Ex-Moon teacher charged in sending photos, texts to teen

[jaguarr]

this is all fine and dandy but my points were really aimed at the sexual inequalities rather than the (lawfully) responsible party.

I fail to see any difference. The adult is always in the wrong in these cases, both ethically and legally.

jag

 

[Figs]

Don't be paranoid. I wanted to know how old you are.
Frankly you sound like you're teenager...of the "adults just don't understand. , Kids are people too! " variety.

I'm 36 and I consider most people in their TWENTIES to be stupid youngsters. A 14 year old is a f***ing child.

And you seemed to lack any understanding of what Statutory Rape is...continually acting as if the fact that the boy is totally consenting has anything to do with it.

Teenage GIRLS get horny too. Some of them are mainly into way older guys.
So would you give your daughter a medal if her professor had sex with her?

No, I fully know what statutory rape is. I find it ignorant that you think most people in their twenties are stupid. Is that to say that you were also "stupid" in your twenties? As I said before the teacher should pay the price since it is against the law, because it is statutory rape.

As for the teenage girls get horny and giving your daughter a medal for having sex with her professor...I guess I do have a bit of a double standard then. It's just when your growing up in school and see how many "players" there were it gives you a different outlook on the sexes. Most of these guys were playing girls left and right like they were morons and the girls never picked up on it.

While most of that starts in middle/high school I do agree that the kids don't know the full "responsibility" of what they are doing and the possible outcomes.

As for the "I sound like im still a teenager going through that whole parent/authority hate thing". I don't deny I sound like that at all. I really can't stand control mainly because my Dad shoved Catholicism down my throat my whole life, and I kind of resent him still and always will.

 

[jaguarr]

No, I fully know what statutory rape is. I find it ignorant that you think most people in their twenties are stupid. Is that to say that you were also "stupid" in your twenties? As I said before the teacher should pay the price since it is against the law, because it is statutory rape.

As for the teenage girls get horny and giving your daughter a medal for having sex with her professor...I guess I do have a bit of a double standard then. It's just when your growing up in school and see how many "players" there were it gives you a different outlook on the sexes. Most of these guys were playing girls left and right like they were morons and the girls never picked up on it.

While most of that starts in middle/high school I do agree that the kids don't know the full "responsibility" of what they are doing and the possible outcomes.

As for the "I sound like im still a teenager going through that whole parent/authority hate thing". I don't deny I sound like that at all. I really can't stand control mainly because my Dad shoved Catholicism down my throat my whole life, and I kind of resent him still and always will.

We're not talking about kids having sex with other kids their own age (which isn't that great of an idea, either, to be honest, but I know it goes on), though, which is where I think you're confusing things. We're talking about adults in positions of power over kids, chartered with their education, safety and well-being taking advantage of the situation and the naivete of those kids in order to have sex with them or molest them. They are two entirely different issues and there is a reason adults go to jail for doing it; it is wrong. Gender of the child has nothing to do with it.

jag

 

[Matt]

In regards to your point Figman, about in the past kids being married and pregnant by 14...well, its kind of a different scenario.

1) Lifespan was a lot shorter. Therefore 14 in all reality, wasn't the same stage of life it is today (people were forced to develope the maturity of adults by the time they were 14...its not the case today).

2) We know a lot more than we did back then. Kids don't finish puberty and their bodies are not fully matured sexually or mentally until any time between 18 and 21. Therefore an adult taking advantage of them is that much more sick.

 

[jaguarr]

In regards to your point Figman, about in the past kids being married and pregnant by 14...well, its kind of a different scenario.

1) Lifespan was a lot shorter. Therefore 14 in all reality, wasn't the same stage of life it is today (people were forced to develope the maturity of adults by the time they were 14...its not the case today).

2) We know a lot more than we did back then. Kids don't finish puberty and their bodies are not fully matured sexually or mentally until any time between 18 and 21. Therefore an adult taking advantage of them is that much more sick.

The other thing that's unspoken about kids being married and pregnant by age 14 in a bygone era is that many of them were FORCED into it by their parents and lived incredibly unhappy lives as a result.

jag

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

fact is, that the teacher is a sick *****, who will be punished for her crimes.

that is all..the morals are not applied..you don't touch kids!

or you face the consequences..on way..or another.

