Forever Evil

[HighFivingMF]

I would have preferred the JL being trapped in Earth 3

Why would you prefer burned landscape to a reality that reacts and reforms to the characters' personalities?

 

[HELL N' SPIDERS]

^ Touche!

 

[Shazam]

Why would you prefer burned landscape to a reality that reacts and reforms to the characters' personalities?

How burned out or charred is it?

What menace forced the CS to run? Maybe the JL would be forced to fight it.


How would their powers operate in that universe?

We haven't seen that world yet except in origin flashbacks.....I would love to see Superman in the Earth 3 Metropolis interacting with pervert Jimmy and other weirded-out doblegangers....

I just think that would have been a good way to go.........

 

[Shazam]

Hell just being marooned on some desolate Earth or something would have worked.

Exactly.........I'm sure their are survivors there.......

 

[Shazam]

Actually, Pandora was temporarily sent to Earth-3 in her book and briefly met their Martian Manhunter. So it definitely still exists. It's just really really crispy.

Their Martian was still alive? I didn't read that story......Hmmmm.....makes me wish the JL had been switched there instead of in FS even more.

 

[Shazam]

I think the Firestorm matrix thing is cool. But I would have preferred Power Ring's ring.

And why is that?

 

[Hush]

What menace forced the CS to run? Maybe the JL would be forced to fight it.

I think its pretty safe to assume Darkseid at this point.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Their Martian was still alive? I didn't read that story......Hmmmm.....makes me wish the JL had been switched there instead of in FS even more.

He was dying, and I think he died shortly after. I think it was in Pandora 4 if you want to give it a skim at the shop when next you go.

 

[Shazam]

I think its pretty safe to assume Darkseid at this point.

An assumption or you got something?

 

[Shazam]

He was dying, and I think he died shortly after. I think it was in Pandora 4 if you want to give it a skim at the shop when next you go.

Thanks!

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

Honestly? If it is Darkseid I'll be disappointed, the Anti-Monitor would make more sense. But Darkseid can be beat, it wouldn't make sense that the CS would flee from Darkseid, no matter how powerful he is, or they think he is.

This event is too big and too good to end with a fight against Darkseid.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I don't know. I like the idea of it being Darkseid because the New52/Justice League started with him via Justice League 1-6. Ending the first era of New52 stories with the next confrontation would be nice, proper bookends. That's all provided that the story pays off against him though. If he comes across as weak then it'd suck.

 

[Shazam]

Honestly? If it is Darkseid I'll be disappointed, the Anti-Monitor would make more sense. But Darkseid can be beat, it wouldn't make sense that the CS would flee from Darkseid, no matter how powerful he is, or they think he is.

This event is too big and too good to end with a fight against Darkseid.

Agreed

 

[Hush]

An assumption or you got something?

Well if you read the Darkseid issue of Action comics he is shown as the scourge of the Cosmos and he is the one who invaded Earth 2 as well, by that pattern I'm gonna assume he is the guy the CS is running from. They wouldn't try to defend their earth as it isn't in the nature of them to do that and they ran. I also think Johns is trying to set him up as THE big bad again I mean the guy kinda just didn't have the oomph he should have hade for the past 20 years and that IMO is mainly due to his portrayal in the DCUA and Batman standing toe to toe with him in the Supergirl arc of b/s vol. 1.

I don't know, makes sense to me.

 

[Hush]

Honestly? If it is Darkseid I'll be disappointed, the Anti-Monitor would make more sense. But Darkseid can be beat, it wouldn't make sense that the CS would flee from Darkseid, no matter how powerful he is, or they think he is.

This event is too big and too good to end with a fight against Darkseid.

I mean he is a god, he literally should stomp heroes.

 

[Wise]

Well if you read the Darkseid issue of Action comics he is shown as the scourge of the Cosmos and he is the one who invaded Earth 2 as well, by that pattern I'm gonna assume he is the guy the CS is running from. They wouldn't try to defend their earth as it isn't in the nature of them to do that and they ran. I also think Johns is trying to set him up as THE big bad again I mean the guy kinda just didn't have the oomph he should have hade for the past 20 years and that IMO is mainly due to his portrayal in the DCUA and Batman standing toe to toe with him in the Supergirl arc of b/s vol. 1.

I don't know, makes sense to me.

Darkseid's portrayals in JL 1-6 and Final Crisis hurt the character more imo.

