Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns Animated

[The Joker]

So do I. Every voice I've heard so far has been great.

 

[theMan-Bat]

I read it wrong so I guess thats why problem but I read good boy as the way an owner treats a dog when they do well.

Yeah, I know you read it that way, and you were coming from the mindset that the writer hated Superman, which of course would effect how you would view every part with Superman, so I explained and showed scanned examples from Frank Miller's own words so you could put that assumption to rest.

Superman may have helped the government in the past but you have to admit in this book he's portrayed as a guy who does what he's told by "the Man" when Superman we know does what he feels is right and does try to do it by the book but if its wrong we know he won't do it.

Superman is not doing things that he feels are wrong in Dark Knight Returns. He feels Batman is in the wrong.

Thats an interesting read but the way I read this book shows me he doesn't get Superman at all but again thats just me. Also read the Dark Knight Strikes Again, Superman is portrayed as even bigger idiot in that book to the point where its just ridiculous.

In Dark Knight Strikes Again Superman is still striving to maintain his law-abiding code of conduct and work alongside the people of Earth, rather than above them, and abide by the laws of the land ("the American way"), and wants to stop Luthor and Brainiac through legal means, but eventually he has to abandon his law-abiding code of conduct, and goes beyond legal methods in order to defeat Luthor and Brainiac and overthrow their totalitarian regime once and for all.

I still don't get why he felt the need to have Superman Batman fight at all to be honest. I feel it comes across as some need to have Batman just pummel that crap out of Superman. I don't think there's a need for them to fight unless it involves mind control, red k or something. Of course the Man of Steel fan in me knows that Batman wouldn't last 2 secs with Superman and I admit to it hurting my ego a little (maybe ego's the wrong would but still) that
Batman kicks the crap out of Superman infact the Brave and the bold episode did the Dark Knight Returns fight and bettered it in my opinion as it went down the way I think it should.

Superman just wanted to talk to Batman, was trying to reason with him, get him to give up, not beat him up. But Batman wouldn't give in, so it came to that final showdown. Of course Superman could easily defeat Batman if he really wanted to. Taking out Batman could be as easy for him as swatting a fly. He easily rips apart Batman's body armor and breaks three of Batman's ribs in Dark Knight Returns without trying to beat him up.

It is much more exciting and intriguing to see someone overcoming great obstacles than to watch somebody swat a fly. And Superman just wanted to talk to Batman, try to reason with him, get him to give up, not beat him up. Batman can defeat Superman with Kryptonite. The weakness to Kryptonite was created for a reason: because making Superman unbeatable and flawless gets dull. Infinitely powerful and perfect is infinitely boring. If he doesn't have to struggle, and isn't at risk, there's no tension, and conflict isn't possible.

Miller said he feels they wouldn't get along but I think they work better when they do. Jeph Loeb's run on Superman Batman showed how they would get along

I disagree. In order to form friendship people generally need to enjoy each others company and open up to each other and share opinions and agree on things or be prepared to have tense unfriendly arguing. I'm a fan of both Superman and Batman. As a reader I am entertained by tension and conflict between Bruce and Superman. It's their differences from each other that make them such interesting, individual characters to me.

 

[BH/HHH]

Yeah, I know you read it that way, and you were coming from the mindset that the writer hated Superman, which of course would effect how you would view every part with Superman, so I explained and showed scanned examples from Frank Miller's own words so you could put that assumption to rest.

Again I'm not covinced Miller likes Superman just because of that interview, I mean if he's working for DC I can't see him openly admitting he doesn't care for one their main characters.

Superman is not doing things that he feels are wrong in Dark Knight Returns. He feels Batman is in the wrong.

Fair enough been a while since I read it tbh

Superman just wanted to talk to Batman, was trying to reason with him, get him to give up, not beat him up. But Batman wouldn't give in, so it came to that final showdown. Of course Superman could easily defeat Batman if he really wanted to. Taking out Batman could be as easy for him as swatting a fly. He easily rips apart Batman's body armor and breaks three of Batman's ribs in Dark Knight Returns without trying to beat him up.