 

[November Rain]

I fail to see any difference. The adult is always in the wrong in these cases, both ethically and legally.

jag

Ya but it doesn't leave the child blameless either. We don't live in a censor free environment anymore but for some reason we think we do. Teenagers have far more acess to a perception of life experience (if not genuine life experience) which i feel may hold them accountable for their actions.

Sure adults should be held responsible for aiding them fulfil these tasks but ultimately there are weak adults there and a manipulating child is just as willing to catch them off as anyone else, especially when it deals with matters of the heart.

I've heard of parents buying their kids alcohol and common drugs simply because they know they are going to go out and do it anyway and they'd rather they didn't get ripped off. Here are 17/18 yr olds manipulating people in their late 30s.

it's easy to cast a mental picture of a 14 yr old child but until you stare into the eyes of the actual culprit and chat with them, one can't grasp how much responsibility he actually has for the actions that have taken place.

The stereotype of young boys conquering teachers and young girls being victims of older men comes from the perception of men doing the chasing which casts contradicting images just based on media and social conjuring over the years.

IN reality both child/student combos could find end in results of both conquest/victimisation and the teacher would be wrong on all four incidents but the students hold responsibility on some (depending on individual).

In my previous school i had a few teacher/student relationships going on, some sordid, others were morally just but legally kaplut, some ended in engagement.

In the uk, one can legally have sex at 16 with anyone. So technically a 26 yr old boss can seduce her 16 yr old intern and it would be morally seen as legit and both parties would be responsible for actions. However a 26 yr old teacher would not be able to see a 16 yr old student (that they don't even teach) and the teacher is entirely to blame for seduction. I know it's not representative of this case (since it doesn't deal with statuatory rape)but still.

I know its not the same as in this situation but i have a hard time dealing with issues like such above.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

No, I fully know what statutory rape is. I find it ignorant that you think most people in their twenties are stupid. Is that to say that you were also "stupid" in your twenties? As I said before the teacher should pay the price since it is against the law, because it is statutory rape.

You don't know **** about life until you've lived on your own, supporting yourself. Most people who are in their early 20's have just barely started on that venture. They're novices at life.
I don't mean that they're all "stupid", I'm using the term "stupid kids" to say, they still have so much to learn.
I definitely thought I was totally together and superior when I was in my 20's.
Now I can look back and see how wrong I was.
Life experience gives you that ability.
14 year olds do not have enough Life Experience under their belts.

As for the teenage girls get horny and giving your daughter a medal for having sex with her professor...I guess I do have a bit of a double standard then. It's just when your growing up in school and see how many "players" there were it gives you a different outlook on the sexes. Most of these guys were playing girls left and right like they were morons and the girls never picked up on it.

What are you talking about?
I'm not seeing a defense for your double standard.
there are very precocious, manipulative girls who see it as a badge of honor to seduce an older man...just like there are boys who would think it was "rad" to screw their hot teacher.
If it's cool for dudes, it's cool for chicks.

As for the "I sound like im still a teenager going through that whole parent/authority hate thing". I don't deny I sound like that at all. I really can't stand control mainly because my Dad shoved Catholicism down my throat my whole life, and I kind of resent him still and always will.

I understand.
I would think, having suffered that kind of treatment from your father, you might have more disdain for an adult taking advantage of the naive horniness of a kid though.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

You don't know **** about life until you've lived on your own, supporting yourself. Most people who are in their early 20's have just barely started on that venture. They're novices at life.
I don't mean that they're all "stupid", I'm using the term "stupid kids" to say, they still have so much to learn.
I definitely thought I was totally together and superior when I was in my 20's.
Now I can look back and see how wrong I was.
Life experience gives you that ability.
14 year olds do not have enough Life Experience under their belts.

What are you talking about?
I'm not seeing a defense for your double standard.
there are very precocious, manipulative girls who see it as a badge of honor to seduce an older man...just like there are boys who would think it was "rad" to screw their hot teacher.
If it's cool for dudes, it's cool for chicks.

While most of that starts in middle/high school I do agree that the kids don't know the full "responsibility" of what they are doing and the possible outcomes.

