping the pressure on his eyes as much as possible, Cable focused his power down onto the cellular level. Reaching into the near-invulnerable body, he wrenched each and every individual cell in his spinal cord a fraction of a millimeter away from the rest. Dropping the immobile, but still possibly living body to the floor, Cable vanished in a flare of telekinetic energy, tracking the mind of his rage-prone scientist ally.

Surfer vs Spartan
The instant the fight had started, things had gone wrong for Norrin. Even as he rose into the air to seek his prey, a fist slammed into the back of his silver skull, and an instant later the scenery all around him changed. Shouting in rage, he unleashed an omni-directional blast of withering energy, but too late. Casting his senses far, he found his opponent just as the world warped, and for the briefest of moments he was facing a man in a silver business suit and the fist that was streaking towards his face.

Teleported away again, Norrin streaked towards his target, through walls and all, flying unerringly until he suddenly leapt forward, a fraction of an inch away from his enemy's outstretched arm and the ensuing clothesline. Crashing to the floor, he gestured at his board even as he vanished again. The board, left behind, followed its master's unerring senses, streaking for the man's back, until he vanished as well. Cursing in several alien languages, Norrin called the board to his side even as his senses registered a quantum fluctuation from behind. The confirming blast of energy across his shoulders told him exactly what he needed to know.

Surfer and Cable vs Spartan
At the arrival of his psychic ally, Surfer screamed at him to link their minds. Doing so, Cable immediately gathered what the Herald's plan was, and agreed. As Surfer registered the quantum fluctuation again, both unleashed their powers in all directions even as they passed through the warp and appeared before the android. Cosmic energy and crushing psychic force slammed into Spartan in near-simultaneous waves. Spartan, damaged but not destroyed, sent them to the opposite end of the house. Warping space telekinetically, Cable dragged himself and the Surfer back, unleashing destructive blasts of power even as they vanished and reappeared.

Damaged further, Spartan retreated this time, but Cable, using Surfer's senses, gave chase. Allowing Cable to keep them both aloft, Norrin dispatched his razor-edge board after the fleeing android.

Eventually, it was simply a matter of numbers. Spartan had the mobility, but there was nowhere he could go that Norrin could not follow. Harried by three imminent threats, it was only a matter of time before he found himself in a situation he could not escape from, and was brought low.

Winnar: The Immortals

Notes:

Okay, once again Ari has the speed advantage. Still, in the Uber battle, my guys are just tougher. And, the lovely thing about a psychic with Deadpool's healing factor is that he can take a lot of what his opponent can dish out and a telekinetic attack is invisible, making it hard to dodge. And, no matter what he and Tim say, Cable IS able to operate mentally at near-light if not full light speed. Spartan, meanwhile, can **** with Norrin's day, but lacks the ability to get the quick KO.

Also, for Cable attacking on the cellular level, he was manipulating the flesh of some teenagers, drawing a disease out of them, as well as manipulating the white cells of an every AIDS sufferer in Africa. He also prove able to manipulate/redirect energy as well, so working on a small scale is within his abilities.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Setup

Doom establishes order by spliting the house up into three groups. Doomland, The Gravitron, and Translyvannia 6-5000. Each champion digs in and gets ready for the battle ahead. Ultron remains at Dooms side and Reed sets up sonic devices jury rigged from the unstable molecules in his costume. Once his work is done he remains by Doom's side as well. This Reed is broken by the death of Sue so he will do whatever Doom tells him too. He has promised him that he will kill Annihilus and bring back Sue. Reed will also help Doom to come up with ways to protect them telepathically. Dracula will also conjure some talismans to help with the magic and mind control.

Dracula will setup in the Barbie Dream House. Keeping light out of the picture. They will also stall the event as long as they can if it is daylight. If not... all the better.

Ultron will also keep an eye on the tech so as no interference can override it via Doom 2099.
Graviton will be waiting in the middle of the room.


Battle

Thor vs Graviton

Graviton should have no trouble with Thor.

