Ghost Rider IS Being Screened

[zanos]

~sigh~

I wrote :


It's not just a question of flames looking cool enough. It's a question of the flames not looking realistic enough. Why the heck would anyone release a movie of character who's skull is on fire if the flames look half assed ?

Dude ppl know it's a movie. As for the flames they looked fine to me. A studio isn't going to have a meeting on whether or not the flames are flamey enough and then push a film back a year because of it. This isn't Spider-man. Sony has an entire lineup of films. They're not resting their entire company on whether or not ppl will think his flames are realistic enough or not.

This is the screenshot of the teaser trailer of ghost rider :

Compare that flames now :

See the difference ?
Btw that teaser trailer of Ghost Rider was released in May '06 , which just goes to show you that those the type of fire VFX that you'd get if the movie was released in the summer.

Of course I see the difference. You're comparing 2 completely different scenes.

The flames weren't what they expected , so they had to start over.

http://www.aintitcool.com/?q=node/30673


http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_d4j_ezine&task=read&page=1&category=1&article=845&Itemid=28

Uh no. MSJ came on this very board and was upset that the film was being pushed back and said he had been counting the days and minutes to it's release. Does that sound like someone who was desperately unhappy with the look of his finished film? Not that it would matter he doesn't have the power to delay any film anyway and Sony certainly wasn't worried about the effectiveness of the cgi in just one of their countless films.

 

[matrix_ghost]

Dude ppl know it's a movie. As for the flames they looked fine to me. A studio isn't going to have a meeting on whether or not the flames are flamey enough and then push a film back a year because of it. This isn't Spider-man. Sony has an entire lineup of films. They're not resting their entire company on whether or not ppl will think his flames are realistic enough or not.

While it may be a movie , that still doesn't stop them from complaining. See countless posts at the hype alone with compplaints such as "the matrix vfx looked fake , SR featured too many shots of superman being to far off , the CGI in 300 looks fake etc etc ".
It doesn't make sense the Sony wouldn't do such a thing. For startters it's their second comic book property after Spiderman and they want to make some good money out of it.
Hence it's 120 million dollar budget. You don't make a 120 million movie with half assed VFX.
Money doesn't grow out of anyone's ass , and Sony is no exception. They want to bring in the cash therefore delivering quality movies is something they need to do.
Not doing that means 120 million down the drawn. Their line up of films has the same problem. By you're logic they wouldn't care less whether Spiderman would bomb anyone cause their line up of films can compensate a 250 million loss.

Of course I see the difference. You're comparing 2 completely different scenes.

Alright then. Since you aren't able to tell the difference between an early VFX shot and a completed VFX shot , here's the same scene progressing on

Happy now

Uh no. MSJ came on this very board and was upset that the film was being pushed back and said he had been counting the days and minutes to it's release. Does that sound like someone who was desperately unhappy with the look of his finished film? Not that it would matter he doesn't have the power to delay any film anyway and Sony certainly wasn't worried about the effectiveness of the cgi in just one of their countless films.

'course he was upset over the fact that it was pushed back. Sooner or later you want to finish up on something . you don't want to stay forever working on a movie. While MSJ was disappointed that the movie was pushed back A) because Sony didn't want to compete it in the busy summer '06 and B) because the VFX weren't that great , he still was happy that the studio didn't force him to release the movie .

The delay was also due to the fact that certain scenes were greenlit by Sony such as the Ghost Rider vs Helicopter sequence.
http://www.mania.com/51440.html

Nicolas Cage opened up to Sci Fi Wire about the reason for the GHOST RIDER delay.

"They're just tweaking certain things toward the end," Cage said in the interview. "The reason why the movie was delayedI know that's been on people's mindsis there were some effects that finally got authorized by the studio that [writer-director] Mark [Steven Johnson] really wanted, and they're pretty big, and it took time to put them together and design them. So we had to delay it. I think it's good, because it's something we really wanted to fight for, with Ghost Rider going into battle with the helicopter."

 

[matrix_ghost]

btw , these are the words of MSJ when it was announced that the movie was pushed back till '07
Posted : 12-15-2005, 08:41 AM

