Duncan Jones' Warcraft

[vinsanity]

I do wonder why Jackson decided to go CGI in the Hobbit after using mostly practical effects in LOTR?

Like i posted in the Hobbit thread a couple days ago

I'm listening to the audio commentary and when PJ is talking during the battle of azanulbizar, he says that he's glad that he could do the orcs CGI, and he was frustrated that he couldn't do it in the LOTR movies, because he thinks the orcs shouldn't have human proportions in their faces and their bodies.

In the appendices of AUJ, he first went with prosthestics goblins but because the actors were sweating hard with the suits because of the lights in the set, he decided the actors or extras would wear mocap suits and then going all digital in post-production.

Also because of the 3D they couldn't use the bigatures, and in the commentary PJ was sad that he couldn't use it, but said the bigatures are still intact and probably will put them in a museum or something, because there are really works of art.

 

[superkong 500]

I just watched the blizzcon video and sadly the orcs will be cgi. Yes they will be played by actors but in mo-cap suits, ILM will do the cgi and they will do on location mo-cap. I wanted the orcs to be prosthetics I guess we'll never see orcs played by actors in make-up again...

 

[Octoberist]

I just watched the blizzcon video and sadly the orcs will be cgi. Yes they will be played by actors but in mo-cap suits, ILM will do the cgi and they will do on location mo-cap. I wanted the orcs to be prosthetics I guess we'll never see orcs played by actors in make-up again...

Haha, unless it's another movie in a different franchise in the future. Things never die in Hollywood. It's not like World War Z signaled the end of zombies in make-up either.

Yes, it's a shame though it depends on what they want to do with the orcs. If they want to achieve the look of the games with the small heads and huge bodies, this maybe the way to go.

Also, they have ILM, specially the team behind the Avengers, AND the very man who won an Oscar for Life of Pi so it won't be too bad.

 

[Octoberist]

Like i posted in the Hobbit thread a couple days ago


In the appendices of AUJ, he first went with prosthestics goblins but because the actors were sweating hard with the suits because of the lights in the set, he decided the actors or extras would wear mocap suits and then going all digital in post-production.

Also because of the 3D they couldn't use the bigatures, and in the commentary PJ was sad that he couldn't use it, but said the bigatures are still intact and probably will put them in a museum or something, because there are really works of art.

I kinda sympathize with Jackson but also I don't. Sometimes with your art, you gotta bleed and perhaps the Hobbit would've been less 'digital' if were up to Del Toro or someone else.

So without the bigatures and Orcs in make-up, you have a 'better' shoot but you're also sacrificing the final product's aesthetics for your convenience. BUT I'm not a cruel man; Jackson has went through a lot. But then you get the Lucas effect after the fact.

 

[Marvolo]

I just watched the blizzcon video and sadly the orcs will be cgi. Yes they will be played by actors but in mo-cap suits, ILM will do the cgi and they will do on location mo-cap. I wanted the orcs to be prosthetics I guess we'll never see orcs played by actors in make-up again...

Look at that orc talking to Thranduil in the 3 minute preview. There is nothing sad or inferior about that. Imo its one of the best looking orcs in all the films and its head is completely cgi.

 

[dark_b]

I know why. Because he went through hell fiming LOTR that he decided a more focused use of CG and greenscreen is a lot easier to do this time around. I don't blame him but it does affect the look of the Hobbit which looks very digital. Too much clarity.

District 9 and Elysium looked gritty. its a stylistic choice that the cgi looks clean in Hobbit. WETA could make the cgi look like the LOTR movies. and we all know this.

 

[vinsanity]

Look at that orc talking to Thranduil in the 3 minute preview. There is nothing sad or inferior about that. Imo its one of the best looking orcs in all the films and its head is completely cgi.

I'm not so sure that's CGI, it looks more make-up to me, but it looks great thou.

 

[Octoberist]

Look at that orc talking to Thranduil in the 3 minute preview. There is nothing sad or inferior about that. Imo its one of the best looking orcs in all the films and its head is completely cgi.

Seriously? In that 10 second clip, you've determined it's one of the best?

