Fantasy Dungeons & dragons movie discussion

Thundarr

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I started this discussion on a couple of other websites and the opinions and such were quite interesting. I figured, as this is an international site, the opinions and such might be a little more diverse. Again, I think it's a fun and interesting discission. So what are your thoughts on the D&D movies? What changes would you have made if it were up to you to write them? What D&D novels would you like to see turned into movies? The first two D&D movies were meant to be the first two thirds of a trilogy. How do you think the third movie should be written? All opinions and points of view are valid, so don't be shy and let it all hang out.

DUNGEONS & DRAGONS: THE MOVIE

Personally, like many people I know, I think the first D&D movie sucked! There was just so much that was wrong with that movie it's hard to know where to begin. However, I own a copy of it on DVD (it's D&D and it was on sale) so I've seen it with both the feature length comentaries as well as all the deleted and extended or incompleted scenes. And I'd have to say that if they were ever to re-edit the film, completing and adding in several of the lost scenes, and rerelease it on DVD as an "Extended Edition Director's Cut", it would be almost watchable. These are the changes that have to be made...

1) One of my biggest problems with this movie was that they never gave the dwarf a name. The entire movie he was called either "him" or "the dwarf". Turns out that he actually does have a name, they just left it on the proverbial "cutting room floor" due to "time constraints". The characters name was Elwood Gutworthy. There was a scene in the sewers just after the four main characters escaped Damodar and The Crimson Brigade where he introduces himself. As this would be an extended cut, time constraints wouldn't be an issue and the scene should deffinately be edited back in.

2) There was supposed to be a running gag in the fight scenes in the bar and the Thieves Guild where Elwood's helmet would get knocked off and he would go berserk and kick some serious butt. These scenes were also cut out due to time constraints, but I think putting them back in would make those fight scenes more entertaining. Again, this is an extended director's cut, so time constraints are meaningless.

3) There was an unfinished scene of Marena and Riddley inside the magic scroll. This scene was cut due to budget, and the director thought that the important information gets relayed to Snailz later in the film and therefore didn't need to be repeated by the wraith. But there was a part of the scene where Marena and Riddley were arguing where Riddley tells her of his fathers unfair treatment at the hands of the Mages Council, thus revealing the root of his hatred of the mages and also shattering the foundations of Marena's entire belief system. All in all, a very emotional scene which deserved to be in the finished film.

4) There was a scene just after Snailz was killed, where Norda is consoling Marena. She says something along the lines of "You grieve for Riddley. I grieve too, for his kind hearted friend. But all is not lost. If we can make it to The Elven Forrest in time, he may yet be saved." The scene was cut due to time constraints, but deserves to be put into the extended cut.

5) There was an unfinished scene during the battle between the gold dragons and Profion and his supporters from the Mages Council that was cut due to budget. E. Gary Gygax was playing one of the mages. I would finish the scene and edit it back in for that reason alone.

6) The ending with Riddley and the others at Snailz's grave was actually shot a year after the movie was finished. Originally the ending had Riddley in the graveyard alone, and after a tearful goodbye walking off to his knighting cerimony. The producers felt it was too serious an ending and ordered a new "happier" ending be shot. I saw the original ending and I have to say I much prefer the original to the rewrite.

DUNGEONS & DRAGONS II: WRATH OF THE DRAGON GOD

I put off watching this movie for a very long time. When I finally broke down and bought a copy (it was part of the same sale as the first one) I was very surprised. I liked it! I really, really liked it! It wasn't perfect by any means. There was certainly room for improvement. But the writing was infinately superior to the first movie, and the actors took their rolls very seriously (reading Players Handbooks, Monsters Manuals, and DMGs between shoots, etc). There were a few minor changes I would have made to the characters, casting, wardrobe, script, etc. But on the whole I thought they did an excellent job! Here are the changes I would have made...