Mr. Fantastic vs X-Man


With his technology and the talisman acquired from Dracula, Reed should be able to take out X-Man with his elasticity and gadgets. He need not fear his telekinesis and any duplicates shouldn't fool Mr. Fantastic for long. He also plans to use the sonic emitters he's placed strategically around the house to effect X-Man's and anyone else's inner ear. This is a tactic he's used on the Hulk and been successful. Either way he need only balk X-Man long enough for someone to defeat their opponent and help him. Or he might finish early. If so he'll help..

Ultron vs. Nemesis

This version of Ultron is a pure killing machine. Disentegrators should have no trouble taking out this fighter. If not the hypnosis trick might work. Ultron's infrared scanners should help him find the stealth suit. He used infrared several times, most notably against the Invisible Woman.

Dracula vs. Patriarch

Match made in Hell. Dracula's mist form should help him avoid any teleportations. Hopefully Reed is done by now and can help him out. Tech should also be able to balk his teleportations, but if not Dracula can handle him.

Doom vs. Doom 2099

Doom will take out his counterpart with ease and uber magic. No failed experiment can handle the real Doom. 2099's tech can't handle Doom's magic. If he has too he'll turn off the tech in a single room and face him without gadgets. His anti tech magic was used in Unthinkable. It might be harder without the Hazareth Demons help but he should be able to do it with the new power he's gotten via Morgan Le Fey.

If any of these matchup's are "unfair" because of class strength, just remember that I sent a regular after an Uber. If this tactic is against the rules then just match them up according to their strength and the same results will happen.

Victory Yancy Street Gang

 

[Aristotle]

This space for a much better musical than RENT.

 

[Aristotle]

Prep Time
The Authorititans probably have something witty to say about the battleground, but they say it under their breath, so it doesn't get put in the writeup.

These are two dangerous squads, matched up roughly evenly in power scale. What's needed is a big-time balance-tipper. Typically, that kind of superweapon comes from a squad's ubers, but whatever advantages will be generated by Silver Surfer and Cable, Superman-16 and Spartan can step to, and can generate some offense of their own. Likewise, Superman-16 and Spartan don't have a huge immediate advantage on their opponents. This is destined to be a slugfest.

But the Authorititans boast some fine strategic minds. Midnighter, of course, takes the lead as field commander, but Spartan and Superman-16 also have quite a bit to contribute strategically, and Sebastian Faust is a veteran of multiple superteams, a couple military campaigns, and even a minor working relationship with the new Checkmate, and has a lot of insight to provide as well.

In fact, Faust is the gamebreaker. His first move is to magically secure the team's minds against telepathic invasion or attack. His second move is to magically scrye for information. While he doesn't get anything overly specific, he is able to gather broad-strokes information about the enemy's movements.

Next, Faust takes body samples from each team member. Then, he leaves the strategy session for good, promising to return by battle time. He blankets every surface of the house with magical traps and safeguards, and sets up a number of them in the air. These traps are keyed to trigger their effects against anything that steps onto them except the five members of the team (these exceptions being keyed to the body samples Faust took.) He then creates a series of teleportals all over the house, strategically placed and keyed to trigger only for the team members and to give off a magical, visible aura only to the team members (again, using the body samples.)

Faust's traps do a variety of things: most of them either burn your soul, degenerate your flesh, or blast you with magical beams. Some do all three. All of them teleport you into another magical trap if you haven't exited the trap by the time it's fully sprung.

It's an exhausting job, and Faust knows that he'll be weakened for the coming fight. But he's got a trick up his sleeve...

 

[Aristotle]

Battle Time, Part 1

First things first, a point of order: The Authorititans have the speed advantage in this fight. In the uber fights, Cable doesn't have superspeed, and Silver Surfer has non-combat superspeed that is, for all intents and purposes, completely useless in such close quarters as these. Contrast that with Spartan/Void, who can teleport himself so fast between points that he can mimic superspeed, and Superman-16, who has Kryptonian superspeed.

Neither team has a superfast med. But in the regs, the speed advantage again tips to the Authorititans, with Quicksilver and Midnighter against Wolverine and Midnighter.

What does this mean? It means that the Authorititans dictate matchups. Khel will almost certainly write different matchups to play to his team's strengths and mine's weaknesses, but his team simply doesn't have that luxury.