I understand.
I would think, having suffered that kind of treatment from your father, you might have more disdain for an adult taking advantage of the naive horniness of a kid though.

For the first time in years Wilhelm and I agree

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

For the first time in years Wilhelm and I agree

I'll bet we both like pizza too!
Am I right?

 

[jaguarr]

Ya but it doesn't leave the child blameless either. We don't live in a censor free environment anymore but for some reason we think we do. Teenagers have far more acess to a perception of life experience (if not genuine life experience) which i feel may hold them accountable for their actions.

Just because kids have more access to uncensored information and more traditionally adult-themed subject matter these days doesn't mean they're more capable of processing and understanding those things.

Sure adults should be held responsible for aiding them fulfil these tasks but ultimately there are weak adults there and a manipulating child is just as willing to catch them off as anyone else, especially when it deals with matters of the heart.

Adults are supposed to know better. Period.

I've heard of parents buying their kids alcohol and common drugs simply because they know they are going to go out and do it anyway and they'd rather they didn't get ripped off. Here are 17/18 yr olds manipulating people in their late 30s.

Agreed. But it has nothing to do with adult teachers seducing their underage students.

it's easy to cast a mental picture of a 14 yr old child but until you stare into the eyes of the actual culprit and chat with them, one can't grasp how much responsibility he actually has for the actions that have taken place.

Yes, some children are manipulative. But adults are supposed to be....well....the adult in these situations and know that smexing up a fourteen year old kid is wrong, not just ethically but legally as well. No matter how bad that kid says they might want it.

The stereotype of young boys conquering teachers and young girls being victims of older men comes from the perception of men doing the chasing which casts contradicting images just based on media and social conjuring over the years.

Young girls can be just as manipulative and horny as young boys. No doubt about it. But it's up to the adult to know better and do the right thing.

IN reality both child/student combos could find end in results of both conquest/victimisation and the teacher would be wrong on all four incidents but the students hold responsibility on some (depending on individual).

I agree that there is an educational opportunity about personal responsibility for the kids in question, but it's so damn hard to figure out which of these kids were genuinely taken advantage of and which ones were manipulating the situation knowingly. But...they are kids, which means they don't think through their decisions, even if they are being manipulative. They don't think about the consequences their actions might have, not only on themselves but on others. That's a big part of why they are still considered kids and off limits.

In my previous school i had a few teacher/student relationships going on, some sordid, others were morally just but legally kaplut, some ended in engagement.

In my view, the teacher/student relationship shouldn't be tainted by romance and sexuality. It should be kept strictly at the educational and mentoring level. Sex and "love" just undermine the whole process for both parties, IMHO.

In the uk, one can legally have sex at 16 with anyone. So technically a 26 yr old boss can seduce her 16 yr old intern and it would be morally seen as legit and both parties would be responsible for actions. However a 26 yr old teacher would not be able to see a 16 yr old student (that they don't even teach) and the teacher is entirely to blame for seduction. I know it's not representative of this case (since it doesn't deal with statuatory rape)but still.

I know its not the same as in this situation but i have a hard time dealing with issues like such above.

Even workplace situations present an issue because it's too easy for a boss to make someone feel pressured to give in to their advances for fear of losing their job. It could easily be considered "sex under duress" for lack of a better term. Certainly not ethical.

jag

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

I'll bet we both like pizza too!
Am I right?

You don't know me

 

[Figs]

You don't know **** about life until you've lived on your own, supporting yourself. Most people who are in their early 20's have just barely started on that venture. They're novices at life.
I don't mean that they're all "stupid", I'm using the term "stupid kids" to say, they still have so much to learn.
I definitely thought I was totally together and superior when I was in my 20's.
Now I can look back and see how wrong I was.
Life experience gives you that ability.
14 year olds do not have enough Life Experience under their belts.

That was a simple misjudge on my part then. I guess a better word you could have used would have been Naive.

What are you talking about?
I'm not seeing a defense for your double standard.
there are very precocious, manipulative girls who see it as a badge of honor to seduce an older man...just like there are boys who would think it was "rad" to screw their hot teacher.
If it's cool for dudes, it's cool for chicks.

I wasn't meaning in relation to older guy/girl getting with younger guy/girl. The double standard comes from seeing the kids of the same age group when your growing up through middle/high school. Just how a lot of guys were always playing the girls like they were morons and never picked up on it.