BEREK THE FIGHTER: First thing about Berek is I would have made him a paladin rather than just a plain fighter. There are three reasons for this. One, it opens up the party to more racial diversity (there are too many damn humans in this movie). Two, it opens up the party to more class diversity (someone else could be the plain fighter). And three, it opens up the party to more magic items (I would have given Berek The Paladin a Holy Avenger and given the Vorpal Sword to Lux). I also would have given Berek the same surname as Riddley's in the first movie (I think it was Freemantle), thus indicating to the observant viewer that he is a desendant of Riddley's (and presumably also Marena's). As for casting, while the actor who played Berek did an admirable job, I would have cast Cary Elwes (Saw, The Princess Bride, Robin Hood: Men In Tights). He's a fine actor and a skilled swordsman.
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LUX THE BARBARIAN: Of all the characters, Lux is the one I have the most problems with. First there's her wardrobe, it's too civilized. I didn't even realize she was supposed to be a barbarian until Berek's wife said the line "The barbarian is certainly beautiful." When dressing a barbarian for a fantasy adventure film like D&D, less is more (especially when the barbarian in question is female). I would have put her in a fur bikini, mukluks (Boots Of The North), a sword belt, an ornate set of (enchanted) bracers (Bracers Of Defence), and a fur cloak (possibly of Winter Wolf hide or a Cloak Of Protection). As for the actress who portrayed Lux, she didn't seem to have the look of a fantasy barbarian. She's beautiful, and may be athletic in a cheerleader sort of way. But even in proper attire she wouldn't be very intimidating or barbaric. I would have cast former WWE Diva and two time Playboy covergirl Joanie Laurer (aka "The Ninth Wonder Of The World" Chyna) in the role.
joanie-laurer-bikini-pic.jpg

Or if you want someone just as buff but less well known, former Miss Olympia Corinna Everson (she played Atalanta on Hercules: The Legendary Journies).
Cory_Everson_as_Atalanta_by_hardbodies.jpg


Or if you want someone more conventionally beautiful, Victoria Pratt, who played an amazon on a couple of episodes of Xena: Warrior Princess and played Sarge in the (blessedly) short lived TV series Cleopatra 2525.
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ORMALINE THE ELVEN MAGE: The actress who played Ormaline did a fantastic job and the character was very well written. The only change I would make to this character is to recast her with an A List actress. I would choose either Kristen Kruek (Smallville)
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or Lexa Doig (Andromeda).
They both have a very exotic beauty which makes them perfect to playing elves. Liv Tyler (The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy) would also be a good choice.

DORIAN THE CLERIC: Dorian was very well written, and the actor who portrayed him did a fine job. He was played with strength, intelligence, wisdom, and compassion, exactly as a cleric of a goodly god should be. But if I were to recast the role with a known actor, I would have to go with Liam Neeson. He exhibited all those same qualities when he played Qui-Gon Jin in Star Wars Episode I: The Franchise Menace, as well as when he played Aslan in The Chronicles Of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe.
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NIM THE ROGUE: Nim is another character that would require an entire rewrite. Not because he was poorly written or cast. Again, I really liked the writing and think all the actors did a fantastic job. But there were too damn many humans in this movie! Therefore I would have written Nim as a halfling (a little cliche, I know, but apropriate). The actor who played Nim might be short, but he's not small enough to play a halfling. Thus I would have cast Warwick Davis in the role (Willow, Star Wars Episode I & VI, Harry Potter I - IV, Leprichaun I - V).
warwickWillow.jpg

He's well known, he loves the genre, he's a fine actor, and unlike most people born with dwarfism he has long fingers. If he's unavailable, I'd have cast Vern "Mini-Me" Troyer (the Austin Powers movies and TV's Jack Of All Trades).
He's probably more well known among the younger movie goers, but I haven't seen him in anything other than comedies so I don't know how seriously he'd take the role. My other two picks for the role of Nim would have required an even larger rewrite, turning he into a she (and maybe giving her a more feminine sounding name, like Nymara or something). My first female pick for the role of the halfling rogue is Debbie Lee Carrington, who many of you might remember as Thumbelina, the blonde midget hooker in the Schwarzenegger flick Total Recall.

My second choice is former adult film star, Bridget "The Midget" Powers.
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Last I heard she gave up doing porn to front a punk rock band called Blakkout, but she might have said yes to a ligitimate acting gig. After casting a little person in the role of the halfling rogue, all they'd have to do is get the WETA Workshop to fit them with some hobbit feet.

ELWOOD GUTWORTHY THE DWARVEN FIGHTER: See, I told you making Berek a paladin would open up the party to more classes and races. I would have written Elwood back into the story both to add more races to the party other than human, as well as for tactical purposes. As he was part of the original party that defeated him 100 years earlier, he has insight into Damodar's tactics and abilities. Besides, he's one of the only members of the original party who don't consider a single century that long of an amount of time, since dwarves live for about 400 years. As for casting, I would have to go with Lee Arenberg, who played Elwood in the original.
Arenberg_sd54396_150.jpg

Not only is he familiar with the character, but it helps with film continuity. If Lee is unable to take the role, then I'd go with Brett Beatty who was the scale double for John Rhyse Davies during the Lord Of The Rings Trilogy (no picture available). He's 4'9", has a blackbelt in karate, is a classically trained actor, and a licenced stuntman. Or if they can't get him, maybe Hornswoggle from WWE Monday Night RAW. He's also the right size and a capable athlete.