Spartan/Void vs. Silver Surfer
The Authorititan ubers immediately break for their opponents together. The goal here has to be to split up the Immortal's heavies, in order to fracture whatever plans they might have. Spartan teleports at blinding speeds around the house until he's at arm's length from Surfer. He grabs the herald of Galactus and teleports to the floor at the other end of the house, right into one of Faust's traps. Surfer's surfboard goes flying as his flesh and soul are seared by magical fire and energy blasts.

That's a pretty solid early advantage for Spartan, but it isn't the end of the fight. Surfer gets himself back up in the air on his board. He's at a disadvantage, though. He's been hammered hard by several of Faust's magical traps, and the bottom line is, Spartan can think and react at the speeds at which he moves, while Surfer is stuck fighting in normal-speed. On top of this, Spartan can go invisible, which he does. While his superstrength and energy blasts may not be as powerful as Surfer's, that doesn't matter when he's able to completely outstrip Surfer on speed, reaction time, and everything that counts in one-on-one combat. The Surfer's speed only works for traveling, and is completely useless in close-quarters combat.

Finally, even if none of that KO's Surfer (which it does), they entire house is covered in magical traps thanks to Faust. Spartan can just keep knocking Surfer into trap after trap after trap, and eventually, it'll take too much of a toll.

Superman-16 vs. Cable
It shouldn't be overlooked that Cable is at the height of his powers in this incarnation. He's got, as Khel notes in the description, "extremely powerful" psionic skills. But Superman-16 is also extremely powerful, having evolved to the height of Kryptonian powers, both spiritually and physically. Cable's powers, essentially, are built to fail against the super-spirituality of Superman-16.

For one thing, Cable has no superspeed. Superman-16, on the other hand, moves at Kryptonian superspeeds. Secondly, Cable has extremely powerful telekinesis, but Superman-16's quantum/spiritual telekinesis trumps that by taking apart the very physics that Cable is manipulating. Cable's telepathy has no chance against Superman-16's heavily spiritually guarded psyche, to say nothing of the magical safeguards placed on Superman-16's mind by Faust. On top of this, Superman-16 has flight and heat vision. Every advantage Cable could open up on most opponents, Superman-16 is almost specifically built to outstrip, and has a few unanswered advantages of his own.

 

[Aristotle]

Battle Time, Part 2
Quicksilver and Sebastian Faust vs. Death
Death has a lot of advantages, but Quicksilver rocks superspeed. It wouldn't be an easy fight, but Quicksilver could probably take Death by himself. However, there isn't time for that kind of lengthy, drawn-out fight, and Sebastian Faust is in dire need of mana refueling. So Quicksilver, instead of focusing on defeating Death, focuses on maneuvering his opponent into a teleportal. That shouldn't be hard, because Death doesn't expect the teleportals, and is plenty distracted by the abundance of painful, harrowing traps covering the house.

So it's easy for Quicksilver to manipulate Death into the right area. Then he tackles Death at superspeed and takes him straight into a portal that leads back to the team's home base location, where Faust is waiting with open arms to devour Death's soul and absorb his powers, and most importantly, to recharge his mana. Half of Death's powers are equipment based, so they don't transfer, and since they're mutations, you could argue that the other half probably don't transfer either, but the point is, Death's out of the picture, and Faust's mana is recharged.

Sebastian Faust vs. Iceman
The traps are less thick in the air, and by staying high, Iceman can stay relatively dry. But it's only a matter of time until, teleporting across the house, Sebastian Faust finds him. Iceman does have certain advantages in being able to take high ground, but Faust has ranged attacks that neutralize the advantage, and magical defenses that negate Iceman's ranged attack. At best, this is a slowly-losing stalemate for Iceman, and it might take awhile, but he can do nothing but lose this fight.

Midnighter vs. Midnighter
Midnighter on Midnighter: The fight you've all been waiting for. And, uh, what do you expect? It's a draw. They're perfectly matched for each other. It's the only time that Midnighter's computerized brain just can't possibly compute a winning outcome. That's why my Midnighter carefully maneuvers the fight into a predetermined spot. He takes a step back into a teleportal that puts him directly behind his opponent and slams his staff straight through his brain.

