"First Steps" Season 2: Episode 18 Discussion Thread

[Anwar]

Are we sure the thing Eddie used at the end was really a webshooter? It could've just been some kind of grappling rope like the kind Chameleon and Black Cat use.

I too was wondering why Eddie never triggered Peter's Spider-Sense. I mean it went off when Harry tackled him (and that wasn't a hostile attack), so even if Eddie wasn't planning on attacking Peter it should've at least gone off at the end when Eddie was watching him at the construction site.

Ah well, maybe they were just trying to play up the paranoia level by making us think that maybe Pete was just hallucinating.

 

[MrShifty]

can't find this online anywhere!

 

[Jick]

I wasn't expecting much from Sandman, but at the end of the episode, I really liked it. The scene with the little girl was so cute. I wonder if he's gonna face Hydro-Man someday in this show. It'd be neat...dirty, I mean.^^
I liked how Eddie was leaving Peter paranoid. But how he could follow Peter is beyond me. And he was all freaky and menacing in the end. Kudos.
8/10

 

[Spiderine]

Are we sure the thing Eddie used at the end was really a webshooter? It could've just been some kind of grappling rope like the kind Chameleon and Black Cat use.

I too was wondering why Eddie never triggered Peter's Spider-Sense. I mean it went off when Harry tackled him (and that wasn't a hostile attack), so even if Eddie wasn't planning on attacking Peter it should've at least gone off at the end when Eddie was watching him at the construction site.

Ah well, maybe they were just trying to play up the paranoia level by making us think that maybe Pete was just hallucinating.

Why would he trigger his spidersense, Eddie never attacked him.

 

[Spiderine]

Anyways, let me just say that was a fantastic episode. Not quite a 10 but I give it the next best thing. I really loved Sandman in Competition and this episode truly made me like him more. Kudos to the marvelous writers of this show. GULLABILITY...LOL...love that

 

[The Joker]

Why would he trigger his spidersense, Eddie never attacked him.

So? Peter's spider sense doesn't just sense impending attacks on himself. He senses general danger in the area.

For example, his spider sense has allowed him to suss out the Chameleon's disguises. His spider sense has warned him when someone was carrying a concealed weapon. Even in the Spider-Man movies, he sensed the Green Goblin was coming to Times Square before anyone even saw the Goblin. And Goblin was not coming to attack him.

There was a few plot holes involving Brock in this episode. Take his web shooter device, or whatever it was that he made. There's no way in hell he had the speed and skill to keep up with Spidey using that without the symbiote. And how Brock always knew where Peter was going to be in advance I don't know.

 

[anarchistguy]

So? Peter's spider sense doesn't just sense impending attacks on himself. He senses general danger in the area.

For example, his spider sense has allowed him to suss out the Chameleon's disguises. His spider sense has warned him when someone was carrying a concealed weapon. Even in the Spider-Man movies, he sensed the Green Goblin was coming to Times Square before anyone even saw the Goblin. And Goblin was not coming to attack him.

There was a few plot holes involving Brock in this episode. Take his web shooter device, or whatever it was that he made. There's no way in hell he had the speed and skill to keep up with Spidey using that without the symbiote. And how Brock always knew where Peter was going to be in advance I don't know.

If I remember right, Greg Weisman himself stated in an interview that in Spectacular Spider-Man, Spidey's spider sense only went off when something bad was about to happen to HIM only.

 

[The Joker]

If I remember right, Greg Weisman himself stated in an interview that in Spectacular Spider-Man, Spidey's spider sense only went off when something bad was about to happen to HIM only.

Yeah? Well they should let the audience know that in the cartoon.

That severely diminishes the effectiveness of the spider sense.

 

[Doctor Jones]

We don't need everything spelled out for us, we can figure it out ourselves eventually.

 

[anarchistguy]

Yeah? Well they should let the audience know that in the cartoon.

That severely diminishes the effectiveness of the spider sense.

Yeah, but in a way, it's more logical, IMO

 

[The Joker]

We don't need everything spelled out for us, we can figure it out ourselves eventually.

That's not "everything". That's one thing. And an important thing, too.

 

[Spiderine]

So? Peter's spider sense doesn't just sense impending attacks on himself. He senses general danger in the area.

For example, his spider sense has allowed him to suss out the Chameleon's disguises. His spider sense has warned him when someone was carrying a concealed weapon. Even in the Spider-Man movies, he sensed the Green Goblin was coming to Times Square before anyone even saw the Goblin. And Goblin was not coming to attack him.

There was a few plot holes involving Brock in this episode. Take his web shooter device, or whatever it was that he made. There's no way in hell he had the speed and skill to keep up with Spidey using that without the symbiote. And how Brock always knew where Peter was going to be in advance I don't know.

We know many different writers have had their own take on the spider sense and it's an issue that has been largely inconsistent like in Spiderman 3 when Harry swooped down and took Peter off his moped. Where was the tingle? Greg has stated that his sense wouldn't go off unless there was an immediate danger of threat towards Peter. Where in this episode was Brock posing as a physical threat or intending to do physical harm to Peter for his sense to go off?