NORDA THE ELVEN RANGER: Another example of how making Berek a paladin rather than a fighter opens up the party to more classes and races. Norda would be enlisted for the same reasons as Elwood, her personal knowledge of Damodar and his tactics. Plus, as an elf she also is the only other member of the original party who lives for several centuries. The role of Norda should have been given to Kristen Wilson, who played Norda in the first movie, for continuity sake.
Kristen%20Wilson.jpg

If she were unable to take the role, then I'd suggest iether Lexa Doig, Kristen Kruek, or Liv Tyler (whichever one didn't take the role of Ormaline).

Those are all the changes I would have made to the casting of the sequel. Here are the changes I would have made to the script itself...

LUX'S BERSERKER RAGE: I've never made any attempt to hide my dislike of the new 3rd Edition rule that all anyone needs to go berserk is a set of wolfskin underwear and a horned helmet, and I stand by my opinion on that. That's not what this is about though. Wrath Of The Dragon God was written using the 3rd Edition core rule books as its template, I understand and accept that. However, regardless of whether you're using 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Edition as your reference material, there is a world of difference between using a berserker's rage in game and translating that onto the screen. In the game you simply tell your DM that you're going berserk and then make the necessary adjustments on your character sheet. On film, it has to be more dramatic. I didn't even know Lux was supposed to be in the midst of a berserker rage until Ormaline had to knock her on her ass with a lightning bolt and shout "Barbarian! Get a hold of yourself!" Here are the changes I would have made to that scene...

1) When the brigands are running down the hill and Lux is waiting to meet them, she should have been taking deep breaths, snarling, growling, foaming at the mouth (an effect easily achieved by putting a couple of Alka Seltzer tablets in your mouth and letting the frothing saliva drip down you face).

2) She should have been performing feats of superhuman strength during the battle. Launching men 6 feet in the air with a kick to the googlies (that's Joss Whedon speak for a kick to the groin), picking a man up by the throat one handed and throwing him 10 feet into a group of his comrades, etc.

3) Some of the bandits attacks should have gotten through her defences only to bounce off the protective shield provided by her Bracers Of Defence.

4) Some of the bandits attacks should have gotten through her defences causing what should be a crippling wound, which she totally ignores. A bandit shatters her shoulder with a solid hit with a morning star. Another bandit drives his spear into her hip. Another bandit stabs her in the gut with a short sword. She ignores them all and just cuts down the offending brigands.

5) Once safely inside Malek's Vault, Lux collapses due to her exhaustion and the numerous wounds she had suffered. Berek has to use all of his paladin healing powers to heal her wounds so she can continue.

THE FINDING OF THE VORPAL SWORD: This scene was never shot due to budgetting problems. Originally, after the party had passed the room with the Dark Mantels they entered a long hallway (if you look closely you'll see the sword he fights off the Dark Mantels with and the one he smashes through the wall with are completely different). The floor at the far end of the hallway starts to rise like a drawbridge while the rest of the floor starts to retract to dump the occupants into a spiked pit. Each member of the party takes a running leap across the widening pit. Berek went last, almost falling into the pit. As he was dangling by the drawbridge he saw a skeleton with a Vorpal Sword lying in the pit, and at the last possible second he reached into the pit and retrieved the sword. That's how it was written. Instead of cutting the scene completely, I would have rewritten it in a more cost effective way. Here's how I would have written it...

1) As I said above, I would have given the Vorpal Sword to Lux. Rather than have her find it in The Vault, I would have given it to the Bandit Leader. When he sees how powerful Lux is, he drinks a Potion Of Super Heroism, a Potion Of Strength, and a Potion Of Speed (essentially giving him the benefits of a berserker's rage). He then draws his Vorpal Sword and charges down the hill to attack. He and Lux have a brief but fast and furious duel (somewhat akin to Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker's duel in Revenge Of The S#!t, but not as long). The bandit leader cuts right through Lux's sword while parrying one of her attacks. He has her dead to rights, but before he can strike the final blow Ormaline nails him with a lightning bolt. The potions he imbibed earlier allow him to shrug off the worst of the effects, leaving him stunned (it's more like being shot with a tazer than being struck by lightning). Lux wrenches the Vorpal Sword from his grasp and cuts him in two, literally. Lux then cuts down more brigands until Ormaline knocks her on her ass and shouts "Barbarian, get ahold of yourself!"

