Batman Begins Elfman vs. Zimmer/Howard

when i left BB, i didn't have the theme in my head, it wasn't burned on the film. Tim burton's Danny Elfman's theme was in the first film Batman. But, i think BB concentrated on people remembering the movie rather than the music more, but the music in BB was more elegant than in Burton's film, which is i believe
 
the theme is actually still in my head. The deep dark parts that go........"DAHHHHHH......DAH...DAHHHHHHHHH.....DA DAHHHHH....DA DAHHH.....DAHHHHHHHHHHHH.......classic stuff.
 
People say that Elfman wouldn't fit for Begins. You guys are aware that Elfman is a flexible composer. If Nolan would have hired him to compose this film he would have made music to fit the film. Just look at Batman and Batman Returns. The music is very different because the style and mood of the films were different. Just thought I should bring that up.
 
I don't notice anything different between the scores for Batman and Batman Returns except maybe he loosened up a little. But I'm not saying he's one dimensional. His score for Spiderman is a completely different tone than his Batman score. I don't know if he could have done a good score for Begins but I'm glad Zimmer and Howard did it. They are my two favorite composers and they did a great job.
 
I think this is sort of an unfair poll. Burton NEVER strives for realism in his films. It's this nebulously set, gothic, "operatic" fantasy feel, and Elfman's score was appropriate (and amazing) for that movie's setting and tone. Elfman's score would've been out of place in Nolan's more sublte/realistic in tone film. So...

Elfman did great for the movies he worked on. The music fit and complimented the film.

Zimmer/ Newton Howard did great for the movie they worked on. The music fit and complimented the film.

-trr
 
True, but which is the one that really knocks your socks off. Which do you remember. Which do you feel defines the feeling of Batman or the essence?

The answer is Elfman. It is very unique and iconic and sounds like a specific theme for Batman. The music by Howard and Zimmer was terrific mood music, but it did not stand out very much and the "epic theme" people refer to sounds almost exactly like Zimmer's epic theme for Gladiator and his epic theme for King Arthur. In fact BB's score could fit well into any historical war epic. Elfman's Batman score can only fit into the dark gothic Batman and can only be associated with Batman.

That combine with it sticks with you and just not the themes but the mood music (like the finales for both Burton films or the music where Batman is climbing the cathedral's bell tower, that was mood music) is also compeletly memorable. That is why Elfman blows away their score.
 
Well if you were asking that then I think Walker's theme for Batman is much more definitive than Elfman's. And if you ask the average person, they probably wouldn't be able to hum Elfman's score. But they would most likely know the theme from the 60's tv show.
 
Both scores are great, but for different reasons. Danny Elfman created a great Batman theme. Zimmer and Howard created a great Batman score. The difference between the two is, for the most part, Danny Elfman's score was carrying the first two Batman movies. Don't get me wrong, they're decent movies, but not the best representations of what Batman should be (and why don't we just call Batman the Joker and Batman Returns The Catwoman and the Penguin's Night Out). Batman Begins' score goes along with what's happening in the movie. It doesn't carry anything, that's the actor's job, and all the actors do a brilliant job of it. The score just accompanies it and is like a puzzle piece that you need to finish a giant puzzle.

Bottom line?

Two great scores for some great movies
 
treeringralph said:
I think this is sort of an unfair poll.
-trr

I never asked which score complements the film better. I simply asked which was the better score.
 
Catman said:
People say that Elfman wouldn't fit for Begins. You guys are aware that Elfman is a flexible composer. If Nolan would have hired him to compose this film he would have made music to fit the film. Just look at Batman and Batman Returns. The music is very different because the style and mood of the films were different. Just thought I should bring that up.

I don't think he could handle BATMAN BEGINS. It's just not his style. Besides, even if he could, we've heard his take on Batman. It was time for someone else. Period.
 
I don't know why people say that Elfman only had themes and no mood music. He did manipulate his Batman theme, his love theme, his parents death theme, his Joker theme, Penguin theme, etc. to fit moods, but also he had mood music which is just as iconic and the best examples of this are Descent into Mystery, Fire up the Batmobile, the Belltower climb, and Finale.

And they are so I conic some just have names that do not describe the scene and you know what piece of musical composition I am speaking of.
 
Elfman has good music. He just wouldn't fit the musical structure and essence that BEGINS required.
 
I wonder what would happen if they all callaborated(sp?) on the next one.
 