 

[Khellendros]

Okay, well, first of all, given your past ******** with Lady Flash, I'd love some proof of these badass traps, and whether he could actually cover as much space as you say he could with them. Because, I'm betting he did it once or twice, on a massively smaller scale. Am I close, or no?

 

[Aristotle]

Is this seriously going to be your argument from now on? God I hope you have something better than that.

1) Essentially they're just triggered rigs that use magical abilities he has displayed in the comics (see the run of Outsiders he was in.)
2) His traps and protections are so effective he was called in by Checkmate specifically to fortify their castle as part of their effort to make it impregnable. His traps and protections are on a level with the Castellan's technical expertise.
3) He didn't rig the entire house as one big trap. He covered it with a bunch of small ones. Which is very similar to what he did with Checkmate's Castle.

 

[Aristotle]

Iceman, Death and Midnighter vs Faust, Quicksilver and Midnighter

Let's just talk about this whole water and ice thing, because Khel writes himself as pretty dominant in the lower-level fights, and it's pretty much entirely down to the water and ice tricks. But the water and ice tricks are down to being able to use the kitchen of the house, which was never shown in the film. In keeping with the spirit of the rules of this game (you can only use what was on panel) and in keeping with what I thought was ruled in one of the other threads, that should disallow the kitchen.

But secondly, simply strategically, Khel's writeup also depends on my guys just running around aimlessly not defending themselves. Faust's just gonna sit there with no defenses? Quicksilver's not gonna have a goal in mind? Midnighter's not gonna have a goal in mind? Especially when you factor in the network of portals and traps that Faust has set up to help these guys win, the plan Khel writes up is (and I just mostly wanted to use this pun) all wet.

Oh, and when did Iceman turn into such a murderous f***?

Cable barely had time to think "Oh, ****" and begin raising a shield ...the pressure merely left the man screaming in agony.

You're completely misrepresenting Superman-16 as just another Superman. He isn't.

Still, even as he diverted energy from his personal shield to the hold on the Kryptonian, it was obvious the thrashing man would break free any moment. Upping the pressure on his eyes as much as possible, Cable focused his power down onto the cellular level. Reaching into the near-invulnerable body, he wrenched each and every individual cell in his spinal cord a fraction of a millimeter away from the rest. Dropping the immobile, but still possibly living body to the floor, Cable vanished in a flare of telekinetic energy, tracking the mind of his rage-prone scientist ally.

Against Superman-16, who by this point in the fight could easily have absorbed enough energy through his quantum telekinesis to go into his giant/energy-being form, this tactic doesn't work. Even if he doesn't go large, he's so much faster than Cable, and he's much stronger than Cable. This just plain doesn't work.

Eventually, it was simply a matter of numbers. Spartan had the mobility, but there was nowhere he could go that Norrin could not follow. Harried by three imminent threats, it was only a matter of time before he found himself in a situation he could not escape from, and was brought low.

And that's the point here. Khel's team doesn't have the speed, specifically reaction speed, to be able to dictate the match going this way. They have to win every other fight to be able to take on Spartan and win. And that, as we see from my writeup, just isn't going to happen. Even putting Spartan up against Surfer and Cable, there's questions in my mind about how easily they put him down. He's simply too fast for either of them. Add to this the fact that Faust's traps are everywhere to help Spartan win a fight, and Khel's strategy just can't pan out.

Still, in the Uber battle, my guys are just tougher.

Not substantially. Superman-16 is certainly no less durable, strong, and offensively dangerous than Cable, and could be more so. And whatever Spartan lacks in durability and raw power against Silver Surfer, he more than makes up for in the ability to do it faster and by constant surprise.

And, the lovely thing about a psychic with Deadpool's healing factor is that he can take a lot of what his opponent can dish out

Deadpool's healing factor has come mighty close to failure on several occasions. And although I haven't read all the Deadpool issues yet, I can't remember a time when it stood up to a Superman-16 onslaught.

and a telekinetic attack is invisible, making it hard to dodge.

No sweat for a quantum telekinetic.

And, no matter what he and Tim say, Cable IS able to operate mentally at near-light if not full light speed.

Not if you don't put superspeed in his short description he can't. I was just waiting for you to bust that out. Powers not enumerated in some way in the short description cannot be used in the match. We can discuss later whether or not Cable really is that fast, but you took away his power when you failed to list it.

