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Geoff Johns, is he DC Films New Hope?

Are you optimistic about Geoff Johns's new presence in DC Films?

  • Yes, I'm optomistic for the future post Suicide Squad

  • Nope I've abondened all hope, reboot the whole thing

  • Wait and see


Results are only viewable after voting.
In terms of tone, I'd like to see the DCEU imitate the Marvel characters' TV series on Netflix. They manage to be fairly gritty but with enough idealism and hope that they don't descend into dourness or nihilism.
 
In terms of tone, I'd like to see the DCEU imitate the Marvel characters' TV series on Netflix. They manage to be fairly gritty but with enough idealism and hope that they don't descend into dourness or nihilism.

I agree, but I also think that's unfair. The Netflix shows are great. But they also get 13 hours to tell a story and about a whole year dedicated to piecing that story together.

The DC films have to get the point across in 2-3 hours in that same tone.

How much would be cut out if season 1 of Daredevil were condensed to 3 hrs.? Would Matt still come off as idealistic in 3 hrs. as he would after 13 hrs.?

This is just editing. Think of the difference in off camera logistics.

You can't just say copy the Marvel/Netflix tone and assume eveything will be willy nilly. For all intents and purposes they're already similar in tone.
 
What do superheroes do? They save people? Check. They fight crime? Check. You should rewatch the movie if you think DCCU hasn't given us superheroes already.

I freaking hate the mentality of "you can only do things one way". Yes, let's wait for them to comment on their fav candy bar and make jokes during fight scenes so we can really call them superheroes.

I need to learn how to post meme's so I can give you a round of applause.
It seems people want DCEU to be Marvel and then when that happens they will be criticized for copying.


Bringing it back to this thread's point (before it turned into another discussion about how Man of Steel was totally awesome) I would say this is a major issue that needs to be corrected.

Marvel famously has had issues with certain directors. There have been high profile incidents of directors angrily walking away from the franchise with bad things to say about the studio. Too much oversight. Meddling behind the scenes. Forcing the director to compromise their vision. It's earned the company bad press and Kevin Feige has even said that he agrees they're far more difficult to work with than the usual studio.

But here's the thing about having some sort of oversight for your directors: you make sure brand integrity is protected. That is one of the biggest things Johns needs to address in this position.

The selling point WB used to contrast the DCEU with the MCU was that they allow the directors a greater range of creative freedom to do whatever the heck they want. That they are a studio for artists. The problem is, sometimes artists have stupid ideas. That's why editors exist in literary circles. That's why the New Hollywood era of film making eventually died out; people at the top realized giving a bunch of money and zero accountability to hot shot directors and letting them do whatever they wanted wasn't always a smart idea.

Sure, sometimes you get the Taxi Driver or Star Wars. But then sometimes you also get Heaven's Gate.

Kinda sorta off topic but thank you! The internet seems to have blind hatred for studios and think directors are always right. I can't stand that and think there should be a balance between the 2. Directors gave us Star Wars but they also fave us Jupiter Ascending; some believe art shouldn't be regulated but if you want to make money you have to appeal to the most people.
With DC its more confusing: BvS UC was better received than what the studio edited and released; at the same time SS was changed after BvS came out and it was hated by critics but had a better box office run and the GA loved it more.
 
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I agree, but I also think that's unfair. The Netflix shows are great. But they also get 13 hours to tell a story and about a whole year dedicated to piecing that story together.

The DC films have to get the point across in 2-3 hours in that same tone.

How much would be cut out if season 1 of Daredevil were condensed to 3 hrs.? Would Matt still come off as idealistic in 3 hrs. as he would after 13 hrs.?

This is just editing. Think of the difference in off camera logistics.

You can't just say copy the Marvel/Netflix tone and assume eveything will be willy nilly. For all intents and purposes they're already similar in tone.

It's not really a matter of quantity of hours dedicated to something, it's proportionality. What percentage of an average Daredevil season is spent on the characters expounding on their beliefs? Try using the similar percentage in a film.