It is much more exciting and intriguing to see someone overcoming great obstacles than to watch somebody swat a fly. And Superman just wanted to talk to Batman, try to reason with him, get him to give up, not beat him up. Batman can defeat Superman with Kryptonite. The weakness to Kryptonite was created for a reason: because making Superman unbeatable and flawless gets dull. Infinitely powerful and perfect is infinitely boring. If he doesn't have to struggle, and isn't at risk, there's no tension, and conflict isn't possible.

Again been a while since I read it, but I don't agree that Superman been well as you put it unbeatable have you not read All Star Superman? yeah he's not unbeatable but he's incredibly over powered.

I disagree. In order to form friendship people generally need to enjoy each others company and open up to each other and share opinions and agree on things or be prepared to have tense unfriendly arguing. I'm a fan of both Superman and Batman. As a reader I am entertained by tension and conflict between Bruce and Superman. It's their differences from each other that make them such interesting, individual characters to me.

We will have to agree to disagree but I personally think Jeph Loeb's run on Superman Batman shows how well the friendship dynamic works and infact thay have plenty to talk about and get on just fine. Each to their own though.

Also just wanted to say again how impressed I am with your knowledge, you must have read a hell of alot of books.

 

[Brother Jack]

I didn't either. I imagined a more terrifying and vicious voice. A lot of the vocal performances so far sound quite dull to me. *shrugs*

Yeah, it doesn't really work that well for me either. I expected something more savage.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

Yeah, he sounds too smart and has little emotion.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Again I'm not covinced Miller likes Superman just because of that interview, I mean if he's working for DC I can't see him openly admitting he doesn't care for one their main characters.

Wow, you are persistent to assume that Frank Miller doesn't like Superman, despite what he says to the contrary. Frank Miller is very outspoken, speaks off the cuff, is very openly opinionated. DC couldn't control what Frank Miller said if they tried. He was given pretty much free reign at DC to do everything he wanted to do at the time. Even after DC President and Publisher Jenette Kahn called and wanted Frank Miller to change the scenes of Selina Kyle as a dominatrix prostitute in Batman: Year One, it was published the way Frank Miller wanted it anyway.

Again been a while since I read it, but I don't agree that Superman been well as you put it unbeatable have you not read All Star Superman? yeah he's not unbeatable but he's incredibly over powered.

He's dieing in All-Star Superman so that version is not exactly omnipotent, immortal, infinite, either. Keep in mind that this is a Dark Knight Returns thread, not an All-Star Superman thread. I want to keep this on the topic of Dark Knight Returns.

We will have to agree to disagree but I personally think Jeph Loeb's run on Superman Batman shows how well the friendship dynamic works and infact thay have plenty to talk about and get on just fine. Each to their own though.

We are going to have to agree to disagree because it's obvious at this point that no amount of back and forth arguing on our part is going to change the others point of view.

Also just wanted to say again how impressed I am with your knowledge, you must have read a hell of alot of books.

Thanks.

 

[AnneFan]

I think the voice is fine. His fast speech shows he means business and is pumped up about what he's saying. Harsh words like grind are emphasised and his voice rises when he mentions killing Batman.

 

[BH/HHH]

Wow, you are persistent to assume that Frank Miller doesn't like Superman, despite what he says to the contrary. Frank Miller is very outspoken, speaks off the cuff, is very openly opinionated. DC couldn't control what Frank Miller said if they tried. He was given pretty much free reign at DC to do everything he wanted to do at the time. Even after DC President and Publisher Jenette Kahn called and wanted Frank Miller to change the scenes of Selina Kyle as a dominatrix prostitute in Batman: Year One, it was published the way Frank Miller wanted it anyway.