 

[The Joker]

We know many different writers have had their own take on the spider sense and it's an issue that has been largely inconsistent like in Spiderman 3 when Harry swooped down and took Peter off his moped. Where was the tingle?

Plot hole and bad writing. Spider-Man 3 is full of that.

It's why it's so unpopular.

Greg has stated that his sense wouldn't go off unless there was an immediate danger of threat towards Peter.

So I've been told. Greg needs to tell his audience that in the cartoon. Not on-line interviews.

The boundries of a character's powers should always be established in the story.

Take Sandman in this episode. The comic book character doesn't have many weaknesses. But water is definitely one of them. Even Spider-Man 3 showcased it. But in this episode he's swimming in the water, going right to the bottom of the ocean etc. And it's having zero effect on him.

Is this another thing I missed in an interview?

Where in this episode was Brock posing as a physical threat or intending to do physical harm to Peter for his sense to go off?

Obviously never. But then that's not the nature of the proper Spidey sense. They've severely restricted it.

 

[Syncos]

Yeah? Well they should let the audience know that in the cartoon.

That severely diminishes the effectiveness of the spider sense.

Actually it makes it more consistent. Peter's spider-sense is often written as a plot device. Allowing him to do whatever is necessary to advance the story.

Why the hell would they need to say that in the series? All they have ever shown us in the series is Peter's spider sense reacting to danger. Consistently. After 18 episodes, of the same power, it should give you enough background of it to comprehend what it does.

 

[Spiderine]

So I've been told. Greg needs to tell his audience that in the cartoon. Not on-line interviews.

The boundries of a character's powers should always be established in the story.

Take Sandman in this episode. The comic book character doesn't have many weaknesses. But water is definitely one of them. Even Spider-Man 3 showcased it. But in this episode he's swimming in the water, going right to the bottom of the ocean etc. And it's having zero effect on him.

Is this another thing I missed in an interview?

Well, ole Sandy mentioned something about his powers being augmented while in prison. To what extent and what specific, who knows. I was also expecting the water to muck up his molecules as well but apparently water no longer has an effect on him.

 

[The Joker]

Actually it makes it more consistent. Peter's spider-sense is often written as a plot device. Allowing him to do whatever is necessary to advance the story.

That's because his spider sense is a plot device, like the rest of his powers. A device used to advance a story. Powers are always a plot device. The actual character provides the substance.

Why the hell would they need to say that in the series?

To let viewers know the boundries of his powers, of course. Not everyone reads these on-line interviews.

All they have ever shown us in the series is Peter's spider sense reacting to danger.

Exactly. But there's varying types of danger. Immediate danger, hidden danger, distant danger etc.

If Peter's spider sense reacts to the Chameleon in disguise half way across a crowded room in some future episode, then you'll be eating your words.

After 18 episodes, of the same power, it should give you enough background of it to comprehend what it does.

But that's just it, it didn't. Hence why I'm wondering why he didn't know he was being follwed by an enemy. That was a danger.

Why do you think Norman Osborn had to use a gas to dull his spider sense in the comics? Because he wanted to follow him.

 

[The Joker]

Well, ole Sandy mentioned something about his powers being augmented while in prison. To what extent and what specific, who knows.

Yeah, but he said he was now able to attract sand from anywhere he liked. I assume that was the augmentation he was talking about. Because he was taking all kinds of shapes and sizes in this episode.

Nothing was mentioned about him being water resistant.

 

[Spiderine]

Yeah, but he said he was now able to attract sand from anywhere he liked. I assume that was the augmentation he was talking about. Because he was taking all kinds of shapes and sizes in this episode.

Nothing was mentioned about him being water resistant.

Right, Anywhere. On the beach or in the water, which now enables him to solidify and control the sand in water. Water now has no effect unless it freezes like in reinforcements episode.

 

[AIRWOLF]

Actually it makes it more consistent. Peter's spider-sense is often written as a plot device. Allowing him to do whatever is necessary to advance the story.

Why the hell would they need to say that in the series? All they have ever shown us in the series is Peter's spider sense reacting to danger. Consistently. After 18 episodes, of the same power, it should give you enough background of it to comprehend what it does.

Exactly. In fact, we see this in movies and other tv shows where some of the plot holes, if you want to call them, allow for the story to advance otherwise logic would take the fun out of it.

Right, Anywhere. On the beach or in the water, which now enables him to solidify and control the sand in water. Water now has no effect unless it freezes like in reinforcements episode.

Makes sense. In any case, I think we're delving too much into this "logic" business when its still just fiction, and fiction is full of worm holes.

 

[The Joker]

Right, Anywhere. On the beach or in the water, which now enables him to solidify and control the sand in water. Water now has no effect unless it freezes like in reinforcements episode.