And tone is about more than just what the characters say. It incorporates lighting and action too: Daredevil refusing to kill his opponents tells you something about his morals.
 
Proportionality ok. So Daredevil season 2 had Matt either struggling with himself or Castle for the first half of the season. Episode 3 had a whole 20 mins dedicated to Matt giving out exposition on his ideology while Frank countered every point.

That's a lot of time dedicated to showing and telling that Matt is "good". That's why it worked.

If season 2 were condensed to 3 hrs. it would've gotten about as much sreentime as Alfred chiding Bruce got. Why so little? Because if half of this hypothetical film had been about debating ideologies there wouldn't be enough time to follow through on story threads like the Blacksmith, Elektra, Stick, the Hand, Frank in prison with Fisk without those feeling like small tacked on vinettes.

That's why Lois subplot feels "tacked on" despite being integral to the story. There wasn't enough time to tell the story they wanted to.
 
The Lois subplot felt tacked on because it didn't reveal anything important the audience couldn't already guess and she hardly interacted with the other main characters while investigating. The whole bullet subplot didn't even have much impact on the main plot, since the only thing that happened after she discovered the truth was she got captured.
 
Right. Someone jokingly summed it up as "The entire point of Lois' plot is to uncover the shocking, earth-shattering, mind-bending twist that Lex Luthor is the bad guy in a Superman movie."
 
The Lois subplot felt tacked on because it didn't reveal anything important the audience couldn't already guess and she hardly interacted with the other main characters while investigating. The whole bullet subplot didn't even have much impact on the main plot, since the only thing that happened after she discovered the truth was she got captured.

Yup. And then (if I recall correctly) Lex was pretty much arrested for unleashing Doomsday anyway, rather than the whole bullet thing.
 
Johns is there to help smooth things out abit. Things are good but he is there to just really guide this dceu better because probably nobody on earth knows these characters at the moment better than Johns.
Its funny that johns loves/approves the Martha moment/idea which got dumped on alot and fans now say he knows what to do. Jeeeesh....make up your minds people.
 
Johns is there to help smooth things out abit. Things are good but he is there to just really guide this dceu better because probably nobody on earth knows these characters at the moment better than Johns.
Its funny that johns loves/approves the Martha moment/idea which got dumped on alot and fans now say he knows what to do. Jeeeesh....make up your minds people.

Maybe financially, but MOS is still the closest thing to a critically received movie and even that was divisive by fans. (general audience not withstanding)

Personally, I'm not going to let any Studio off the hook until they consistently put better quality movies out.
 
Right. Someone jokingly summed it up as "The entire point of Lois' plot is to uncover the shocking, earth-shattering, mind-bending twist that Lex Luthor is the bad guy in a Superman movie."

:lmao:
 
Johns is there to help smooth things out abit. Things are good but he is there to just really guide this dceu better because probably nobody on earth knows these characters at the moment better than Johns.
Its funny that johns loves/approves the Martha moment/idea which got dumped on alot and fans now say he knows what to do. Jeeeesh....make up your minds people.

Not everyone says and believes that, so it's a comment that rings hollow to me.
 
i LOVE what Johns said about how the studio was wrong about "dark and gritty", BUT i hope the "acceleration" of hope and optimism doesnt mean they rushed and/or rewrote stuff from justice league just to give it a more light-hearted approach for the sake of it and not in a way that helps the story and the characters.
 
Did Johns say that? I've just gotten a new respect for him.
 
Did Johns say that? I've just gotten a new respect for him.

yup.

"Mistakenly in the past I think the studio has said, ‘Oh, DC films are gritty and dark and that’s what makes them different.’ That couldn’t be more wrong. It’s a hopeful and optimistic view of life. Even Batman has a glimmer of that in him. If he didn’t think he’d make tomorrow better, he’d stop."
 
The original dream of creating TDK inspired realistic/dark/gritty DC Movies that where also deep and philosophical about heroes. And got Nolan like BoxOffice/critic love was a cool one.


But as it turned out was just not feasible
 
It's feasible if the films are seen as being done properly by the vast majority.
 

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