Florida Pastor To Burn Qurans On 9/11

[Kelly]

And if the people who killed those UN workers truly followed the Koran that the pastor burned, they would not have done what they did....

There is cause and effect in all things....

I'm not saying that what the pastor did was right, it certainly was not....and yes he is a *****enozzel, but the majority of the blame goes to the people who actually killed the UN workers.

Of course some of the blame goes to the pastor, he was totally irresponsible doing what he did....but he didn't pull the trigger.

 

[The Squirrel]

And if the people who killed those UN workers truly followed the Koran that the pastor burned, they would not have done what they did....

There is cause and effect in all things....

I'm not saying that what the pastor did was right, it certainly was not....and yes he is a *****enozzel, but the majority of the blame goes to the people who actually killed the UN workers.

Of course some of the blame goes to the pastor, he was totally irresponsible doing what he did....but he didn't pull the trigger.

This is my point as well and one of my 'friends' just came down hard on me for being a war monger.

 

[Kelly]

lmao, well I'm definitely not a war monger....but I am a Christian, and someone could burn my Bible right out in my front yard. I'm not going to start rioting or kill anyone because of it.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I agree with pretty much everything you said, Kel. He didn't pull the trigger and you certainly can't blame him as much as the actual murderers, but his actions were the catalyst for this situation and so he is still partly to blame for what happened.

And Squirrel your friend is an idiot for calling you a "war monger" for voicing a different opinion.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

And I'm not going to get into the whole "is Islam a violent religion" controversy, but this pastor knew burning a Koran was going to get a much more explosive reaction than burning a bible would.

 

[Kelly]

So what does that tell you?

Are we going to blame the doctor who aborts a baby for bombing an abortion clinic and killing people?

The doctor aborting the baby was certainly the catalyst...

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I'm an atheist. Someone could burn my Richard Dawkins book. I'd just go to Barnes N Noble and buy another. t:

 

[Kelly]

lol....point taken...

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

It tells me that certain elements of Islam are fanatical and extremist.

I merely said I'm not going to wade into that controversy. I didn't say I disagreed with it. I think when someone says "Islam is a violent religion" it blankets the whole religion. More accurate to say certain elements. And yes those extremist elements are violent and will kill people who don't believe the same as they do.

All the more reason this idiot shouldn't have burned a Koran.

 

[Kelly]

It tells me that certain elements of Islam are fanatical and extremist.

I merely said I'm not going to wade into that controversy. I didn't say I disagreed with it. I think when someone says "Islam is a violent religion" it blankets the whole religion. More accurate to say certain elements. And yes those extremist elements are violent and will kill people who don't believe the same as they do.

All the more reason this idiot shouldn't have burned a Koran.

I certainly can't disagree with that....its always amazing to me that people forget that...

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic Religions...they all follow the same God....their early histories are very, very similar. I think the biggest difference is, AND I'M PROBABLY GOING TO GET SLAMMED FOR THIS...but I think that the lack of education, in these less developed countries is a strong catalyst to the direction that many go within the Islamic religion.

 

[The Squirrel]

Islam could almost be split into two separate religions. You either have people following the violent parts or people following the peaceful parts. There is very little in between.

 

[Kelly]

Well, you can definitely separate it into those that follow Islam the religion, and those that are Islamists, using a religion to forward their political and power needs.

 

[The Squirrel]

Well, you can definitely separate it into those that follow Islam the religion, and those that are Islamists, using a religion to forward their political and power needs.

Yeah but it's events like this that make me feel that the Middle East is more Extremist than we want to think it is. Even if it is just a "mob mentality", it's pretty scary how fast those mobs can rise up.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Are we going to blame the doctor who aborts a baby for bombing an abortion clinic and killing people?

The doctor aborting the baby was certainly the catalyst...

Well wouldn't you agree there's a bit more provocation involved here? The pastor was looking for a reaction in a volatile part of the world. The doctor is doing his job and only really putting himself at risk.

I think a more apt analogy would be someone who ignores building safety codes when he's warned it might lead to a disaster later. The pastor was carless and didn't give a crap about the consequences.