He's dieing in All-Star Superman so that version is not exactly omnipotent, immortal, infinite, either. Keep in mind that this is a Dark Knight Returns thread, not an All-Star Superman thread. I want to keep this on the topic of Dark Knight Returns.



We are going to have to agree to disagree because it's obvious at this point that no amount of back and forth arguing on our part is going to change the others point of view.



Thanks.

Yeah I don't think we are gonna agree lol we'll have to agree to disagree.

Interestingly I reiread it last night and Superman wasn't treated as poorly as I remembered although when Batman's knocking the hell out of him, him saying remember I beat you etc I was just like what a bit of macho BS but with Miller saying he doesn't see them as friends I guess it makes sense.

Also did u read the script for the originally planned ending? Even though Superman pummels the hell out of Batman I think he'd have come off looking really bad if that ending had been used.

 

[Binker]

Let's end it here: Frank Miller doesn't hate Superman, heck he wore a Superman costume under his clothes when he was a kid. Why was Superman like this in DKR? Well, he had to be because of the story.

Put it like this: Miller loves the Golden Age of Superheroes (for example the Batman serials) and likes the Golden Age, anti-establishment and war patriot Superman. It's the post-Golden Age, big blue boyscout, Superman that he doesn't like, and if you think about it, DKR's Superman was a deconstruction of that. Plus, he cannot hate Superman because if he did, then why did Superman let Batman go when he realized he was alive? Because he agrees. And, even though the comic really sucks, DKSA gave us Superman glory scenes (not including the Superman/Wonder Woman love scene) and had Superman taking charge and help win the day.

"Look, Superman gave the finger to President Luthor when he told him to lose the fight. Wow, Miller must hate Superman." See how that doesn't make sense now.

Another way of looking at the DKR Superman, for me, is the New Frontier Superman; he was a government agent, but he was naive even though he had a reason for doing what he did. And there was a number of clues as to why DKR Superman was the way he was. And no, I'm not counting ASB&R, not because it's a bad book, but because it's not finished (and probably never will).

But in the end, Miller doesn't hate Superman.

 

[BH/HHH]

Let's end it here: Frank Miller doesn't hate Superman, heck he wore a Superman costume under his clothes when he was a kid. Why was Superman like this in DKR? Well, he had to be because of the story.

Put it like this: Miller loves the Golden Age of Superheroes (for example the Batman serials) and likes the Golden Age, anti-establishment and war patriot Superman. It's the post-Golden Age, big blue boyscout, Superman that he doesn't like, and if you think about it, DKR's Superman was a deconstruction of that. Plus, he cannot hate Superman because if he did, then why did Superman let Batman go when he realized he was alive? Because he agrees. And, even though the comic really sucks, DKSA gave us Superman glory scenes (not including the Superman/Wonder Woman love scene) and had Superman taking charge and help win the day.

"Look, Superman gave the finger to President Luthor when he told him to lose the fight. Wow, Miller must hate Superman." See how that doesn't make sense now.

Another way of looking at the DKR Superman, for me, is the New Frontier Superman; he was a government agent, but he was naive even though he had a reason for doing what he did. And there was a number of clues as to why DKR Superman was the way he was. And no, I'm not counting ASB&R, not because it's a bad book, but because it's not finished (and probably never will).

But in the end, Miller doesn't hate Superman.

I don't think Miller does hate Superman anymore however I don't see why Superman must be the way he is in the book just because its Batman's book. If your gonna change him you might aswell just use a different character.

I haven't read All Star B&R what's it like? Is it in continuity with TDKR's?

 

[Drz]

I don't think Miller does hate Superman anymore however I don't see why Superman must be the way he is in the book just because its Batman's book. If your gonna change him you might aswell just use a different character.

Christ, you've read so many different takes on Superman, but you still continue with your attitude towards this take simply because you and a whole lot of people think Miller hates Superman and loves the god damn Batman. C'mon now.

 

[BH/HHH]

Christ, you've read so many different takes on Superman, but you still continue with your attitude towards this take simply because you and a whole lot of people think Miller hates Superman and loves the god damn Batman. C'mon now.