 

[Khellendros]

Is this seriously going to be your argument from now on?

Umm, yes? At least this time. Didn't your parents ever teach you that when you lie you lose credibility in the future?

1) Essentially they're just triggered rigs that use magical abilities he has displayed in the comics (see the run of Outsiders he was in.)
2) His traps and protections are so effective he was called in by Checkmate specifically to fortify their castle as part of their effort to make it impregnable. His traps and protections are on a level with the Castellan's technical expertise.
3) He didn't rig the entire house as one big trap. He covered it with a bunch of small ones. Which is very similar to what he did with Checkmate's Castle.

Okay, this is all lovely. My question was twofold, though. First, if he could make them, second if he could cover all that area with that many traps in only a day. Did it say how long he spent equipping Checkmate with their traps? For all I know, it takes a day to make and build one.

And, speaking of building, you said "rigs". Does that mean there's a material component involved? I hope he carries that **** on him, because no way is he finding arcane tools and supplies in the freakin' Toy Story house.

 

[Khellendros]

Okay, I want you to tell me where you're getting this quantum telekinesis horse****. He never displayed that ability in Countdown Arena. And, I'm sorry, did you just claim Superman can rewrite the laws of physics? So he's a REALITY WARPER now, too? Jesus, Ari, are you ADDICTED to lying about what your characters can do in these things?

And then you're complaining about me assuming the house had a ****ing kitchen sink? Good lord.

 

[Aristotle]

Umm, yes? At least this time. Didn't your parents ever teach you that when you lie you lose credibility in the future?

I love how lazy you're getting. I interpret a powerset differently from you, and it makes me a liar, and therefore the only argument you ever have to make is "uh, no, he can't do that."

Did it say how long he spent equipping Checkmate with their traps? For all I know, it takes a day to make and build one.

No, it didn't. So I guess we just have to assume that setting up a passive-activation trap, under no pressure, featuring the spells it takes him mere moments to assemble in the heat of battle, won't take that long. There isn't evidence on how long it specifically takes him to set up these things, so we go with the evidence that exists on how long it takes him to cast the spell.

And, speaking of building, you said "rigs". Does that mean there's a material component involved?

No. Not anymore than an energy beam is a physical beam of wood. You're really grasping here, Khel.

Okay, I want you to tell me where you're getting this quantum telekinesis horse****.

By reading Countdown Arena. You find another way to describe the powerset he displays. You show me another name for it, and I'll show you a semantic argument. This guy is playing telekinetic games with energy beams and forcefields and energy absorption, doing the kinds of things with intangible forces that Cable can do with tangible forces.

He never displayed that ability in Countdown Arena.

You didn't read Countdown Arena.

And, I'm sorry, did you just claim Superman can rewrite the laws of physics? So he's a REALITY WARPER now, too?

He's not a reality warper, he's a quantum telekinetic.

 

[DTL Commish]

Voting may now begin.

 

[Khellendros]

I love how lazy you're getting. I interpret a powerset differently from you, and it makes me a liar, and therefore the only argument you ever have to make is "uh, no, he can't do that."

Please. From a single panel, you get lightning, mutliple-city-block-covering speed drain, and massive lightning bolts. That's not just a mistake of interpretation.

No, it didn't. So I guess we just have to assume that setting up a passive-activation trap, under no pressure, featuring the spells it takes him mere moments to assemble in the heat of battle, won't take that long. There isn't evidence on how long it specifically takes him to set up these things, so we go with the evidence that exists on how long it takes him to cast the spell.

Well, at least you admit you can't prove he can do what you said he can. That's very honest of you.

No. Not anymore than an energy beam is a physical beam of wood. You're really grasping here, Khel.

Okay, and what was emitting the energy beam? Was it a symbol on a wall, a talisman, what?

By reading Countdown Arena. You find another way to describe the powerset he displays. You show me another name for it, and I'll show you a semantic argument. This guy is playing telekinetic games with energy beams and forcefields and energy absorption, doing the kinds of things with intangible forces that Cable can do with tangible forces.

He grabbed their heatvision with his hands, and was able to change his body so that it absorbed a different kind of radiation. The point was he could do far better than they could with the Kryptonian powerset.