I know, guys. It's even harder for me. Remember, I've been on this movie since Summer '03! It's incredibly frustrating to wait an additional 7 months to see G.R. released after we've all been counting down the days (and the minutes). However, the truth is Presiden'ts Day Weekend is a better release date for the movie. As most of you know, we were originally scheduled to be released in Aug. But after Sony saw the movie they loved it and moved us right into the middle of summer '06. I was thrilled with the date, ready to compete with the biggest movies coming. But, as you all know, there hasn't been a trailer or a poster for our movie yet. I refuse to rush the look of Ghost Rider to make a date or trailer release. It's not worth it. G.R. deserves better. That's one of the reasons we're behind schedule. Next summer is going to be a monster with movies such as Superman, X-Men 3, Pirates 2, etc. All of them are either remakes or sequels. They have built in audiences, built in awareness. Ghost Rider is unknown to the general public -- darker and weirder (but cooler!) and it needs a longer lead time to properly build up awareness to support the release on the scale Sony has planned. Every weekend big movies come out and disappear because there's another one right behind it waiting on the runway (look at Aeon Flux from last weekend). Sony doesn't want that to happen to Ghost rider. I know that doesn't make the waiting any easier, but I can promise you that it will be worth it in the end. We'll be releasing a First Look at Ghost Rider, a teaser, a trailer, the toys, etc. in the upcoming months. There will be events and tie ins and video games and all of the things this movie needs to be a success. I'm seeing this stuff now and it's fantastic. That's why I'm so excited. Because I know what the movie will be. And I know Sony is going to pull out all the stops to give the movie the release it deserves. You guys know how much I appreciate your support. You've been on this ride with me. I know this sucks, but I'm going to ask that you ride with me a little longer. I promise it will be worth the wait.

At that time things were still being done with the earlier programs they developed and when they saw that the VFx weren't up to scratch they had to start all over .
As i posted my previous posts with links. As time progressed Sony greenlit some more scenes for the movie

 

[zanos]

While it may be a movie , that still doesn't stop them from complaining. See countless posts at the hype alone with compplaints such as "the matrix vfx looked fake , SR featured too many shots of superman being to far off , the CGI in 300 looks fake etc etc ".

Those are the rantings of your everyday fanboy on here who scrutinize every facet of their favorite comicbook film not the general public who could care less about the nuances of cgi effects.

It doesn't make sense the Sony wouldn't do such a thing. For startters it's their second comic book property after Spiderman and they want to make some good money out of it.
Hence it's 120 million dollar budget. You don't make a 120 million movie with half assed VFX.

It's their second comic book property but it's just another film in their long library of upcoming films soon to be released. As for whether the effects are half assed or not you really have no idea so maybe you should just drop that.

Money doesn't grow out of anyone's ass , and Sony is no exception. They want to bring in the cash therefore delivering quality movies is something they need to do.
Not doing that means 120 million down the drawn. Their line up of films has the same problem. By you're logic they wouldn't care less whether Spiderman would bomb anyone cause their line up of films can compensate a 250 million loss.

They could care less about quality films. It's about making films that make money and that's all it's about. They may care more about Spider-man because it's their big cash cow but let's not delude ourselves into thinking that Ghostrider is some special property that Sony execs are holding close to their hearts when they go to sleep at night. It's just another film to them.

Alright then. Since you aren't able to tell the difference between an early VFX shot and a completed VFX shot , here's the same scene progressing on

Happy now

Actually no because while that maybe the same scene it's not in sequence. You're off a bunch of frames so the scene isn't identical. Now this is not to say the scene wasn't improved upon but are ppl in the theater going to be analyzing the flames in a scene that lasts maybe 3 seconds? Of course not. Geez.

'course he was upset over the fact that it was pushed back. Sooner or later you want to finish up on something . you don't want to stay forever working on a movie. While MSJ was disappointed that the movie was pushed back A) because Sony didn't want to compete it in the busy summer '06 and B) because the VFX weren't that great , he still was happy that the studio didn't force him to release the movie .

Not from what I read. He may have felt that way in hindsight because this gave him more time to make any little improvements here and there but it certainly wasn't his initial reaction on here and this simply proves my point that the delay was in no way related to MSJ wanting to add effects into the film or Sony not being impressed with the flames of all things.

The delay was also due to the fact that certain scenes were greenlit by Sony such as the Ghost Rider vs Helicopter sequence.
http://www.mania.com/51440.html

With 8 months to release I'm pretty sure any and all scenes would have been greenlit eventually. This is a non issue.

 

[Advanced Dark]

Zanos go to the thread of a movie you're looking forward to or that you actually like. I'm sorry Joss left your dream project but please don't take it out on us.

 

[Vartha]

What's amazing is the difference between THIS

to this

 

[Advanced Dark]

^ I remember that early test footage. This kind of stuff takes a long time and it seems like they just threw all that out and started over. It's trial and error and it was tougher than they thought. Look at the flames on the Torch in FF. They don't look nearly as good as Ghost Rider even from what I've seen in FF2 but I'm sure they'll update that now.

 

[Advanced Dark]

Wow speak of the Devil...

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?id=40150

12:00 AM, 14-FEBRUARY-07




Cage Uses Head In Ghost

When viewers of Nicolas Cage's upcoming Ghost Rider see him transform into a demonic avenger with a flaming skull, they will be looking at Cage's actual skull, director Mark Steven Johnson told SCI FI Wire. Johnson decided to base the Ghost Rider's signature noggin on Cage's actual head after an early version of the image appeared on the Internet and garnered scathing reviews from fans.