Seen said:
I don't think he could handle BATMAN BEGINS. It's just not his style. Besides, even if he could, we've heard his take on Batman. It was time for someone else. Period.

Elfman has composed all sorts of movies. He could have handled this! Have you seen Dead Presidents? The man can handle a gritty movie. And what's the deal about its time for someone else? We've already gotten Shirley Walker and Elliot Goldenhal. I think based on those two we could all have arrived to the conclusion that Elfman is to Batman what John Williams is to Superman.
 
It's unfair to compare the 2. Yes...both scores are for Batman movies....but Elfman's score is for a significantly campy/hollywood Batman while Christopher Nolan's is for an epic, very dark, gritty, and realistic Batman.

I will say Elfman's theme is more catchy.....but I think Zimmer/Howard's score fits Batman better.
 
Elfman's still is better, but this one was good enough.

However, in the background rhythm of the new score, It sounded almost the same as Elfman's heavy vibrations of some of his music, like when the batmobile is driving to the cave w/ Vale in B89. Any one else notice the small similarity? Or maybe its just me.
 
Does anyone think the BB score sounded kinda like Shirley Walker's music. The main theme seemed to sound alot like the first part of Walker's theme, kinda like a shortened version. They should have just have hired Shirley Walker (and maybe with another composer), which would have been cheaper and would probably have same or similar theme with some music from the cartoon series and movies.
 
Such a close race. I love both scores. I voted for Zimmer/Howard just because it is the most vibrant in my memory, and because for the more realistic version of Batman (the one I prefer) their score suited it perfectly. However, for more of a goth-type batman movie, Elfman's theme was amazing.
 
I own the score on it's own, and while it makes for a good listen, and it's starting to paint the picture of "Batman" in my head when I hear the theme, I still think they made a mistake by teaming up two huge composers (and epic composers nonetheless) to complete this project.

This was in effect an "Indy" film... it needed an indy composer.... and though my love for Elfman and his work in '89 and '92 runs strongly in my veins, I can definately picture something outside of his/Burton's world. I'd of liked to have seen Mychael Danna do this score for his use of unique instruments and independant style... or even Trevor Rabin... yes, a little more epic as oppose to indy, but he wouldn'tve overdone it -- not that I'm accusing Zimmer/Howard of "overdoing" it, but their combined "indy" style came off sounding forced instead of natural.

Nevermind all that though, the score itself is weak because of having so much deadweight on the tracks. That being said, when it kicks up a notch, it's amazing... although it can get repetitive... and this is where I think developing a main theme would've helped them... even if it was building the entire film just to be released in a small dose at the end. It felt as if it got nowhere.... which in a timeline sense I guess it worked in harmony with the movie. After all, this wasn't exactly a "progessional" story. From the beginning to the end, Bruce had already suffered his loss and found what he wanted to do within the first hour. The second hour was merely following through on this. A theme however could've developed during the first hour and be hinted at right on down until the end.

The epic moments of the score are indeed fantastic and underwhelming... I love it... but it comes down to two major portions. 1) what I'll dub as the "Batman/Justice" theme, and 2). a reflection/childhood theme. The childhood theme is spectacular and works well in hand with the Justice/Batman theme. If they had defined these themes however, they could've done so much more. My guess is they didn't want to do more as it could seem overwhelming, and I can understand that to an extent, but the overall problem is that you leave the theater not having anything to hum and think of Batman with. It hasn't established itself musically, which is of great importance with a movie of this magnitude.

Please note -- I am not one of those guys who sees a movie and complains there is no main theme, or I can't hum along, or remember the theme... my complaint more points towards the fact that this was an independant score done by epic composers, and it seems wrong. It's as if you asked a proffessional builder to build a home in Zulu. Sure, he's talented and probably the best at his craft... but you're putting him in a situation where he is not at his element, and a couple of locals could probably do the job much better.

My vote for Bats 6 -- get rid of Zimmer and let Howard take what he's developed thus far and build a true score instead of elements of themes.

All in all, I own the CD, and it's not bad... but it just seems like a missed opportunity and poorly presented with alot of dead weight added to pad it out.
 
Oh, and this poll is horrible because it shouldn't be "which score is better", it should be "which did it's job better". Two different movies altogether... you can't do real math with fractions that don't share the common denominator. :up:
 
Batman 89 has a fantastical kind of score, and Begins has the epic scope to it.
 

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