Though he's been a whipping boy for decades now. it started with Doomsday beating him to within an inch of his life in the 90s.

The DCAU version was actually pretty accurate and imposing I thought.

 

[Shazam]

Well if you read the Darkseid issue of Action comics he is shown as the scourge of the Cosmos and he is the one who invaded Earth 2 as well, by that pattern I'm gonna assume he is the guy the CS is running from. They wouldn't try to defend their earth as it isn't in the nature of them to do that and they ran. I also think Johns is trying to set him up as THE big bad again I mean the guy kinda just didn't have the oomph he should have hade for the past 20 years and that IMO is mainly due to his portrayal in the DCUA and Batman standing toe to toe with him in the Supergirl arc of b/s vol. 1.

I don't know, makes sense to me.

Spoiler

<H3>The New 52[edit]

Spoiler

In Justice League #1, Darkseid's name is invoked by a Parademon.[13] He is later mentioned again in Justice League #2,[14] and in Justice League #3 Darkseid makes his first appearance in the series, seen in a vision by Victor Stone after he is injured by an exploding Mother Box.[15] In the final pages of Justice League #4, Darkseid himself appears.[16] In Justice League #5, the League confronts him but they are overpowered by him, when he severely hurts Superman with his Omega Beams and breaks Green Lantern's arm.[17] Finally, in Justice League #6, Darkseid is driven out when Cyborg activates the invaders' Mother Boxes and Superman forces him through a Boom Tube. The incidents that occur in these issues make Darkseid the very first foe the newly formed League faces as a team. The issue also reveals Desaad and Steppenwolf, referring to Darkseid's daughter and their ceaseless search for her across countless worlds.[18] Darkseid's daughter escapes containment in Justice League of America's Vibe #7 after the dampeners on her cage are temporarily disabled.[19]
During the events leading up to Forever Evil, it is revealed that Darkseid also invaded Earth-3, the world of the Crime Syndicate. It is unknown as of yet if the planet was completely destroyed.[20]
Darkseid is also mentioned in World's Finest #1 by Power Girl as being involved in the events of the first issue of Earth 2 despite not being present in the actual book. Power Girl claims in issue 2 of World's Finest that the Darkseid seen in Justice League is the same one from Earth 2 when a picture is presented to them of Darkseid battling the Justice League, though Huntress is unsure if they are the same Darkseid despite Power Girl's claims. World's Finest #0 appears to confirm that there is a Darkseid that exists in the Earth 2 reality, but does not specify whether or not he was thrown into Prime Earth, as was the case with Power Girl and Huntress. His current whereabouts, if he is a separate incarnation of the character from the version which appears on Prime Earth during Justice League are unknown at present.

</H3>

 

[Shazam]

Is there just one Darkseid or does each universe have its own version?? Hmmmmm

Is the Apokolips attacking Earth 2 , the same as the JL faced?

 

[Lord]

Well if you read the Darkseid issue of Action comics he is shown as the scourge of the Cosmos and he is the one who invaded Earth 2 as well, by that pattern I'm gonna assume he is the guy the CS is running from. They wouldn't try to defend their earth as it isn't in the nature of them to do that and they ran. I also think Johns is trying to set him up as THE big bad again I mean the guy kinda just didn't have the oomph he should have hade for the past 20 years and that IMO is mainly due to his portrayal in the DCUA and Batman standing toe to toe with him in the Supergirl arc of b/s vol. 1.

I don't know, makes sense to me.

Darkseid's portrayals in JL 1-6 and Final Crisis hurt the character more imo.

I didn't read Final Crisis, but wasn't Darkseid portrayed there as Basically the "root of evil"?

And i remember Darkseid from the DCAU being shown as a "final boss" in almost all of his appearances, he was even the final threat fought in both, the superman and the JLU show.

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

yeah I don't know about how being a "whipping boy" because every time I've seen him he's been a boss.

I think the CS would've defended their Earth. Mainly because they worked so hard to get it under their control they wouldn't just give it up without a fight. Especially Owlman and Ultraman, they would've just give up without a fight.

To me it would just be a bait and switch technique and I don't want that. I want a major, significant villain that I believe would make the CS tremble in their boots like they do when they talk about it. Also, if the "hooded man" is Luthor, how is he the weapon to use against Darkseid?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Darkseid's portrayals in JL 1-6 and Final Crisis hurt the character more imo.