"There is so much negativity on the Internet for a director or writer when you read what people say, but sometimes it's right," Johnson said. "We put the skull up almost a year and a half ago, and people wrote that the skull looked fake and terrible. It was like a free test screening, in a way. The skull is the main character, so if he doesn't look right, you're sunk from the very beginning. At least you have got to get that right."

To fix the problem, the production X-rayed Cage's head, then scanned the X-ray into a computer, where artists used it as the basis for the character. "Isn't that weird? That's all Nic there," Johnson said. "That's Nic's skull. ... Those are his movements, and that's his voice a bit treated and altered."

Getting the skull right didn't deal with another problem with the computer-generated character: the lack of a face. "Eyes, the teeth, the tongue, the lips, even the wrinkles, ... give expression," Johnson said. "But we don't have any of that, just a blank slate. So the fire was important to his personality."

That required a new computer program to generate the digital flames, producer Gary Foster said. "When we started, it was only at 75 percent, and they had to go in completely from scratch to rewrite and reanimate the fire, and that took time," he said. But, he added, ultimately "we got it to 100 percent." Ghost Rider opens nationwide on Feb. 16. —Mike Szymanski

 

[Vartha]

lol I must be psychic

 

[Advanced Dark]

Look the guy who started this all is back:

http://blogs.nypost.com/movies/archives/2007/02/ghost_whiners.html

February 13, 2007

<H5>Ghost Whiners

Well, my invitation to Thursday night's premiere of "Ghost Rider'' at the E-Walk has finally arrived...and I think I'll wait until after it opens. My intrepid colleague Kyle Smith, though, will be on hand for the first screening open to reviewers for major newspapers like The Post, which of course comes too late for opening day reviews (except from the junket "press'') to appear in print.
Just how bad a critical thrashing can Sony be expecting? Well, Scott Weinberg at Rotten Tomatoes compiled a handy list of films that were shielded from opening-day critical scrutiny (no screening or very late screenings) last year and last month, along with the percentage of favorable reviews recorded for each one at RT. Except for "Snakes on a Plane'' and "Crank,'' the studios were correct in expecting the worst.

</H5>
What a grumpy bastard. LOL

 

[Amphibatheatre]

And what exactly did you accomplish by posting that "Cage Uses Head in Ghost" article in Lumenick's comment section? Are you again trying to push the idea that the film was just finished and that was the real reason for the last minute Thursday night screening? Haven't we established that if the film has been able to be shown to the European markets and U.S theater owners that there is no reason for Sony to have been unable to show the film to major critics in a timelier fashion.

as a reminder since you seem to keep forgetting...

Hey guys,
Avi Arad and Gary Foster here.

We just completed a fantastic international tour where the film screened all around Europe.

Theater owners across the country saw it last week and were thrilled with the film and expect big attendance.

...so, please stop trying to push the "tweaking the f/x to the last possible moment" angle to explain the Thursday night critic screening.

 

[Retroman]

What's amazing is the difference between THIS

I think they did this back in the mid 1990s.You have to thank god that the movie did not get made back then because the visual effects would not be as great as stuff that they can do now in 2007.

I'm also happy the movie got pushed back from it's original summer '06 release date. Movies like these are not only expensive but very time consuming to get effects etc. right.So it's nice for a change to see a big studio like Sony give the director and crew the extra time to deliver the best end product possible. Fox could learn a thing or two from that approach.

 

[zanos]

I think they're still tweaking those effects as of right now.

 

[ultimatefan]

I´m sorry to say this guys, I want to like this movie, I think MSJ´s a great guy, but all this sounds like damage control... Doing a screening in the last minute is almost as bad a sign as not doing one at all. Movies where the studio´s confident there will be a positive reaction that will help promote it for the audience are screened several days before release. Late or non-existent screenings show fear, or that they don´t care cuz their core audience doesn´t care about reviews... That argument works for low budget horror movies targeted at male teens, but Sony´s obviously selling GR as a movie for everyone - and it has to, given the 120m price tag... I´m not saying the movie sucks, I´ll see it and judge it for myself, but this is not a good sign. Not really.

 

[Paradoxium]

I´m sorry to say this guys, I want to like this movie, I think MSJ´s a great guy, but all this sounds like damage control... Doing a screening in the last minute is almost as bad a sign as not doing one at all. Movies where the studio´s confident there will be a positive reaction that will help promote it for the audience are screened several days before release. Late or non-existent screenings show fear, or that they don´t care cuz their core audience doesn´t care about reviews... That argument works for low budget horror movies targeted at male teens, but Sony´s obviously selling GR as a movie for everyone - and it has to, given the 120m price tag... I´m not saying the movie sucks, I´ll see it and judge it for myself, but this is not a good sign. Not really.