Why would water have no effect? It's still sand. If hardening his body was all he had to do, then he'd do it every time. He doesn't need extra sand to make his body hard, he does it all the time when making a fist or whatever.

And as for the Spidey sense, it's always had established boundries. This from the Ultimate guide to Spider-Man that Marvel pusblished:

Now guys, I love this show as much as you. But it's got it's flaws. This is one of them. Anyone who knows Spidey knows about the spider sense and how it works. There's the proof above. Peter's spider sense should have reacted to Brock's presence.

Some of you are telling me Greg outline the new boundries of the spider sense in some interview. Poor way to let the audience know that. You tell it in the show.

It's a flaw. Not the end of the world. Nothing is flawless. Well, except maybe 'Shear Strength'

 

[AIRWOLF]

^ Well as you said, everything is full of errors and flaws. Don't mean any disrespect here , but you really went ahead to prove that "this" is a flaw on show's part involving Eddie. Well if it helps, my theory is that when the symbiote bonded to Eddie, it must have been a much stronger bond (obviously it created Venom) that perhaps allowed Eddie to not trigger Peter's spider-sense, so this ability of his is not limited to him being Venom only.

 

[The Joker]

^ Well as you said, everything is full of errors and flaws. Don't mean any disrespect here , but you really went ahead to prove that "this" is a flaw on show's part involving Eddie.

Only because I was met with such fierce opposition that this was not a flaw from you three guys

It's not a major flaw. Just a puzzling one. I didn't get why Peter's spidey sense wasn't reacting to Brock. Especially since he didn't have the symbiote. I mean they mad such a big issue of that in the comics with Norman following him. I didn't understand how he was able to keep up with Spidey. He has no super powers. Web shooters or not, you need super speed and agility to keep up with the wall crawler. He covers a few city blocks in a matter of seconds web swinging. No way Eddie could do that.

Not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but this was the bulk of Brock's presence in this episode. And alot of it didn't make any sense.

Well if it helps, my theory is that when the symbiote bonded to Eddie, it must have been a much stronger bond that perhaps allowed Eddie to not trigger Peter's spider-sense, so this ability of his is not limited to him being Venom only.

It's possible. But until we're told, or even hinted at such a theorey, I'll just have to view it as a plot hole.

 

[AIRWOLF]

Only because I was met with such fierce opposition that this was not a flaw from you three guys

It's not a major flaw. Just a puzzling one. I didn't get why Peter's spidey sense wasn't reacting to Brock. Especially since he didn't have the symbiote. I mean they mad such a big issue of that in the comics with Norman following him. I didn't understand how he was able to keep up with Spidey. He has no super powers. Web shooters or not, you need super speed and agility to keep up with the wall crawler. He covers a few city blocks in a matter of seconds web swinging. No way Eddie could do that.

Not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but this was the bulk of Brock's presence in this episode. And alot of it didn't make any sense.



It's possible. But until we're told, or even hinted at such a theorey, I'll just have to view it as a plot hole.

Oh come on, it wasn't a fierce opposition, it's one of the down sides of trying to communicate through use of Internet, you can't see beyond the words . However, you're quite right when you say such things should be mentioned in the show itself so audience know why its happening whatever is happening.

 

[Syncos]

That's because his spider sense is a plot device, like the rest of his powers. A device used to advance a story. Powers are always a plot device. The actual character provides the substance.



To let viewers know the boundries of his powers, of course. Not everyone reads these on-line interviews.



Exactly. But there's varying types of danger. Immediate danger, hidden danger, distant danger etc.

If Peter's spider sense reacts to the Chameleon in disguise half way across a crowded room in some future episode, then you'll be eating your words.



But that's just it, it didn't. Hence why I'm wondering why he didn't know he was being follwed by an enemy. That was a danger.

Why do you think Norman Osborn had to use a gas to dull his spider sense in the comics? Because he wanted to follow him.

First of all, being followed by Eddie didn't put him in any immediate danger. Eddie was buildings away, and had no malicious intent, other than to mess with Parker's head. This is why it's good to have limitations on the spider sense, so that it's not some all knowing force. If it -had- picked up Eddie, the argument could be made of -why-? He didn't do anything. There was no danger to alert Spidey of.

I still don't get your argument. Greg may have mentioned the way they have the spider-sense react in interviews. but that's not how the general public is supposed to know of it. In 18 episodes of the spider sense going off in pretty much every episode, it's only ever alerted him of immediate danger. you need to pull away from what you know, and follow it in the context of the story being told. After seeing something done consistently for 18 episodes, that's enough knowledge to allow a viewer to understand.

If it had been written inconsistently, I could see you demanding to know the limitations of it. as it would then be up in the air.

 

[Spiderine]

Yes, we know there are flaws with the sense. Otherwise in Shear Strength it should have went off when Electro and Vulture entered the scene to kidnap Gwen. In that pic, Spidey is looking directly at the guy and he senses the danger in that he has a gun on him. Eddie had no weapon and he was not at the particular time tryin to hurt Peter.