Though he's been a whipping boy for decades now. it started with Doomsday beating him to within an inch of his life in the 90s.

The DCAU version was actually pretty accurate and imposing I thought.

You thought the DCAU version was better than Final Crisis Darkseid? The DCAU had Darkseid as an evil warlord. Yeah, a very powerful one, but at the end of the day, he's just a powerul alien of a species named the New Gods.

The Final Crisis Darkseid was literally a god. His mere presence was causing all of reality to die, he was the archetype of all evil that ever existed, when people say "Darkseid is evil" it's not just describing him, it's describing evil itself, because not only is Darkseid evil, but evil is Darkseid.

The idea of him being the archetype behind all evil is also evident within the narrative arc: There was a war in heaven and evil was cast down to Earth, corrupted man and then banished from creation itself to an abyss beneath creation, he enslaved half the planet to his will with a sentence and did all of this whilst dying. His character arc is like that of Lucifer in Paradise Lost and the Beast from the Book of Revalation, and knowing Morrison, likely many other mythologies.

I personally don't see how anyone can view Morrsion's Darkseid as weak in power compared to any other version.

Is there just one Darkseid or does each universe have its own version?? Hmmmmm

Is the Apokolips attacking Earth 2 , the same as the JL faced?

There is only one Apokolips/New Genesis/ New Gods. Steppenwolf led the attack on Earth 2 and was stranded there.

 

[Hush]

Darkseid's portrayals in JL 1-6 and Final Crisis hurt the character more imo.

Why do you think JL 1-6 hurt him? The JL couldnt even beat him and had to activate a boom tube to get rid of him.

The DCAU version was actually pretty accurate and imposing I thought.

He was imposing to a point but after a while to me and I know many others thought he was shown as weak or rather just a Superman villain.

Spoiler

<H3>The New 52[edit]

Spoiler

In Justice League #1, Darkseid's name is invoked by a Parademon.[13] He is later mentioned again in Justice League #2,[14] and in Justice League #3 Darkseid makes his first appearance in the series, seen in a vision by Victor Stone after he is injured by an exploding Mother Box.[15] In the final pages of Justice League #4, Darkseid himself appears.[16] In Justice League #5, the League confronts him but they are overpowered by him, when he severely hurts Superman with his Omega Beams and breaks Green Lantern's arm.[17] Finally, in Justice League #6, Darkseid is driven out when Cyborg activates the invaders' Mother Boxes and Superman forces him through a Boom Tube. The incidents that occur in these issues make Darkseid the very first foe the newly formed League faces as a team. The issue also reveals Desaad and Steppenwolf, referring to Darkseid's daughter and their ceaseless search for her across countless worlds.[18] Darkseid's daughter escapes containment in Justice League of America's Vibe #7 after the dampeners on her cage are temporarily disabled.[19]
During the events leading up to Forever Evil, it is revealed that Darkseid also invaded Earth-3, the world of the Crime Syndicate. It is unknown as of yet if the planet was completely destroyed.[20]
Darkseid is also mentioned in World's Finest #1 by Power Girl as being involved in the events of the first issue of Earth 2 despite not being present in the actual book. Power Girl claims in issue 2 of World's Finest that the Darkseid seen in Justice League is the same one from Earth 2 when a picture is presented to them of Darkseid battling the Justice League, though Huntress is unsure if they are the same Darkseid despite Power Girl's claims. World's Finest #0 appears to confirm that there is a Darkseid that exists in the Earth 2 reality, but does not specify whether or not he was thrown into Prime Earth, as was the case with Power Girl and Huntress. His current whereabouts, if he is a separate incarnation of the character from the version which appears on Prime Earth during Justice League are unknown at present.

</H3>

Yeah this pretty much shows that he is One in the same.

Is there just one Darkseid or does each universe have its own version?? Hmmmmm
Is the Apokolips attacking Earth 2 , the same as the JL faced?

Yeah it's not stated outright but its heavily implied in his Villains month issue that he is the only DarkSeid.

And i remember Darkseid from the DCAU being shown as a "final boss" in almost all of his appearances, he was even the final threat fought in both, the superman and the JLU show.

Yeah he is that in the DCUA and when he comes back at the end of JLU the guy who beat him........Superman. This is a guy who should take like the big 7 to put him down like in JL 1-6.

I think the CS would've defended their Earth. Mainly because they worked so hard to get it under their control they wouldn't just give it up without a fight. Especially Owlman and Ultraman, they would've just give up without a fight.