No need to get irate I'm entitled to my own opinion. I've said before I can take this as en elseworlds story but I don't like Millers take on Superman I really feel he's in there so Batman can just beat him up again. Also the fact I'm not the only one who thinks Miller has dislike for Superman should tell you something.

Infact re-reading the book I feel the same as I did before where the first half is good the 2nd half isn't and it drags on too much.

 

[Drz]

You're entitled to your opinion like many others, but as pointed out it is under the assumption that Miller dislikes a character, even tho the evidence shows completely againts it. Superman is there because he is iconic and represents something, not to mention it becomes believable that if anyone should allow Batman to live and fool the government, it would be Superman. Sure, you could have used Hal Jordan, but Miller had other plans for him.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Criticism is one thing, BH/HHH, I am sure everyone is well aware of your assumptions of Frank Miller's opinion of Superman by now. Repeatedly complaining repetitively is going to eventually provoke someone into an emotional response. If your intent is to provoke people into angry and frustrated responses, that is trolling, and is not allowed on these boards. Trolling also includes intentionally posting misleading statements, "I don't think Miller does hate Superman anymore. Interestingly I reread it last night and Superman wasn't treated as poorly as I remembered", you claimed...Then after that you say to Drz, "I really feel Superman's in there so Batman can just beat him up again. I'm not the only one who thinks Miller has dislike for Superman. Infact re-reading the book I feel the same as I did before."

This thread is about the Dark Knight Returns two-part film. Not about Holy Terror or Dark Knight Strikes Again or All-Star Batman & Robin or BH/HHH's assumptions of Frank Miller's opinion of Superman, or anything else.

As C. Lee said,

This thread is for discussing the upcoming animated movie THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.

If you want to spend your time discussing something else...then go elsewhere and discuss it. Do not derail this thread with all the off topic discussion.

 

[BH/HHH]

I'm not trolling at all, I was infact replying to another poster cause they were saying how I said Miller hates Supwerman yet I said I changed my mind on that. Having a dislike for and hatuing are too different things, I said I think he has a dislike not that he doesn't like Superman.

Also your not in charge here what's wrong with talking about our opinions of the book or if All Star B&R is in the same universe? We're talking about things that do involve the movie.


End of the day ppl should respect others opinions and not get arsey cause I have an opinion on the book that many many others do. I wasn't trying to start an argument at all infact I was done n then asked again so I stodd my ground on my opinion nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[theMan-Bat]

This thread created by Drz will tell you all about All-Star Batman & Robin/Dark Knight: Boy Wonder and is the proper thread to discuss that Frank Miller project...http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=335689

This thread is for reporting news about and discussing the Dark Knight Returns two-part film, not about Holy Terror or Dark Knight Strikes Again or All-Star Batman & Robin or your assumptions of Frank Miller's opinion of Superman.

No, I'm not a moderator, however, C. Lee is. Another poster on this thread was repetitively arguing about Frank Miller's Holy Terror book, which Frank Miller said was also conceived to be taking place in the Dark Knight Universe, but isn't about the Dark Knight Returns film, so I reported that and C. Lee removed those Holy Terror posts from this thread.

I already answered your questions about why Superman is the way he is in the Dark Knight Returns book and explained how being legally government-sanctioned and obeying the U.S. President wasn't really out of character or any major change for the patriotic, law-abiding establishment figure with a long history with U.S. government agencies and obeying the U.S. President (Superman #107 (1964) "Superman's Mission for President Kennedy"). I've also explained and showed scanned examples from Frank Miller's own words calling Superman a great character, etc. I've also said we are going to have to agree to disagree because it's obvious at this point that no amount of back and forth arguing on our part is going to change the others point of view.