2) Before the room with the Dark Mantels, I would have put a guard room which is littered with the skeletal remains of a score of goblins and one human in plate armour with a goblin sword in his chest. While Nim and Elwood search the bodies for anything valuable, Berek, Norda, and the others deduce what happened here. Apparently, a paladin had made it to the guard room and engaged the goblin guards in battle. He slew most of them, but the last one got in a lucky shot. With his last breath the paladin slew the last goblin. Unfortunately he didn't have strength enought to heal his wound before he died. This was shortly before Malek teleported himself into the wall and died, so no other goblin guards were able to replace the ones who died or loot the bodies. Berek finds that the paladin's sword was a Holy Avenger and trades with him, saying a prayer to the fallen hero's spirit to let him know that the sword is being used by a fellow paladin in the name of good.

THE BANDIT ATTACK: I said it before and I'll say it again, there were way too many damn humans in this movie. I would have made the bandits orcs, or drow, or hobgoblins, or grimlocks. Anything other than humans. I understand that this movie had a much smaller budget than the first one did, and as such probably couldn't afford the prothstetic latex makeup for that many stuntmen and extras. Making them drow would probably have been cheapest, as they'd just need elf ears, white wigs, and a whole lot of black makeup. Then they could just import a bunch of Chinese stuntmen from the Hong Kong film industry (they're smaller and of slighter builds than most American stuntmen).

THE ENERGY SHIELD: I would have killed off Nim the halfling rogue here. Not that I disliked the character or anything, I just think it would have been more dramatic. Everyone gets across the energy shield safely, but Nim (being a 3' tall halfling) can't get across in time and gets fried. Makes the whole thing a little more emotional, a little sadder, a little darker. Like in an actual D&D game, sometimes your character dies.

Well, those are all the changes I would make to the first two films. I'll write up my ideas for the third movie in the D&D Trilogy at a later date. Feel free to critique my ideas, the movies, post your own ides, whatever. The sky's the limit! Have fun with it. Who knows, maybe some Hollywood bigwig likes to log on to this site and we might inspire him to make a better third installation. Hey, it could happen!
 
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There was a sequel to Dungeons and Dragons? :huh:
 
There was a sequel to Dungeons and Dragons? :huh:


Shockingly, yes. I guess enough of us gaming geeks went to see it in theatres and rented/purchased it on DVD to warrant a sequel. As I wrote in my post, the first movie was supposed to be the beginning of a trilogy. There was apparently enough interest to make the second installment. I don't know about plans for a third though. I wouldn't mind seeing the third if it has the funding of the first movie and the writers of the second. You should try renting #2 and giving it a watch. Remember the writing and directing are better, but the special fx aren't as good and it has no known actors (except for Bruce Payne).
 
I realize that this may be considered sacriledge to the seasoned D&D faithful - but would I be guilty of committing a faux pas by suggesting an adaption of the 80's cartoon be a step in the right direction?

>adopts defensive fetal position in anticipation of rabid hardcore responses<
 
So wait...what happened at the end of the first movie....They all turned to light and went to heaven or something?
 
You know what? I found myself oddly entertained by the first film.
I mean, clearly it's poorly acted, has some hilariously cheesy costume design, a few terrible characters and just... you know... it's bad...

I guess it's one of the few movies I can call a guilty pleasure. Kind of reminds me of watching an episode of those cheesy shows... like Xena, or Hercules... hilariously bad stuff, but still somehow entertaining... to a point.
 
THe D&D movies are a guilty pleasure of mine. The first one is a trainwrek, but I still love watching it from time to time. THe second one is much more watchable. Though I afree there are too many damn humans in it.
 
I realize that this may be considered sacriledge to the seasoned D&D faithful - but would I be guilty of committing a faux pas by suggesting an adaption of the 80's cartoon be a step in the right direction?

>adopts defensive fetal position in anticipation of rabid hardcore responses<

I second that. The plot is pretty straight forward and the characters would appeal to everyone. There's no way you could mess up an adaptation of the 80's toon....could they?
 
Cheers for that.

Would they mess it up? Never say never, although it would kinda be hard to - as you say, the plot is straight forward and the characters would appeal to demographic.

All I know is, live-action Venger and Tiamat would kick ass.
 
So wait...what happened at the end of the first movie....They all turned to light and went to heaven or something?

They were suppose to go to where a resurrected or reincarnated Snailz is in a different world.


There have been talk of a 3rd film based on Temple of Elemental Evil campaign module.
 
I realize that this may be considered sacriledge to the seasoned D&D faithful - but would I be guilty of committing a faux pas by suggesting an adaption of the 80's cartoon be a step in the right direction?

>adopts defensive fetal position in anticipation of rabid hardcore responses<


I've suggested this myself. I'd even written out a list of actors I'd like to see cast in the roles (I'll look for it and post it later). It wouldn't really be a sequel to the first two movies though, more like a reboot of the franchise.
 