They would tell them they love them just to get in their pants and a whole lot of girls would fall for it and end up crying later when the guy went on to do the same to another girl. I just saw it as (not to sound sexist, and start a battle of the sexes arguement) the guys knew more of what they wanted, even though I agree with you and the others that they still didn't realize the consequences of "what they wanted".

I understand.
I would think, having suffered that kind of treatment from your father, you might have more disdain for an adult taking advantage of the naive horniness of a kid though.

I do have disdain for it, just I don't think it's as bad as if an older guy were to take advantage of a pre-eighteen year old girl. So yeah, I guess I am a bit of an ******* with a double standard.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I do have disdain for it, just I don't think it's as bad as if an older guy were to take advantage of a pre-eighteen year old girl.

Why?
I'm not hearing Why.

The closest thing I'm hearing is that most the guys in your experience took advantage of girls, who fell for it.

That's not valid. I couldn't even count the girls who did the same thing to dudes that I've known, including my SELF, when I was young.
And this isn't about teens mistreating teens, it's about ADULTS mistreating teens.

I'm surprised you haven't brought up the fact that an unwanted pregnancy is harder on the female than the male, but that too would be irrelevant because if a teacher is only letting his female student give him hand jobs in the parking lot, he'd still be arrested.

I'm not singling you out, because the double standard is super-common. But that double standard disgusts me.
Am I the only man here who has known MANY manipulative, sexually voracious teenage girls?!

I myself was relentlessly pursued by a 16 year old girl when I was in my 20's. Among other things, like normal verbal flirting, she grabbed me and kissed me, hoping I'd get sucked in and not be able to resist, and she also asked me if we could "talk", and I said "sure", and when we did, she exposed her breasts and grabbed my hands and put them on her breasts.

I was turned off by her, but my roommate COULDN'T resist. She moved right to him when I "declined", they had sex, and sure enough, when he got tired of her and said he didn't want to see her anymore, she started talking about how "confused" she was, and how she was thinking about telling her parents about the sex they'd had. (blackmail).



See, I'm not so much concerned with the psychological aftermath for the horny teens, I'm pissed about the DOUBLE STANDARD, on MY side, that of the adult.
I had this teenage girl all over me. If I'd been lonely or drunk enough, I may have given in. Then I'D be this reviled monster who deserves to go to prison.

But when the same thing happens with an adult woman, everyone's like, "What's the big DEAL?! It's cute. Kudos! "
Or, "Where were wonderful teachers like this when I was in school?! "


See, that's why the Double Standard pisses me off.

 

[November Rain]

Just because kids have more access to uncensored information and more traditionally adult-themed subject matter these days doesn't mean they're more capable of processing and understanding those things.

Well I certainly believe that they do, or at least the minority of children that we hear about that end up in situations where they are getting one over a legal adult.

Adults are supposed to know better. Period.

Not just adults but kids as well.

Saying this, there are probably more dumb risk taking adults in this world than kids.

Agreed. But it has nothing to do with adult teachers seducing their underage students.

It was merely an example of how a child can seduce their own parents into breaking the law on their behalf, similar to this one

Yes, some children are manipulative. But adults are supposed to be....well....the adult in these situations and know that smexing up a fourteen year old kid is wrong, not just ethically but legally as well. No matter how bad that kid says they might want it.

perhaps you are viewing this situation from the pov of someone who expects better of the average joe of society, the same people who willingly poison their own bodies and drink/drive and leave armed guns around kids. The average adult, especially young adult (like myself) sucks.

NO matter how old they legally are, if you take a adult with no real life experience of personal ethic, you can lead them anywhere and make them believe anything.

I agree that there is an educational opportunity about personal responsibility for the kids in question, but it's so damn hard to figure out which of these kids were genuinely taken advantage of and which ones were manipulating the situation knowingly. But...they are kids, which means they don't think through their decisions, even if they are being manipulative. They don't think about the consequences their actions might have, not only on themselves but on others. That's a big part of why they are still considered kids and off limits.

I think your view on teenagers may be slightly out here. Again there is going to be a perception of exceptionally bright ones that know how to get what they want and also know they can bail and play the child card. They've shown a few programmes on it over here in the uk. Remember we are talking about a small percentile of the population and not grouping them as a whole.