Some truth in this, Batman Begins was screened almost a month prior to release to generate hype. Another recent and BIG Sony film - Casino Royale - was screened weeks earlier. Just go through RT to see the dates of some of the reviews. In both cases, the films had favorable reviews.

 

[Spidey 2007]

I think they're still tweaking those effects as of right now.

haha no, MSJ said it was completely done a couple weeks ago... i dont know the exact date.

 

[CAH]

Wow...I should've been here earlier...oh wait, no I shouldn't have...man I hate all this "these effects suck" craptastical messages and review, etc. If these people talking about the film don't freaking appreciate the fact that MSJ and Co. took a whole year's delay to actually perfect the fire effects and such (and they ARE perfect...they're absolutely gorgeous...GR needs that Oscar)...then they don't deserve to see the film. Simple as that.

CAH

 

[Redvelvetdragon]

Actually, the Cage uses head article answered a question for me. I wondered if they used his actual skull, which is what I would have done in MSJ's place.

As for special effects....I'm old enough to know movies before block buster special effects and the emergence of said special effects. I was 11 when the original Star Wars came out in 77 and those special effects to us were just amazing. Seeing stuff in GR now it all seems so magical. I'm willing to suspend my critical eye to enjoy the movie. It just seems that a lot of younger people today are so acclimated to big over the top special effects and computers and technology that somehow they lose that appreciation. It's hard for me to explain. Its stuff like, "Hey, that microsecond of special effect, that really sucked, the movie is ruined for me now." Holy cow.

I'm the first one to admit I'm no film expert and that I'm no techie/special effects expert either. I'm just going to go and enjoy the movie. *shrugs* ....and then write fan fiction ROTFLMAO.

 

[3 Dev Adam]

I wondered if they used his actual skull, which is what I would have done in MSJ's place.

Erm... that wouldn't, you know, KILL Nic Cage in the process?

 

[Redvelvetdragon]

LOL, sorry I wasn't clear. I meant take images of his skull and use that. Bwahahaa

 

[Advanced Dark]

Some truth in this, Batman Begins was screened almost a month prior to release to generate hype. Another recent and BIG Sony film - Casino Royale - was screened weeks earlier. Just go through RT to see the dates of some of the reviews. In both cases, the films had favorable reviews.

Batman was ready a month before.

 

[Amphibatheatre]

Batman was ready a month before.

And according to MSJ Ghost Rider was finished on Jan. 23. That's five days shy of a month until it's Feb, 16th opening.

 

[The Ones]

And according to MSJ Ghost Rider was finished on Jan. 23. That's five days shy of a month until it's Feb, 16th opening.

Well, Batman was ready 1 month before, i think that means all the prints were made and were sent off for release, MSJ only finished GR less than a month before intended release, and they had to rush all the prints out.

 

[Amphibatheatre]

Well, Batman was ready 1 month before, i think that means all the prints were made and were sent off for release, MSJ only finished GR less than a month before intended release, and they had to rush all the prints out.

Theater owners across the country saw it last week and were thrilled with the film and expect big attendance.

That was posted on 02-07-2007. So, the film had it's prints ready a week before Feb. 7.

We just completed a fantastic international tour where the film screened all around Europe.

That too was posted on Feb. 7th. They had just completed the international tour by the 7th. How long do you think it takes to do an international tour? A week...longer than a week? The point is they had enough prints to show theater owners across the country and the European markets by Feb 1 at the latest.

&#8220;Hey guys. Wow, so much speculation! It always amazes me how good news (like yesterday&#8217;s review) just sits there while (incorrect) bad news spreads like wildfire! Here&#8217;s the truth: The movie is being screened for the press tomorrow on the 8th as we have our junket on Thursday and Friday of this week. Then the movie is being screened for the CRITICS next Thursday morning so that their reviews can come out the following day, on Friday the 16th. The only critics we&#8217;ve missed are the advanced press/weeklies So there will be reviews on opening day! Sony is contacting the Post for a correction. Sometimes you have critic screenings a week in advance but we weren&#8217;t ready for that (as I&#8217;ve said before, we took it down to the wire). Honestly, I don&#8217;t care. But for the record, the only press to see the movie so far has been this site. And you can imagine the deluge of calls and e-mails I received from other sites yesterday! They were pissed that SHH got a first look!

Sorry to keep bringing up the same quotes, but Foster and Arad contradicted the bolded part of MJS's above statement in the third post of this very thread. And just too clarify once again, I have no stake in the overall quality of the Ghost Rider film. It's the shady handling of the critic screenings by Sony that has caused me concern. I do hope you all enjoy the film because I have no interest in degrading a film based on a character that you are a fan of. I'm simply continuing to point out the contradictions coming from the studio and producers.

 

[Advanced Dark]

Amphitheatre is this something important enough to get confrontational about??? Really. Don't you have better things to do?