 

[BH/HHH]

This thread created by Drz will tell you all about All-Star Batman & Robin/Dark Knight: Boy Wonder and is the proper thread to discuss that Frank Miller protect...http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=335689

I created this thread for reporting news about and discussing the Dark Knight Returns two-part film, not about Holy Terror or Dark Knight Strikes Again or All-Star Batman & Robin or your assumptions of Frank Miller's opinion of Superman.

No, I'm not a moderator, however, C. Lee is. Another poster on this thread was repetitively arguing about Frank Miller's Holy Terror book, which Frank Miller said was also conceived to be taking place in the Dark Knight Universe, but isn't about the Dark Knight Returns film, so I reported that and C. Lee removed those Holy Terror posts from this thread.

I already answered your questions about why Superman is the way he is in the Dark Knight Returns book and explained how being legally government-sanctioned and obeying the U.S. President wasn't really out of character or any major change for the patriotic, law-abiding establishment figure with a long history with U.S. government agencies and obeying the U.S. President (Superman #107 (1964) "Superman's Mission for President Kennedy"). I've also explained and showed scanned examples from Frank Miller's own words calling Superman a great character, etc. I've also said we are going to have to agree to disagree because it's obvious at this point that no amount of back and forth arguing on our part is going to change the others point of view.

Thanks for the link

Again I want to point out I didn't say hate I said A dislike that is all.

But as I said above I was posting in regards to another poster who had questioned me. I don't think its right to say I'm trolling when the post wasn't in relation to you.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Again I want to point out I didn't say hate I said A dislike that is all.

But as I said above I was posting in regards to another poster who had questioned me. I don't think its right to say I'm trolling when the post wasn't in relation to you.

Your persistent repetitively redundant statements about hating how Superman is portrayed in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and making an obvious contradiction with your reply to Drz, is why I began to suspect you were just trolling. You told me, "Interestingly I reread it last night and Superman wasn't treated as poorly as I remembered," you told Binker, "I don't think Miller does hate Superman anymore," appearing to have actually changed your opinion, then you told Drz, "I really feel Superman's in there so Batman can just beat him up again. I'm not the only one who thinks Miller has dislike for Superman. Infact re-reading the book I feel the same as I did before." First you saying you changed your mind upon rereading it and that "Superman wasn't treated as poorly as I remembered, I don't think Miller does hate Superman anymore," and then you say you feel the same way you did before upon rereading it, your feeling before being that he hates/dislikes Superman and that "Superman's in there so Batman can just beat him up."

You've repeatedly said essentially the same thing over and over, that you hate how Superman is portrayed in Dark Knight Returns...

March 6th:

I prefer the first half of the book to the second. I hate how Superman is potrayed in this book.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=22715191&postcount=3

September 5th:

I have to admit though I hate the way Superman is portrayed in this book and I think he's made to look like an idiot.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24270275&postcount=327

September 5th:

Superman may have helped the government but he is not a government puppet as portrayed in this.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24270709&postcount=329

September 5th:

I just don't feel its my Superman in that story and i am irritated by how he comes across

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24272325&postcount=332

September 7th:

I hate it when the president calls him a good boy.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24285687&postcount=341

September 8th:

Again I'm not covinced Miller likes Superman

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24288695&postcount=349

September 8th:

this book shows me he doesn't get Superman at all. I love Superman so much I hate to see him treated like this. I just don't like the way the Dark Knight Returns version of Superman is treated as I feel Miller misunderstood the character.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24287905&postcount=347

September 10th:

I don't see why Superman must be the way he is in the book just because its Batman's book. If your gonna change him you might aswell just use a different character.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24296467&postcount=353

September 10th:

I don't like Millers take on Superman I really feel he's in there so Batman can just beat him up again. I'm not the only one who thinks Miller has dislike for Superman. the 2nd half isn't good and it drags on too much.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24297315&postcount=355

I'm not trying to say everyone has to agree with me. To each his own. It's good to share our opinions with other fans of these characters so we can understand each other. That's one of the things these boards are for. In this case you'd already made your opinion clear months ago on the first page of this thread. You are being repetitively redundant as you already explained in your first post on March 6th: "I prefer the first half of the book to the second. I hate how Superman is potrayed in this book." Going on and on about it started looking to me like you are trying to bait fans of Dark Knight Returns into a flame war.