 

[The Squirrel]

I think a more apt analogy would be someone who ignores building safety codes when he's warned it might lead to a disaster later. The pastor was carless and didn't give a crap about the consequences.

But why should there have been any consequences? How do you (not you but generally speaking) justify killing people over this event. Especially when it happened on the other side of the planet.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I certainly can't disagree with that....its always amazing to me that people forget that...

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic Religions...they all follow the same God....their early histories are very, very similar. I think the biggest difference is, AND I'M PROBABLY GOING TO GET SLAMMED FOR THIS...but I think that the lack of education, in these less developed countries is a strong catalyst to the direction that many go within the Islamic religion.

No, I'm not going to slam you at all because that's true. The Madrasahs (fundamentalist schools) in the Middle East take in kids from poor towns who can't afford private education. Not only do they teach them, but they feed them and sometimes shelter them too. However, their education is mostly religious indoctrination. It's a sad state of affairs. These kids grow attached to the Imam and see him like a father, because he cares for them, and grow up never questioning the radical rhetoric that he might tell them.

 

[Kelly]

Well wouldn't you agree there's a bit more provocation involved here? The pastor was looking for a reaction in a volatile part of the world. The doctor is doing his job and only really putting himself at risk.

I think a more apt analogy would be someone who ignores building safety codes when he's warned it might lead to a disaster later. The pastor was carless and didn't give a crap about the consequences.

I'm not about to try and get into that crazy preacher's brain....I might not get out.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

But why should there have been any consequences? How do you (not you but generally speaking) justify killing people over this event. Especially when it happened on the other side of the planet.

Nobody is justifying it. The actual killers might justify it ("he burned a koran, so I was filled with rage"). All I'm saying is that he was extraordinary ignorant or indifferent towards the consequences of his actions. The same actions that sparked the riots and indirectly led to the deaths of those UN workers. He KNEW the kind of people he was antagonizing, because military leaders and policy wonks had been on TV pleading for him not to go ahead with his Koran bonfire.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Nobody is justifying it. The actual killers might justify it ("he burned a koran, so I was filled with rage"). All I'm saying is that he was extraordinary ignorant or indifferent towards the consequences of his actions. The same actions that sparked the riots and indirectly led to the deaths of those UN workers. He KNEW the kind of people he was antagonizing, because military leaders and policy wonks had been on TV pleading for him not to go ahead with his Koran bonfire.

In my opinion, someone needs to hold a "trial" of the Bible and burn it right in front of him. Just for him and his eyes to see only. See how it feels for him.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Jesus... now he wants more death.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42386587/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

The account of the mock-trial he held for the Koran is just bizarre. Where does this pastor find the time and motivation for these insane shenanigans?

 

[Paroxysm]

He'd be shutdown if this happened up here. We don't take kindly to hate crimes.

 

[Kelly]

Well hell you guys call the text in the Bible hate speech....so um, yeah....you would, definitely.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Well hell you guys call the text in the Bible hate speech....so um, yeah....you would, definitely.

Who are "us" guys?

Swinging bachelors? Hypers? Fans of 'Monty Python'? Northern folk?

But seriously, don't generalize. I may not believe in God, but I've never called the Bible hate-speech. I think it has some important moral lessons that are sometimes twisted by others to serve their own selfish purpose (see this pastor, Fred Phelps, the Crusades, etc), but if you use its teachings to be a better person, I'm fine with that. My grandmother was very religious. Just because I'm not, doesn't mean I think any less of her or believe she read hate-speech. Just like not all Christians are alike, not all atheists are alike either.

 

[Kelly]

Um, the Canadian government....Canadian Law. I wasn't generalizing...


But, I think it is obvious that this crazy preacher was not using scripture in "good faith"...as the law describes I believe...so, "off with his head..."

 

[Paradoxium]

Who are we trying to kid, people don't have no balls to criticize radical Islamists on the same intensity and fervor as say the evangelicals. Simply because they don't want to look racist. Pure chicken ****.

NO I am not saying the Evangelicals should not be criticized, but you better be consistent when there is another giant in the room doing the same if not far worse crap.

And the fact they are killing people just because some stupid troll burnt a Qur'an shows how utterly insane these people are.