He's not a reality warper, he's a quantum telekinetic.

Changing the laws of physics at will? As in, not just ignoring/defying them like speedsters and FTL fliers do, but actually changing them? Sounds like reality warping to me.

 

[Aristotle]

Please. From a single panel, you get lightning, mutliple-city-block-covering speed drain, and massive lightning bolts. That's not just a mistake of interpretation.

No, I got a very focused speed drain and lightning, both of which were shown on panel. Are you done arguing last week's battle?

Well, at least you admit you can't prove he can do what you said he can. That's very honest of you.

I proved that he can set up traps. I proved that he cast the spells. I proved that he cast the spells in moments. What, exactly, haven't I proven?

He grabbed their heatvision with his hands, and was able to change his body so that it absorbed a different kind of radiation. The point was he could do far better than they could with the Kryptonian powerset.

He made the radiation a physical, graspable object. He became an energy being. He increased his size. And yes, he altered his body and grabbed heat vision beams. All of these are the hallmarks of quantum telekinesis.

Changing the laws of physics at will? As in, not just ignoring/defying them like speedsters and FTL fliers do, but actually changing them? Sounds like reality warping to me.

This is the problem with you. I use colorful language and you take it all literal. Quantum telekinesis means playing with physics, but it isn't reality warping on anywhere near the scale as a Baron Zemo or Proteus. It's just a deeper level of telekinesis, one which does with the intangible what regular telekinesis does with the tangible, and trumps regular telekinesis.

 

[Khellendros]

No, I got a very focused speed drain and lightning, both of which were shown on panel.

Wow. Now you're lying about last week's arguments? You flat out said you'd knock Engineer out with an EMP.

I proved that he can set up traps. I proved that he cast the spells. I proved that he cast the spells in moments. What, exactly, haven't I proven?

What the ****? Do you not understand what the word "prove" MEANS? The only example of these traps you've pointed to is the Checkmate instance, which didn't actually show him setting it up. You making suspect claims repeatedly isn't proof.

And don't think I didn't notice how you ignored my further question about the construction of the spell trap. Your silence is telling.

made the radiation a physical, graspable object.

Yes, he grabbed kryptonian heatvision. You have no proof he could do the same with any other forms of energy.

He became an energy being.

WRONG. He was super-charged with energy and glowing, but he was still flesh and blood, as seen by the crispy corpse he left behind.

And yes, he altered his body and grabbed heat vision beams. All of these are the hallmarks of quantum telekinesis.

Oh, quit that ********. Quantum telekinesis, the few panels it's been used on, have never been used in any of those ways before. You're taking unrelated powers, mashing them under the same name, and then extrapolating other uses from this power you've made up. So ****ing dishonest.

This is the problem with you. I use colorful language and you take it all literal. Quantum telekinesis means playing with physics, but it isn't reality warping on anywhere near the scale as a Baron Zemo or Proteus. It's just a deeper level of telekinesis, one which does with the intangible what regular telekinesis does with the tangible, and trumps regular telekinesis.

Seriously, you're sitting here making up definitions for a power that's only been a few times on panel, are you out of your MIND?

 

[Aristotle]

What the ****? Do you not understand what the word "prove" MEANS? The only example of these traps you've pointed to is the Checkmate instance, which didn't actually show him setting it up. You making suspect claims repeatedly isn't proof.

But he did set them up. They didn't just pretend that he set them up. He really set them up. That's proof.

And don't think I didn't notice how you ignored my further question about the construction of the spell trap. Your silence is telling.

Which one? The one about length of time? I didn't ignore it. There's no evidence regarding how long it takes, so we assume it takes no longer than the casting of the spells themselves. Or the question about whether he needed physical materials? Because the answer to that question was no. And I answered it.

Yes, he grabbed kryptonian heatvision. You have no proof he could do the same with any other forms of energy.

Read it again. He did the same with the harmful radiation. He literally pulled it into him with his hands, and made it a physical, black substance.

WRONG. He was super-charged with energy and glowing, but he was still flesh and blood, as seen by the crispy corpse he left behind.

So he converted back to a physical being.

Oh, quit that ********. Quantum telekinesis, the few panels it's been used on, have never been used in any of those ways before. You're taking unrelated powers, mashing them under the same name, and then extrapolating other uses from this power you've made up. So ****ing dishonest.

Quantum telekinesis has been used for at least a few issues of Resurrection Man. And it's been used in quite similar ways. The ways Superman-16 used his powers imply quantum telekinesis. Can you find another way to describe physically grasping intangible things like energy beams and radiation. Or another way to describe transforming radiation into a physical, black substance? What was it, magic? Superstrength?

 

[Aristotle]

I would also like to call attention to a disturbing new strategy of Khel's: When a character is admitted to the League that he has concerns about, he doesn't air them. He waits until the match. He didn't voice any concerns about the admittance of Lady Flash. He didn't voice any concerns about Superman-16 having quantum telekinesis.

At the point where an owner fails to voice concerns about what powers a character does or does not have in the allotted time for discussion about them, it seems that they forfeit the right to question those powers. This game is not supposed to be about whether one side of the match believes that the other sides is using the correct powers. It should be about strategy. Khel, however, doesn't seem confident enough in his ability to strategize. Notice that he doesn't discuss his own strategy at all in recent posts. He barely even discusses mine! He instead focuses on last week's match, on the question of whether or not Superman-16 really has the powerset that he has, and on questions that have already been satisfactorily answered about Sebastian Faust's traps.

These are desperation tactics, the DTL equivalent of picking Sarah Palin and talking about Bill Ayers. But unlike John McCain, Khel shouldn't need tactics like these. Instead, that's all he's choosing to resort to.

 

[Khellendros]

Wait, so now you WANT me to whine and cry about other people's rosters too? Why should I? If you're gonna put yourself in the position of making such objectionable claims, why the hell shouldn't I capitalize on them at a more opportune time? If I just ***** about them when you draft them, you'll just keep doing it. If I cause you to lose because of a ****ty pick, prove trying to sneak these characters in has actual consequences, that's how you'll learn your lesson.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

*grabs a bag of popcorn*

 

[Aristotle]

I'm not sneaking s***. Superman-16 is featured in all four issues of Countdown Arena. Anybody can go read them and see that I'm right. If you want to argue about Lady Flash, go back to last week.

 

[Aristotle]

*grabs a bag of popcorn*

None of that. Vote or die.

 

[XFanTim]

Corp doesn't seem to be planning to do a writeup, so I'll vote for Yancy Street Gang. However, I do have a few criticisms of Franklin's writeup.

First, you really can't have your uber (Doom) attack the opposing medium (Doom 2099), unless you've first dispatched all the opposing ubers. The fact that you sent a reg against an opposing uber doesn't get you out of that rule. However, there are a few ways around it. One is you could argue that Doom just avoids Doom 2099 until he's allowed to attack him (that is, until Thor and X-Man are finished off). Of course, that means Doom 2099 could use that time to attack your other characters (in particular, I think his technopathy could be a threat to Ultron). The other alternative is you argue that Doom 2099 could be goaded into attacking Doom, in which case of course Doom could strike back. Given Doom's notorious arrogance, it's not inconceivable that Doom 2099 could be goaded into trying to prove that he's the superior Doom.

The other thing is I'm a little skeptical of is the way you beat X-Man. First, has Dracula ever been shown to have amulets capable of blocking X-Man level telepathy? If not, I don't think you can just assume it. In earlier seasons we were pretty permissive about letting people find ways to give their characters psi-shields, but last season we decided to be stricter about requiring it to actually have been shown in the comics, and that change still holds. One of the advantages of the "ubers can't attack regs/meds" rule is that you don't have to worry about shielding your lower levels from telepathy (except in cases like this where you're sending them after an uber telepath). So it's no longer necessary for us to be overly permissive about psi-shields just to keep the telepath's from instantly wiping out the regs.

I do like the idea of using sonics to disrupt the telepath's ability to concentrate, all though I'm not sure X-Man would go down before his teammates found a way to destroy the sonic emitters (say, a massive electrical surge from Thor).

Anyway, you get my vote, but I figured I'd give those comments for you to consider in future battles, especially since most of my objections related to rules changes and such.

I'll edit in the other vote in a bit.