Another point should be just because it may be difficult to find out the agenda and culprit of the act doesn't mean that all responsibility should immediately fall to the adult. both parties know the score here but again this is on a case by case basis.

In my view, the teacher/student relationship shouldn't be tainted by romance and sexuality. It should be kept strictly at the educational and mentoring level. Sex and "love" just undermine the whole process for both parties, IMHO.

I agree with you here but crap does sometimes happen.

Even workplace situations present an issue because it's too easy for a boss to make someone feel pressured to give in to their advances for fear of losing their job. It could easily be considered "sex under duress" for lack of a better term. Certainly not ethical.

jag

you do know that most people in their 20s in this day and age are not very independant and straight out of uni into their first job back at home, they really haven't achieved any real sense of adulthood.

 

[Figs]

Why?
I'm not hearing Why.

The closest thing I'm hearing is that most the guys in your experience took advantage of girls, who fell for it.

That's not valid. I couldn't even count the girls who did the same thing to dudes that I've known, including my SELF, when I was young.
And this isn't about teens mistreating teens, it's about ADULTS mistreating teens.

I'm surprised you haven't brought up the fact that an unwanted pregnancy is harder on the female than the male, but that too would be irrelevant because if a teacher is only letting his female student give him hand jobs in the parking lot, he'd still be arrested.

I'm not singling you out, because the double standard is super-common. But that double standard disgusts me.
Am I the only man here who has known MANY manipulative, sexually voracious teenage girls?!

I myself was relentlessly pursued by a 16 year old girl when I was in my 20's. Among other things, like normal verbal flirting, she grabbed me and kissed me, hoping I'd get sucked in and not be able to resist, and she also asked me if we could "talk", and I said "sure", and when we did, she exposed her breasts and grabbed my hands and put them on her breasts.

I was turned off by her, but my roommate COULDN'T resist. She moved right to him when I "declined", they had sex, and sure enough, when he got tired of her and said he didn't want to see her anymore, she started talking about how "confused" she was, and how she was thinking about telling her parents about the sex they'd had. (blackmail).



See, I'm not so much concerned with the psychological aftermath for the horny teens, I'm pissed about the DOUBLE STANDARD, on MY side, that of the adult.
I had this teenage girl all over me. If I'd been lonely or drunk enough, I may have given in. Then I'D be this reviled monster who deserves to go to prison.

But when the same thing happens with an adult woman, everyone's like, "What's the big DEAL?! It's cute. Kudos! "
Or, "Where were wonderful teachers like this when I was in school?! "


See, that's why the Double Standard pisses me off.

You have to realize not everyone had the same experience growing up in school. From my point of view in life, seeing things threw my eyes in school, I never saw any of the girls acting like predators. I only saw the guys doing it for the most part and the girls looking dumbfounded like they didn't know why the guys won't associate with them anymore after they got what they wanted.

I'm not denying what you said, just that I never saw any of that growing up so that's why I have I guess you can say I have a skewed view on the matter.

 

[The Lizard]

I'm still amazed that it wasn't Morg who found this story first, since it features the words "high school", "teen", "nude", and "photos".

 

[LexCorp]

Eh it's all kind of progress off topic a bit.

The bottom line here is that the gym teacher was in the wrong and prayed on the 14 year old kid.

Was the kid asking for it? Was he aware of the situation 100% like an adult could be? I really really doubt it. Ask him in 10 years if he thought he was an adult at 14.

 

[turtlefocker]

So you endorse a double standard for underage sex abuse cases. Got it.

jag

I am also endorsing this double standard.

 

[LexCorp]

I am also endorsing this double standard.

Do you even know what standard was being talked about?

 

[jaguarr]

I am also endorsing this double standard.

jag

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I am also endorsing this double standard.

Well it's totally wrong, evil and sexist...so I'd love to hear your explanation as to why you endorse it instead of just an endorsement.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Who are these 14 year old boys who are not keeping this stuff to themselves!?

 

[LexCorp]

Tick tock

 

[kane9321]

Who are these 14 year old boys who are not keeping this stuff to themselves!?

thats what i wanna know