They were suppose to go to where a resurrected or reincarnated Snailz is in a different world.


There have been talk of a 3rd film based on Temple of Elemental Evil campaign module.


I had not heard that. Never played that module, what's the story about? Are they planning to reprise any of the characters (Damodar, Profion, Norda, Elwood, any of the characters from Part 2, etc)?
 
Wasn't the second a Sci Fi Channel movie?
I'm pretty sure it was made by or at least a co-production with Sci Fi. I rememeber after that movie came out sci fi was planning a mini series to continue on. Nothing happened from it of course.
 
So what would you guys like to see in a future D&D movie? Would you prefer a totally original movie? Or would you rather it be based on an actual game module or novel? If so, which ones? Me? I'd like to see a live action adaptation of the D&D cartoon. Or a film adaptation of The Legend Of Drizzt Do'Urden. Or The Finder Stone Trilogy. Or the Spellfire Trilogy. Those would all make great D&D movies.
 
If they're going to make a new series of D&D-based movies, they should go with the Dragonlance saga. Until then, I'll remain happy with my Lord of the Rings trilogy, which I watch while commenting as such: "Oh, he lost initiative." "What a critical hit!" "That'd require like, fourty Dexterity checks ya pansy ass elf!" etc.
 
A predictable request coming from me, but I would like to see a big-budget depiction of fantasy genre lizard-men (or "lizardfolk, as they are now called) onscreen.
Since I've largely given up on seeing the comic villain The Lizard appear in a Spider-Man movie, I've come to realize that the cool lizardmen that were a part of the original D&D game and used to regularly pop up in the D&D cartoon haven't really been used in an epic fantasy film.

I'd like to see some super-realistic, "Avatar" type CGI used for some fantasy lizardfolk.
lizardman2.gif
 
Lizardfolk are great atypical monsters in D&D, especially when the DM uses them in a different way than the usual orcs and goblins.

My favorites were the subraces that were featured in an issue of Dragon magazine. Instead of generic lizardmen, there were geckomen, iguanamen, monitormen, etc. All equally deadly in their own way.
 
If they're going to make a new series of D&D-based movies, they should go with the Dragonlance saga. Until then, I'll remain happy with my Lord of the Rings trilogy, which I watch while commenting as such: "Oh, he lost initiative." "What a critical hit!" "That'd require like, fourty Dexterity checks ya pansy ass elf!" etc.


I agree that the Dragon Lance novels would make a good series of movies. I prefer Forgotten Realms myself as it's a much larger world with far more diversity. You could have one set of movies based on The Moonshae Trilogy, another based on The Finder Stone Trilogy, and yet another based on The Dark Elf Trilogy. There are some good stories in Dragon Lance, but not nearly as plentiful.
 
A predictable request coming from me, but I would like to see a big-budget depiction of fantasy genre lizard-men (or "lizardfolk, as they are now called) onscreen.
Since I've largely given up on seeing the comic villain The Lizard appear in a Spider-Man movie, I've come to realize that the cool lizardmen that were a part of the original D&D game and used to regularly pop up in the D&D cartoon haven't really been used in an epic fantasy film.

I'd like to see some super-realistic, "Avatar" type CGI used for some fantasy lizardfolk.
lizardman2.gif


Well if they ever do a live action movie version of the animated series you just might get your wish. Lizardmen and bullywugs were some of Venger's top henchmen.
 
I agree that the Dragon Lance novels would make a good series of movies. I prefer Forgotten Realms myself as it's a much larger world with far more diversity. You could have one set of movies based on The Moonshae Trilogy, another based on The Finder Stone Trilogy, and yet another based on The Dark Elf Trilogy. There are some good stories in Dragon Lance, but not nearly as plentiful.

The Realms are also all over the place, whereas the Dragonlance saga is typically about the same group of characters, allowing for more to pull from when the inevitable changes to the story are made.
 
The Realms are also all over the place, whereas the Dragonlance saga is typically about the same group of characters, allowing for more to pull from when the inevitable changes to the story are made.

Well, they can just hunker down and focus on the Realms' hands-down most popular character of all time; Drizzt Do'Urden. A movie about such a character would attract hardcore fans and casual viewers alike. ;)
 
Well if they ever do a live action movie version of the animated series you just might get your wish. Lizardmen and bullywugs were some of Venger's top henchmen.

One of my favorite eps of the '80s D&D cartoon was "Servant of Evil", where the lizardmen get ahold of the kids' magic weapons and actually use them with more skill than the kids normally do.
 

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