He looks fine but you barely see the details of his face.

 

[vinsanity]

From this screencap it's difficult to tell, but i still think is more prosthestic than CGI, i don't know, it looks to perfect as a CGI, at least to me.

Spoiler

anyway, sorry for going off-topic with this :P

 

[Octoberist]

He looks fine but it's not like 'OMG he's like one of the best looking orcs in the series either like what Marvolo said unless he's just talking about THE HOBBIT and not 'Lord of the Rings. He looks fine; but a typical orc.

 

[Marvolo]

Seriously? In that 10 second clip, you've determined it's one of the best?

He looks fine but you barely see the details of his face.

The details and mechanics on his face look pretty damn good on my 54".

 

[Octoberist]

He looks fine but that's it.

Are you talking about the design itself, or the technical marvel of the CG work?

 

[superkong 500]

Look at that orc talking to Thranduil in the 3 minute preview. There is nothing sad or inferior about that. Imo its one of the best looking orcs in all the films and its head is completely cgi.

Sure, but first I'm not sure is completely cgi I think its cg enhanced the eyes are cg though. Second that's the only orc in the hobbit films so far that actually looks good, the others look really cartoony.(azog and his pals) In the rest of the preview the orcs that tauriel (for example) is fighting look rubbery and cartoony. Compare one cool looking orc from the hobbit(so far) to lots of great looking ones from LOTR all done with prosthetics.

 

[Victarion]

The cool looking orc might not even show up in the trilogy. But that one from the trailer looks good. The eyes look inhuman.

 

[Octoberist]

You mean that one cool looking Orc with the orange beard who could get replaced by a CGI character right? What a shame and waste of money.

 

[Victarion]

Well, back to Warcraft. I read one of the tie in novels by a guy named Richard Knaak; and there was a gathering of dragon mages who seemed to be sort of like the guardians of Azeroth. Have dragons always been the movers and shakers of Azeroth?

 

[Marvolo]

He looks fine but that's it.

Are you talking about the design itself, or the technical marvel of the CG work?

I'm talking the design and the cgi. It looks great there. I know people have this rosy nostalgic view for prosthetics and the techniques of yore but the truth is there are some bad to terrible prosthetics just like there is bad cgi. The difference is that cgi can and does have more potential than prosthetics whether people want to accept that or not. When the cgi works and looks great its leagues ahead of rubber prosthetics. CGI is here to stay. We can ***** and moan and worry about it with every movie that comes down the pipe or we can save our energy and just enjoy the movie. Warcraft will use cgi creatures. Its inevitable. Better to accept that now than have some delusion that they will use thousands of prosthetics like Jackson did 13 years ago.

 

[redhawk23]

I'm talking the design and the cgi. It looks great there. I know people have this rosy nostalgic view for prosthetics and the techniques of yore but the truth is there are some bad to terrible prosthetics just like there is bad cgi. The difference is that cgi can and does have more potential than prosthetics whether people want to accept that or not. When the cgi works and looks great its leagues ahead of rubber prosthetics. CGI is here to stay. We can ***** and moan and worry about it with every movie that comes down the pipe or we can save our energy and just enjoy the movie. Warcraft will use cgi creatures. Its inevitable. Better to accept that now than have some delusion that they will use thousands of prosthetics like Jackson did 13 years ago.

But why is it inevitable? Quite often, cgi actually isn't any cheaper. More often than not an over reliance on cgi has been to a films detriment. People aren't arguing for no cgi, they just wish that some restraint could be employed and the cgi would be used properly. There's a reason why Jurassic Park holds up so much better than a lot of the films released since. There's a reason why the Hobbit films will end up as mere footnotes to the LotR films.

And what if rushed effects end up detrimental to our enjoyment of any given film? Should we just shut up and hand them our money with no comment?

 

[Octoberist]

We're steering the thread into the wrong direction. Agree to disagree.

Spoiler

I don't care so much about if it's CGI or make-up, but I'm just confused why you're praising the design of this one Orc so much. It's not bad, mind you but it looks like a generic orc (which is not a bad thing). I mean Jackson always had great designs but I don't see how this one dude looks any better than of the other orcs we've seen. Or how this dude sticks out the most in your mind.

But I digress, I don't want to poo-poo on your taste. I just don't get it. hmmmm. So I'll turn in my 'AGREE TO DISAGREE SO WE DONT' HAVE ENDLESS DEBATES' Card.

 

[Octoberist]

But why is it inevitable? Quite often, cgi actually isn't any cheaper. More often than not an over reliance on cgi has been to a films detriment. People aren't arguing for no cgi, they just wish that some restraint could be employed and the cgi would be used properly. There's a reason why Jurassic Park holds up so much better than a lot of the films released since. There's a reason why the Hobbit films will end up as mere footnotes to the LotR films.

And what if rushed effects end up detrimental to our enjoyment of any given film? Should we just shut up and hand them our money with no comment?

Well it kinda reminds me of the debate with digital cameras like the Red Epic, Alexa Arri. Im a person who values both film and digital and yes, digital is here to stay. But now there's digital cameras that can go up to 6K which is lame. What's the point? From the footage I've seen of 6K cameras, they make everything look fake and flat looking.

Extra clarity doesn't equal beauty.

Early adopters and tech heads will argue otherwise, but the reality is that 6k will make things look even more fake because now you can see all of the fine detail. Not every form of technology should be embrace or should climate existing tech. Use what works be it new or old.

Building sets, using location shoots, using make-up isn't archaic. People still want to get their hands dirty. They want to create tangibility.

 

[X Knight]

I don't play World of Warcraft, so I'm not familiar with the lore/settings/characters.

but reading the wiki, I see that there's a "raven goddess" character named Aviana.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Aviana

she seems pretty cool and interesting.

do you think she would be an important/popular enough character to make it into the movie?

 

[superkong 500]

On another subject I wonder how close the orcs will look to the games, my only worry is that they end up looking like Hulk with fangs and long hair. Because a lot of the orcs in warcraft look like that, huge muscles, green skin and a face that resembles more an ogre than an orc (yes I'm aware that is the orc version of WOW but still) in my opinion. If they're fighting humans making them slightly shorter and less bulky would be better I think. also maybe they could make the faces slightly more orcish if that makes any sense.

 

[Marvolo]

We're steering the thread into the wrong direction. Agree to disagree.

Spoiler

I don't care so much about if it's CGI or make-up, but I'm just confused why you're praising the design of this one Orc so much. It's not bad, mind you but it looks like a generic orc (which is not a bad thing). I mean Jackson always had great designs but I don't see how this one dude looks any better than of the other orcs we've seen. Or how this dude sticks out the most in your mind.

But I digress, I don't want to poo-poo on your taste. I just don't get it. hmmmm. So I'll turn in my 'AGREE TO DISAGREE SO WE DONT' HAVE ENDLESS DEBATES' Card.

It sticks out beacuse the light displacement on the skin and pigmentation and mechanics of the face is damn good and goes beyond what prosthetics can achieve. Its a fine piece of cgi.

 

[Teelie]

I don't play World of Warcraft, so I'm not familiar with the lore/settings/characters.

but reading the wiki, I see that there's a "raven goddess" character named Aviana.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Aviana

she seems pretty cool and interesting.

do you think she would be an important/popular enough character to make it into the movie?

Not for a very long time if they do sequels but probably if they keep some of the storyline from Cataclysm.

 

[redhawk23]

Like i posted in the Hobbit thread a couple days ago


In the appendices of AUJ, he first went with prosthestics goblins but because the actors were sweating hard with the suits because of the lights in the set, he decided the actors or extras would wear mocap suits and then going all digital in post-production.

Also because of the 3D they couldn't use the bigatures, and in the commentary PJ was sad that he couldn't use it, but said the bigatures are still intact and probably will put them in a museum or something, because there are really works of art.

See Peter Jackson alsways talks about being frustrated by human proportions when it comes to prosthetics but then I find my mind wandering to the work of the other director he originally brought on to the Hobbit project.

The Faun is a particularly good example of the fact that you don't have to abandon practical effects when augmenting them digitally.