That's logical but if they knew another earth was ripe for the taking then i think them invading our earth is more likely then trying to defends theirs because villains are cowards at their core and if someone is stronger they will back down and resort to different tactics.

To me it would just be a bait and switch technique and I don't want that. I want a major, significant villain that I believe would make the CS tremble in their boots like they do when they talk about it. Also, if the "hooded man" is Luthor, how is he the weapon to use against Darkseid?

I personally think the hooded man may be Orion.

You thought the DCAU version was better than Final Crisis Darkseid? The DCAU had Darkseid as an evil warlord. Yeah, a very powerful one, but at the end of the day, he's just a powerul alien of a species named the New Gods.

The Final Crisis Darkseid was literally a god. His mere presence was causing all of reality to die, he was the archetype of all evil that ever existed, when people say "Darkseid is evil" it's not just describing him, it's describing evil itself, because not only is Darkseid evil, but evil is Darkseid.

The idea of him being the archetype behind all evil is also evident within the narrative arc: There was a war in heaven and evil was cast down to Earth, corrupted man and then banished from creation itself to an abyss beneath creation, he enslaved half the planet to his will with a sentence and did all of this whilst dying. His character arc is like that of Lucifer in Paradise Lost and the Beast from the Book of Revalation, and knowing Morrison, likely many other mythologies.

I personally don't see how anyone can view Morrsion's Darkseid as weak in power compared to any other version.

There is only one Apokolips/New Genesis/ New Gods. Steppenwolf led the attack on Earth 2 and was stranded there.

Yes to all of this.

 

[HighFivingMF]

How burned out or charred is it?

Enough so that a group of villains powerful enough to rebuild everything decided "**** the whole thing" and found a new world to take over.

What menace forced the CS to run? Maybe the JL would be forced to fight it.

Pretty sure it's Darkseid, and whatever it is it isn't there anymore. They're worried about it finding them again.

How would their powers operate in that universe?

Superman would die I guess? Other than that I don't see why they'd be different. Just they wouldn't have many reasons to use them.

We haven't seen that world yet except in origin flashbacks.....

No, we've seen bits of it. It looks like a bombed out wasteland. And apparently it was in Pandora.

I would love to see Superman in the Earth 3 Metropolis interacting with pervert Jimmy and other weirded-out doblegangers....

They're all apparently dead though.

 

[Lord]

That's logical but if they knew another earth was ripe for the taking then i think them invading our earth is more likely then trying to defends theirs because villains are cowards at their core and if someone is stronger they will back down and resort to different tactics.

That's a very narrow view of criminality, and Batman's ideals of that started in the 30s, so in all these decades a lot more has been discovered. Point in case, these guys are though and most hardened criminals have a sence of honor, i don't see how they would flee at the first sight of trouble when they went into so much trouble in order to conquer the planet before, expecially considering they're taking another risk in coming into Prime-Earth.

Either way, criminals are people like us, but with different morals, some are cowards, while others are not, i wouldn't put them all on the same category.

 

[Cain]

You thought the DCAU version was better than Final Crisis Darkseid? The DCAU had Darkseid as an evil warlord. Yeah, a very powerful one, but at the end of the day, he's just a powerul alien of a species named the New Gods.

The Final Crisis Darkseid was literally a god. His mere presence was causing all of reality to die, he was the archetype of all evil that ever existed, when people say "Darkseid is evil" it's not just describing him, it's describing evil itself, because not only is Darkseid evil, but evil is Darkseid.

The idea of him being the archetype behind all evil is also evident within the narrative arc: There was a war in heaven and evil was cast down to Earth, corrupted man and then banished from creation itself to an abyss beneath creation, he enslaved half the planet to his will with a sentence and did all of this whilst dying. His character arc is like that of Lucifer in Paradise Lost and the Beast from the Book of Revalation, and knowing Morrison, likely many other mythologies.

I personally don't see how anyone can view Morrsion's Darkseid as weak in power compared to any other version.



There is only one Apokolips/New Genesis/ New Gods. Steppenwolf led the attack on Earth 2 and was stranded there.

Agreed. Final Crisis was the first event in decades to truly represent the 4th World concepts the way they should be presented and as Kirby really envisioned them. I really don't get how somebody could favor super nerfed DCAU Darkseid to the "real" Darkseid Morrison presented us but as they say, different strokes...