 

[BH/HHH]

Your persistent repetitively redundant statements about hating how Superman is portrayed in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and making an obvious contradiction with your reply to Drz, is why I began to suspect you were just trolling. You told me, "Interestingly I reread it last night and Superman wasn't treated as poorly as I remembered," you told Binker, "I don't think Miller does hate Superman anymore," appearing to have actually changed your opinion, then you told Drz, "I really feel Superman's in there so Batman can just beat him up again. I'm not the only one who thinks Miller has dislike for Superman. Infact re-reading the book I feel the same as I did before." First you saying you changed your mind upon rereading it and that "Superman wasn't treated as poorly as I remembered, I don't think Miller does hate Superman anymore," and then you say you feel the same way you did before upon rereading it, your feeling before being that he hates/dislikes Superman and that "Superman's in there so Batman can just beat him up."

You've repeatedly said essentially the same thing over and over, that you hate how Superman is portrayed in Dark Knight Returns...

March 6th:
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=22715191&postcount=3

September 5th:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24270275&postcount=327

September 5th:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24270709&postcount=329

September 5th:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24272325&postcount=332

September 7th:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24285687&postcount=341

September 8th:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24288695&postcount=349

September 8th:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24287905&postcount=347

September 10th:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24296467&postcount=353

September 10th:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24297315&postcount=355

I'm not trying to say everyone has to agree with me. To each his own. It's good to share our opinions with other fans of these characters so we can understand each other. That's one of the things these boards are for. In this case you'd already made your opinion clear months ago on the first page of this thread. You are being repetitively redundant as you already explained in your first post on March 6th: "I prefer the first half of the book to the second. I hate how Superman is potrayed in this book." Going on and on about it started looking to me like you are trying to bait fans of Dark Knight Returns into a flame war.

I respect what your saying but I disagree with what your saying I was questioned by others so I backed up by my opinion if u thought I was trying to stir something up then you should have just left it, I was just backing up what I said.

 

[Destructus86]

Not sure what the general consensus is about the animation, but I think it looks fantastic in the new clip. Love the lighting.

While I hate this particular story...I don't think anyone can deny how great the animation looks!

 

[BH/HHH]

While I hate this particular story...I don't think anyone can deny how great the animation looks!

The animation is superb and very faithful

 

[theMan-Bat]

if u thought I was trying to stir something up then you should have just left it

If I was certain that you were trolling then I would have reported you to a moderator, not just left it. Instead I questioned you, giving you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Peter Weller to appear at Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1 West Coast premiere

Peter Weller has agreed to appear at the West Coast premiere of Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1, on Sept. 24 at The Paley Center for Media in Los Angeles. Weller will participate in the red carpet pre-screening media interviews as well as the post-screening panel discussion.

http://www.examiner.com/article/peter-weller-to-appear-at-batman-the-dark-knight-returns-west-coast-premiere?cid=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[theMan-Bat]

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns – Part 1, Fourth New Clip & Four New Images

http://www.dccomics.com/videos/batman-the-dark-knight-returns-part-1-nightmare

Again, faithful to the source material with the nightmare chemical used on Two-Face's henchmen.

http://www.flicksandbits.com/2012/09/11/batman-the-dark-knight-returns-part-1%E2%80%B2-new-clip-four-images/31266/

 

[theMan-Bat]

Peter Weller to appear at Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1 West Coast premiere

Peter Weller has agreed to appear at the West Coast premiere of Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1, on Sept. 24 at The Paley Center for Media in Los Angeles. Weller will participate in the red carpet pre-screening media interviews as well as the post-screening panel discussion.

http://www.examiner.com/article/peter-weller-to-appear-at-batman-the-dark-knight-returns-west-coast-premiere?cid=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter