"Dungeons & Dragons" Cartoon (1983-1986) - Thoughts/Memories?

[Dread]

For those of you who don't own the box set, here's a link to the D&D fan film Choices that was included in the special features:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDsIToyQueo

Enjoy.

Here's a fan made trailer, done by the same people, of a live action movie based on the cartoon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWkFeEmO_i4

I probably liked the trailer more than "CHOICES", if only because it featured more characters (and the nice shadowy image of Venger). But both are quite well done.

As I've said, my copy of the box set was stolen (is NOTHING sacred anymore?), so I've only watched/listened to that episode once. So I'll have to take your word for that, because quite frankly I don't remember them saying anything that definitive.

She's been clean and sober for a while now (at least according to her reps). It's just no studio wants to risk having her fall off the wagon while they're filming, which is why she hasn't gotten any work for a while. If Someone were to produce this movie, I think she should be given a chance to redeem herself. I mean look at Robert Downey Jr. Besides acting ability, I tried to find actors who at least somewhat LOOK like the characters I want to cast them as. Look at each actor and then look at the picture of the character they're meant to portray next to them, and try to honestly tell me they weren't born to play that part.

It really does suck that your BCI box set was stolen. At the very least, you can read the script to REQUIEM for free any time here: http://www.michaelreaves.com/requiem_preface.htm

Michael Reaves wrote eight episodes of "DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS" (if produced, "Requiem" would have been his 9th on the show), and still is writing for a living. If a newer version of the show ever cropped up, it certainly would be a treat if he was hired to work on them, alongside some of the other writers such as Paul Dini and Jeffrey Scott. Maybe even Steve Gerber if he was willing!

Some great fan art there, although the bit with Venger & Diana is a bit...eww. But aside for that it's all good. I'm actually surprised how well the characters seem to work for a "manga" style. Of course, animation even in the 80's was often done overseas, so it all comes full circle.

The episode where Dungeon Master is trapped by the "ice sword" is episode 5, "IN SEARCH OF THE DUNGEON MASTER", where he is kidnapped by Warduke, who is the character with the sword. Naturally, that episode ends with it being very obvious that Dungeon Master is far more powerful than he seems and could send the kids home at any time, but has another purpose for them (which "Requiem" explains).

And of course that snap from the season 3 episode, "THE TIME LOST", which probably features the nicest German pilot from WWII ever. Venger's grand plan is to send back a Nazi pilot with a hi tech plane from "the future" (which for 1985 could have just meant the 1990's) to change the course of the war and cause the kids to never be born. Not everyone seems to like this episode, but I thought it was okay. It showed Venger's cruelty in wishing to destroy the timeline of "the real world" simply to get revenge on the kids and get their weapons, and several times he considers the second world war a "pathetic" or "insignificant". Unfortunately for Venger, he happens to zap a German pilot who was conscripted into service and wants nothing but the war to end. In fact, he was an awfully tolerant 1940's German as he seemed to like Diana more than the others! I mean, in the 1940's, even a lot of "true blue" Americans were racist. It wasn't one of my favorite episodes but I did think it was pretty good, and established that people from "the real world" could be zapped into "the Realm" at any point in history, and probably were.

You do have a point that Robert Downey Jr. (as well as Mickey Rourke) and other actors have been "down and out" and "untouchable" in Hollywood before. The old phrase, "He/she couldn't even get arrested in Hollywood" has been a cliche for ages. Eventually someone in the movie biz will take a chance on LiLo. Or she'll go on "DANCING WITH THE STARS" or "OPRAH" to build back a rep.

 

[Thundarr]

I probably liked the trailer more than "CHOICES", if only because it featured more characters (and the nice shadowy image of Venger). But both are quite well done.

Only thing I didn't like about the trailer was that all of the characters looked like they've been in The Realm for 5 to 10 years, except for Bobby who's still a little kid. They should've found some actual high school students to play the older characters.

It really does suck that your BCI box set was stolen. At the very least, you can read the script to REQUIEM for free any time here: http://www.michaelreaves.com/requiem_preface.htm

Thanks for the link.

Michael Reaves wrote eight episodes of "DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS" (if produced, "Requiem" would have been his 9th on the show), and still is writing for a living. If a newer version of the show ever cropped up, it certainly would be a treat if he was hired to work on them, alongside some of the other writers such as Paul Dini and Jeffrey Scott. Maybe even Steve Gerber if he was willing!

Unfortunately Steve Gerber passed away earlier this year, so unless he's going to be writing scripts with a ouija board he won't be collaborating on any future projects.

Some great fan art there, although the bit with Venger & Diana is a bit...eww. But aside for that it's all good. I'm actually surprised how well the characters seem to work for a "manga" style. Of course, animation even in the 80's was often done overseas, so it all comes full circle.

If they do a reboot, maybe they can do an Anime version (like Avatar: The Last Airbender or Robotech, not Pokemon or Sailor Moon). That might be cool.

The episode where Dungeon Master is trapped by the "ice sword" is episode 5, "IN SEARCH OF THE DUNGEON MASTER", where he is kidnapped by Warduke, who is the character with the sword. Naturally, that episode ends with it being very obvious that Dungeon Master is far more powerful than he seems and could send the kids home at any time, but has another purpose for them (which "Requiem" explains).

Warduke! That's his name! I knew it was something like that! Anyway, it was just a good example of how a character in the show could wield a sword without actually having to kill (or even cut) anyone.

And of course that snap from the season 3 episode, "THE TIME LOST", which probably features the nicest German pilot from WWII ever. Venger's grand plan is to send back a Nazi pilot with a hi tech plane from "the future" (which for 1985 could have just meant the 1990's) to change the course of the war and cause the kids to never be born. Not everyone seems to like this episode, but I thought it was okay. It showed Venger's cruelty in wishing to destroy the timeline of "the real world" simply to get revenge on the kids and get their weapons, and several times he considers the second world war a "pathetic" or "insignificant". Unfortunately for Venger, he happens to zap a German pilot who was conscripted into service and wants nothing but the war to end. In fact, he was an awfully tolerant 1940's German as he seemed to like Diana more than the others! I mean, in the 1940's, even a lot of "true blue" Americans were racist. It wasn't one of my favorite episodes but I did think it was pretty good, and established that people from "the real world" could be zapped into "the Realm" at any point in history, and probably were.

Well it is a fact that not all German soldiers believed in The Third Reich's philosophy. Many of them were just common soldiers or drafted civilians. So it's not so surprizing that one might be dragged into The Realm. What was surprising was that he spoke fluent English!

You do have a point that Robert Downey Jr. (as well as Mickey Rourke) and other actors have been "down and out" and "untouchable" in Hollywood before. The old phrase, "He/she couldn't even get arrested in Hollywood" has been a cliche for ages. Eventually someone in the movie biz will take a chance on LiLo. Or she'll go on "DANCING WITH THE STARS" or "OPRAH" to build back a rep.

I hope so. I kinda like her, and for her to be a washed up hasbeen so early in her career is a real shame, imho. Of course it's a Hell of her own creation, but I'm hoping she can start her own comeback without having to resort to going on The Surreal Life, Celebrity Rehab, or Celebrity Sex Therapy.

 

[kane9321]

god i loved this show soo much

 

[Thundarr]

god i loved this show soo much

Me too. I can vividly remember running around with a little toy bow pretending to be Hank, fighting an imaginary Venger and his imaginary orc army. My best friend at the time, Shane, used to grab his plastic baseball bat and pretend he was Bobby.

Nowadays they call that LARPing, but back then we just called it playing. Heck, we didn't even know about the D&D RPG at the time! If we did I'd probably got into playing it far earlier than I actually did (I didn't start playing D&D until I was about 14).

 

[Thundarr]

For those of you who would like to do a little D&D LARPing, Here are the costumes from some of the characters that are available online. Unfortunately I was unable to find costumes for Diana and Bobby, but they shouldn't be too difficult to make yourself.

 

[Thundarr]

There's an internet quiz you can take to find out which character from the D&D cartoon you would be. These are all the results I could find. For some reason I couldn't find the "You are Bobby" result anywhere. If you want to take the quiz yourself, it's at: http://tribeofone.blogspot.com/2004_05_01_archive.html.

 

[Dread]

Only thing I didn't like about the trailer was that all of the characters looked like they've been in The Realm for 5 to 10 years, except for Bobby who's still a little kid. They should've found some actual high school students to play the older characters.

Maybe those in the Realm age at odd rates; there were some human looking people who claimed to be hundreds of years old. But, yeah, likely just couldn't find anyone younger who was reliable or interested. Most people who recall the show have to be in their mid to late twenties, at least.

Thanks for the link.

Unfortunately Steve Gerber passed away earlier this year, so unless he's going to be writing scripts with a ouija board he won't be collaborating on any future projects.

No problem. I posted it in this topic before, but I saw no need to make you dig for it.

Gerber actually died in Feb. 2008, over two years ago. I just plum forgot. But, yeah, shame.

If they do a reboot, maybe they can do an Anime version (like Avatar: The Last Airbender or Robotech, not Pokemon or Sailor Moon). That might be cool.

Character design style is always relative and variable anyway. The original DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS had character designs who weren't too dissimilar from some anime in the 80's. But not all anime and manga have the same character designs; the characters of FIST OF THE NORTH STAR look nothing like those in ONE PIECE nor do they resemble the NARUTO cast, or so on. But I digress.

Besides, manga artists were originally inspired by Disney's house animation style, so it all comes full circle.

Warduke! That's his name! I knew it was something like that! Anyway, it was just a good example of how a character in the show could wield a sword without actually having to kill (or even cut) anyone.

Well it is a fact that not all German soldiers believed in The Third Reich's philosophy. Many of them were just common soldiers or drafted civilians. So it's not so surprizing that one might be dragged into The Realm. What was surprising was that he spoke fluent English!

Like I said, the kids lucked out that Venger zapped the nicest German pilot ever.

And yeah, ice sword is cool.

I hope so. I kinda like her, and for her to be a washed up hasbeen so early in her career is a real shame, imho. Of course it's a Hell of her own creation, but I'm hoping she can start her own comeback without having to resort to going on The Surreal Life, Celebrity Rehab, or Celebrity Sex Therapy.

Do not underestimate the power of an Oprah appearance. I mean...she only endorsed one man for President, and he got elected in a land slide. Coincidence?

Me too. I can vividly remember running around with a little toy bow pretending to be Hank, fighting an imaginary Venger and his imaginary orc army. My best friend at the time, Shane, used to grab his plastic baseball bat and pretend he was Bobby.

Nowadays they call that LARPing, but back then we just called it playing. Heck, we didn't even know about the D&D RPG at the time! If we did I'd probably got into playing it far earlier than I actually did (I didn't start playing D&D until I was about 14).

If "playing" like that is now called LARPing, then when I was a kid, I must have LARP'd Ninja Turtles all the time.

 

[mr. peasant]

If they do a reboot, maybe they can do an Anime version (like Avatar: The Last Airbender or Robotech, not Pokemon or Sailor Moon). That might be cool.

Speaking of a reboot, I think it'd be cool(er?) if they updated the story to reflect the 4th edition rules; and perhaps an overall greater faithfulness to the source material. Question is though, should the original characters be kept or should it feature a new cast of heroes in a new adventure?

 

[Thundarr]

Speaking of a reboot, I think it'd be cool(er?) if they updated the story to reflect the 4th edition rules; and perhaps an overall greater faithfulness to the source material. Question is though, should the original characters be kept or should it feature a new cast of heroes in a new adventure?

F**k no! 4th Edition sucks! If they're gonna do that, just call it what it is, World Of Warcraft: The Animated Series. Maybe have six kids who are playing WoW online get sucked into their computers (ala Tron) and have to try and find their way out of The Realm Of World Of Warcraft.

No, for "updating" the show for later editions just look to my casting suggestions for ideas. I changed Eric from a "Cavalier" to a "Paladin". I changed Diana from an "Acrobat" to an "Amazon". And I changed Sheila from a "Thief" to a "Rogue" (granted those are two different words for the same class, but still). I also changed Presto from a "Magician" to a "Wizard" (again, two words with essentially the same meaning, but you get the idea). That's about as much change as I'd like to see in a reboot. Lizards Of The Coast already ruined the game I love with that 4th Edition crap, I'll be damned if I'm gonna let them ruin my D&D cartoon too!

 

[Thundarr]

Double Post

 

[Thundarr]

Triple Post

 

[mr. peasant]

F**k no! 4th Edition sucks! If they're gonna do that, just call it what it is, World Of Warcraft: The Animated Series. Maybe have six kids who are playing WoW online get sucked into their computers (ala Tron) and have to try and find their way out of The Realm Of World Of Warcraft.

I get it that you don't like the idea but you don't have to triple post it.

I think 4th Edition gets a bad rep because it is vastly different from the predecessors and is obviously targeting new, younger players. However, a Mercedes Benz today looks nothing like one from thirty years ago; not only externally but internally. Progress marches on. Same goes with game mechanics. 4th Edition is a lot more streamlined and consistent in its approach to game rules. Where it seems to do poorer on is in atmosphere; which is in my opinion, really the DM's job to create. It provides all the tools for players to create an interesting world. Moreover, a lot of its shortcomings can be solved by applying Rule Zero; what the DM says, goes.

 

[Thundarr]

F**k no! 4th Edition sucks! If they're gonna do that, just call it what it is, World Of Warcraft: The Animated Series. Maybe have six kids who are playing WoW online get sucked into their computers (ala Tron) and have to try and find their way out of The Realm Of World Of Warcraft.

I get it that you don't like the idea but you don't have to triple post it.

My BlackBerry was acting up on me and not letting me post, so I clicked on "post reply" multiple times out of frustration. That's why the triple post.

I think 4th Edition gets a bad rep because it is vastly different from the predecessors and is obviously targeting new, younger players. However, a Mercedes Benz today looks nothing like one from thirty years ago; not only externally but internally. Progress marches on. Same goes with game mechanics. 4th Edition is a lot more streamlined and consistent in its approach to game rules. Where it seems to do poorer on is in atmosphere; which is in my opinion, really the DM's job to create. It provides all the tools for players to create an interesting world. Moreover, a lot of its shortcomings can be solved by applying Rule Zero; what the DM says, goes.

I didn't care for a lot of the changes that were made for 3rd Edition. The changes made in 4th Edition are even worse, at least 3rd Edition still somewhat resembled the original game. 4th Edition is D&D in name only. IMHO, D&D peeked with 2nd Edition, especially using the optional rules from the books Skills & Powers, Combat & Tactics, and Spells & Magic.

I have nothing against progress. It's just that progress should be gradual. Like basic D&D to 1st Edition AD&D, and 1st Edition to 2nd Edition. 3rd Edition changed several things to improve game play, which is fine, but they also made changes for the sake of making changes. 4th Edition, IMO, is just a big money grab by Lizards Of The Coast. And I don't think the timing of it coming out just after Gary Gygax's death is a coincidence.

 

[mr. peasant]

I didn't care for a lot of the changes that were made for 3rd Edition. The changes made in 4th Edition are even worse, at least 3rd Edition still somewhat resembled the original game. 4th Edition is D&D in name only. IMHO, D&D peeked with 2nd Edition, especially using the optional rules from the books Skills & Powers, Combat & Tactics, and Spells & Magic.

I have nothing against progress. It's just that progress should be gradual. Like basic D&D to 1st Edition AD&D, and 1st Edition to 2nd Edition. 3rd Edition changed several things to improve game play, which is fine, but they also made changes for the sake of making changes. 4th Edition, IMO, is just a big money grab by Lizards Of The Coast. And I don't think the timing of it coming out just after Gary Gygax's death is a coincidence.

However, with each update, D&D had become increasingly more complex, with case-specific rules and different uses of numbers for different mechanics (e.g. high hit points is good, high armour is bad), and so became more and more inaccessible to new players. 4th edition, I feel, brought about a reboot to reintroduce the game to a new generation and built to suit their tastes. After 30+ years, that's quite understandable since a lot of the original fans would have grown out of the game, and so its market would be getting smaller and smaller.

As for it being a money grab, everything produced by a commercial company is made primarily for the purpose of producing profit. As for it coming out after Gygax's death, I highly doubt it's anything more than a coincidence. You're reading too much into it. You make it sound like the producers are in a deliberate conspiracy to antagonise its fans as much as possible for the lulz; which is clearly not the case since that is a stupid business practice.

 

[Thundarr]

However, with each update, D&D had become increasingly more complex, with case-specific rules and different uses of numbers for different mechanics (e.g. high hit points is good, high armour is bad), and so became more and more inaccessible to new players. 4th edition, I feel, brought about a reboot to reintroduce the game to a new generation and built to suit their tastes. After 30+ years, that's quite understandable since a lot of the original fans would have grown out of the game, and so its market would be getting smaller and smaller.

True, to a certain extent. The rules did become somewhat more complex with some of the later editions, especially 2nd Edition. Some people found the THAC0 system difficult to learn, and so they changed it for 3rd Edition. That's one change I agreed with.

People found the old Saving Throw system confusing so they changed it for 3rd Edition. Another change I agreed with.

People found the Non Weapon Proficiency system clumsy and ineffective, so they adopted the Skill Point System for 3rd Edition. Personally I think it was unnecessary as the Character Point System from Skills & Powers had already fixed it, but I have no problems with it.

People missed the monk and barbarian classes from 1st Edition, so they were brought back in 3rd Edition. Unfortunately the Lizards Of The Coast screwed up the barbarian class, but at least they brought it back.

People didn't like that their characters would get a set number of Hit Points after a certain point (usually 9th level). So they changed it that players rolled their hitpoints for every level. Another change I agreed with.

Then they went overboard with their changes. They took away the warrior's extraordinary strength and extraordinary constitution. I didn't like that.

They introduced the feat system. I hated that.

They allowed all races to be all classes. I don't agree with that decision either.

They allowed rangers and druids to be of any alignment. Another decision I hate.

They changed the description of halflings to resemble the kender from the Dragon Lance novels rather than hobbits from LOTR. Another change I hate.

There are other examples I could name, but you get the point. But while 3rd Edition made some changes just for the sake of making changes, at its core it's still D&D. But 4th Edition? It's ALL changes for the sake of making changes, and none of it improves the game. And it came out so soon after the introduction of 3rd Edition that it is more than just "good business", but suckering all the D&D players to scrap their entire gaming collections to start over again from scratch. And because 3rd and 4th Editions are so dissimilar, you can't even use your 3rd Edition books for a 4th Edition game.

 

[Dread]

Wasn't there an 8 year gap between the 3rd Edition (circa 2000) and the 4th Edition (circa 2008)? Although I'm just going by Wikipedia.

I imagine Halflings couldn't look like LOTR Hobbits anymore after LOTR became a major Warner Brothers franchise, so they wanted to avoid a legal battle maybe. I mean up until 2000, LOTR was just a series of books, not a major movie franchise.

 

[Thundarr]

Wasn't there an 8 year gap between the 3rd Edition (circa 2000) and the 4th Edition (circa 2008)? Although I'm just going by Wikipedia.

Well, in 2002 I think it was they came out with D&D v3.5. Although that was mostly just fixing typoes that slipped past the editor and clarifying some rules that players found confusing. And now that I think about it, it was only about an 8 to 10 year gap between Basic D&D and 1st Edition AD&D (at the time simply referred to as AD&D). Then maybe 5 or 6 years to come out with 2nd Edition. However, the changes made from Basic to 1st, and 1st to 2nd, were gradual. You could use a Basic D&D magic item description in an AD&D game with few if any adjustments. A 1st Edition AD&D character can be used in a 2nd Edition game with few if any adjustments. 2nd Edition characters do not translate well to 3rd Edition, nor do 3rd Edition characters translate well to 4th Edition. And I can garantee you that when Lizards Of The Coast come out with 5th Edition in a couple of years, it won't even closely resemble 4th Edition and render all your 4th Edition material obsolete and unusable. THAT'S what makes 3rd, and especially 4th, Editions little more than shameless money grabs.

I imagine Halflings couldn't look like LOTR Hobbits anymore after LOTR became a major Warner Brothers franchise, so they wanted to avoid a legal battle maybe. I mean up until 2000, LOTR was just a series of books, not a major movie franchise.

I don't think WB had anything to do with it. When the game first came out in '74 it featured both hobbits and ents. The Tolkien estate cried foul, and threatened to sue Gary Gygax for copyright infringement. Gygax changed the names to halflings and treants, and everything was fine for about 30 years. If it were WB causing trouble, why are there no changes to the treants? No, Lizards Of The Coast just wanted D&D halflings to be the intillectual property of Lizards Of The Coast, so they changed the description to equal that of Kender, which TSR created for their Dragon Lance campaign setting.

 

[Dread]

Well, in 2002 I think it was they came out with D&D v3.5. Although that was mostly just fixing typoes that slipped past the editor and clarifying some rules that players found confusing. And now that I think about it, it was only about an 8 to 10 year gap between Basic D&D and 1st Edition AD&D (at the time simply referred to as AD&D). Then maybe 5 or 6 years to come out with 2nd Edition. However, the changes made from Basic to 1st, and 1st to 2nd, were gradual. You could use a Basic D&D magic item description in an AD&D game with few if any adjustments. A 1st Edition AD&D character can be used in a 2nd Edition game with few if any adjustments. 2nd Edition characters do not translate well to 3rd Edition, nor do 3rd Edition characters translate well to 4th Edition. And I can garantee you that when Lizards Of The Coast come out with 5th Edition in a couple of years, it won't even closely resemble 4th Edition and render all your 4th Edition material obsolete and unusable. THAT'S what makes 3rd, and especially 4th, Editions little more than shameless money grabs.

I don't think WB had anything to do with it. When the game first came out in '74 it featured both hobbits and ents. The Tolkien estate cried foul, and threatened to sue Gary Gygax for copyright infringement. Gygax changed the names to halflings and treants, and everything was fine for about 30 years. If it were WB causing trouble, why are there no changes to the treants? No, Lizards Of The Coast just wanted D&D halflings to be the intillectual property of Lizards Of The Coast, so they changed the description to equal that of Kender, which TSR created for their Dragon Lance campaign setting.

I see. Very interesting. I have to admit I haven't actually played any sort of D&D session since high school, and that would have been 1st or 2nd edition (I forget which my friend happened to have had). It does seem like a shameless money move to adapt the game entirely every few years to make prior volumes obsolete. I suppose the people who make the games would claim that D&D fans and gamers don't "have" to buy every new game edition if they're happy and comfortable with the guides/supplement editions they already have and have been gaming with for 2-8 years or whatever. But then again, fans will always want more updated stuff. It's a Catch-22 to be a fan sometimes. That said, I always wonder what the profits are for table top games now.

Still, that sort of "scorched earth" approach to new editions of guide books to table top RPG's is not exclusive to D&D. I've heard RIFTS and some of the later WHITEWOLF games do that as well.

 

[Thundarr]

I see. Very interesting. I have to admit I haven't actually played any sort of D&D session since high school, and that would have been 1st or 2nd edition (I forget which my friend happened to have had). It does seem like a shameless money move to adapt the game entirely every few years to make prior volumes obsolete. I suppose the people who make the games would claim that D&D fans and gamers don't "have" to buy every new game edition if they're happy and comfortable with the guides/supplement editions they already have and have been gaming with for 2-8 years or whatever. But then again, fans will always want more updated stuff. It's a Catch-22 to be a fan sometimes. That said, I always wonder what the profits are for table top games now.

Still, that sort of "scorched earth" approach to new editions of guide books to table top RPG's is not exclusive to D&D. I've heard RIFTS and some of the later WHITEWOLF games do that as well.

Well I've been playing D&D for so long my first character is written on papyrus, lol.

Yeah, I'd love to be able to buy new modules and game suppliments. But they new system is just so damn different from the older systems, I just don't want to buy an entire new set of books again. The 3.X Edition of The Monsters Manual is more complex than the 2nd Edition Monstrous Manual, but with even just a rudimentary understanding of the 3rd Edition rules it's still understandable. The 4th Edition Monsters Manual just looks like jibberish. I have no earthly idea what any of that junk is that's written in there. So I scour the gaming stores for previously owned 2nd and 3rd Edition materials. I've just bought a copy of The Complete Ranger's Handbook, which pretty much rounds out my handbook collection. The only one I'm missing now is The Complete Ninja's Handbook, but that one wasn't very good or very useful, so no big loss if I never find a copy.

My biggest problem is I can never seem to find anyone willing to play anything other than the latest edition of the game. That's very frustrating.

While I'm sure RIFTS and White Wolf may have done a "scortched earth reboot" of their games, I doubt they do it every six years or so. I've flipped through a few newer editions of RIFTS and to be honest, they didn't look all that different from the versions I played as a kid.

 

[3dman27]

isn't this thread supposed to be about the tvshow?

 

[Dread]

It is, but we digressed a bit into talking about the game that the show is based on. As far as message board digressions go, it's not THAT far removed from the topic.

Apparently, the BCI Box set actually had a booklet that sort of imagined the cast from the show (the six kids, Venger, and maybe Dungeon Master) as actual D&D characters with stats and all, but I don't know what edition's rules it was. The show took place in the 80's just as the 2nd edition was being ironed out, I believe.

 

[Thundarr]

It is, but we digressed a bit into talking about the game that the show is based on. As far as message board digressions go, it's not THAT far removed from the topic.

Apparently, the BCI Box set actually had a booklet that sort of imagined the cast from the show (the six kids, Venger, and maybe Dungeon Master) as actual D&D characters with stats and all, but I don't know what edition's rules it was. The show took place in the 80's just as the 2nd edition was being ironed out, I believe.

It did, I still have mine (it wasn't in the box when it was stolen). They were written for the 3.5 Edition, as that was the latest edition at the time of the DVD's release. It does in fact come with the stats of all six kids, Dungeon Master, Venger, Shadow Demon, and the orc general (I can't remember whether or not they gave him a name). It also comes with a prewritten adventure, which is a prequel to the episode The Dragons' Graveyard, allowing the players to play out the adventure that brought them to the portal home that they almost got to at the very beginning of the episode. Despite my dislike of third edition, pretty cool stuff.

 

[mr. peasant]

True, to a certain extent. The rules did become somewhat more complex with some of the later editions, especially 2nd Edition. Some people found the THAC0 system difficult to learn, and so they changed it for 3rd Edition. That's one change I agreed with.

People found the old Saving Throw system confusing so they changed it for 3rd Edition. Another change I agreed with.

People found the Non Weapon Proficiency system clumsy and ineffective, so they adopted the Skill Point System for 3rd Edition. Personally I think it was unnecessary as the Character Point System from Skills & Powers had already fixed it, but I have no problems with it.

People missed the monk and barbarian classes from 1st Edition, so they were brought back in 3rd Edition. Unfortunately the Lizards Of The Coast screwed up the barbarian class, but at least they brought it back.

People didn't like that their characters would get a set number of Hit Points after a certain point (usually 9th level). So they changed it that players rolled their hitpoints for every level. Another change I agreed with.

Then they went overboard with their changes. They took away the warrior's extraordinary strength and extraordinary constitution. I didn't like that.

They introduced the feat system. I hated that.

They allowed all races to be all classes. I don't agree with that decision either.

They allowed rangers and druids to be of any alignment. Another decision I hate.

They changed the description of halflings to resemble the kender from the Dragon Lance novels rather than hobbits from LOTR. Another change I hate.

There are other examples I could name, but you get the point. But while 3rd Edition made some changes just for the sake of making changes, at its core it's still D&D. But 4th Edition? It's ALL changes for the sake of making changes, and none of it improves the game. And it came out so soon after the introduction of 3rd Edition that it is more than just "good business", but suckering all the D&D players to scrap their entire gaming collections to start over again from scratch. And because 3rd and 4th Editions are so dissimilar, you can't even use your 3rd Edition books for a 4th Edition game.

So, it's agreed that it boils down to personal taste. Just as how there are undoubtedly some out there who like 3.5 or who still swear by basic D&D. Which brings me back to my original point: 4th edition appears to be aimed at the younger generation. And since a reboot of the cartoon should obviously be aimed at this younger generation, as well as promote the game, shouldn't a hypothetical reboot be thus based on 4th edition?

The question isn't so much what we prefer but what a new animated D&D show should be doing; should it purely cater towards the old fanboys or be marketed towards the new generation of players in terms of its content, while bringing the fanboys in as part of the peripheral demographics by way of nostalgia, nods and in-jokes.

 

[Thundarr]

So, it's agreed that it boils down to personal taste. Just as how there are undoubtedly some out there who like 3.5 or who still swear by basic D&D. Which brings me back to my original point: 4th edition appears to be aimed at the younger generation. And since a reboot of the cartoon should obviously be aimed at this younger generation, as well as promote the game, shouldn't a hypothetical reboot be thus based on 4th edition?

The question isn't so much what we prefer but what a new animated D&D show should be doing; should it purely cater towards the old fanboys or be marketed towards the new generation of players in terms of its content, while bringing the fanboys in as part of the peripheral demographics by way of nostalgia, nods and in-jokes.

I see what you're saying. What you're looking for isn't a reboot, it's a spin-off. A reboot is taking the same characters, in the same situation, only with more modern animation techniques, greater leeway with the violence, and (hopefully) better stories. Something along the lines of the 2002 reboot of He-Man & The Masters Of The Universe. Heck, characters even died on that show!

What you want is something more along the lines of Transformers: Beast Wars, which I never watched because I thought it just looked stupid. The original series had a reason behind why the Autobots and Decepticons were at war, and why they transform into vehicles and such. Beast Wars came about because some studio exec thought it would be cool (and boy was he wrong).

I would love to see a reboot. I would understand if they did a spin-off instead, with new classes and new characters, but I probably wouldn't watch it.

 

[<(o_o)>]

Peter Cullen as Venger.