Goku VS. Goku

[Keollyn]

Goku never survived planet destroying attacks.

Look at the Majin Vegeta vs ssj2 Goku fight,they were destroying all the mountains around them with the shockwave of their punches.

And lets just stop it,I don't know a thing about Seiten Goku and you don't know much about dbz Goku as well,so lets stop it.okay?

Edt:lest just leave this thread dead,okay?
It's all my fault,I brought it up,but I still don't thin kthat Seiten goku can beat Goku,but lets just stop it,okay?

So I apologize and let's leave the thread dead.

I know he didn't. So you pointing that out means nothing.

Umm... since you mention it so much... how about you show me that. Someone said that they didn't do that in the manga. And we know what's the hierachy of canon in the DBU.

Actually, I know more about Goku than you. I mean, you believed he could go FTL at one point, you believed he could survive a planet buster, and you seriously believe that Kid Goku is some deity. Heck, you were about to say that energy doesn't matter much in DBZ with an example using USSJ. How can you tell me that I know nothing when you seem to know nothing yourself (and the information you do know is always twisted to suit you). Gotta love Buutenks the Hypocrite.

Doesn't matter to me. You wasn't presenting a good argument anyway. All I was getting is "And don't say he can create heaven and earth" over and over. Definitely not enough reason to bother with this.

 

[buutenks]

I know he didn't. So you pointing that out means nothing.

Umm... since you mention it so much... how about you show me that. Someone said that they didn't do that in the manga. And we know what's the hierachy of canon in the DBU.

In this forum even the movies are canon,in this ofrum you could use verything you want.

But I'll still say it,ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta destroying mountains in the anime doesn't contradict the manga that much and the whole battle wasn't shown in the manga.so the anime just showed more of the fight,so it doesn't contradict anything.

And in the manga they were destroying the whole rock formations around them and the whole ground was ripping apart and mountains were starting to fall apart and everything was shaking.

Actually, I know more about Goku than you. I mean, you believed he could go FTL at one point, you believed he could survive a planet buster, and you seriously believe that Kid Goku is some deity. Heck, you were about to say that energy doesn't matter much in DBZ with an example using USSJ. How can you tell me that I know nothing when you seem to know nothing yourself (and the information you do know is always twisted to suit you). Gotta love Buutenks the Hypocrite.

First I never said that kid Goku is a god or something,I just said that kid Goku can defeat gods,you just twisted what I said.

Second,when I said that Freeza can move FTL I was going by that Vegeta couldn't sense him,but there I was wrong because when I looked Vegeta couldn't see him,not sense him,so that's why I think that they can't move FTL in battle only in the Buu saga.

Third I said that in dbz energy doesn't mean everything and I was trying to show with the Ussj example that even if you have more energy you still can be slower,but you can ignore that because that's not a complete form,that's why Goku didn't used it.

And when I said that ssj Goku can survive the explosion of a planet,I was going by that he was more durable then Freeza,that ssj Trunks could cut his finger with his sword even when he went all out,but this was proven wrong because in the Viz manga ssj Trunks never said tha he will go all out and that he took blasts that could destroy Feeza.

But now I don't think anymore.

Doesn't matter to me. You wasn't presenting a good argument anyway. All I was getting is "And don't say he can create heaven and earth" over and over. Definitely not enough reason to bother with this.

I normally do that when I don't really care if your character wins or my character wins.
When I argue over if their planet busters then there I say good things,but when I argue like Goku vs Supermna,I don't really care.
But if it's a YYH vs Dbz then there I argue and I mean what I say and I think before I post.

And I know alot about dbz,it's just that sometimes I want it to be my way so I don't look if their any flaws.
I was ignoring other things when I said thta Freeza can fight FTL when he never did and that ssj Goku can survive the explosion of a planet when he never did,so these two things I wanted to be myway,but now I wil not let my fanboysm get in my way,I'll go by what feats they did.

So sorry for how I've been in the dbz mega thread.

 

[buutenks]

There's a thing about SOMEONE's self-proclaimation, and then there's God's proclaimation. Cell saying that he's a solar system buster isn't proof. If someone who had the power to bust SS, or a godly being, said Cell had that power... then his statement could come off as fact without proof. But since he was the only one that proclaimed this power, you got nothing to go off. This is a BIG difference from story narrative. The story said that Seiten Taisen has the raw aura of the Earth and Sky for centuries, and thus, is proof. This is HIS background. Just like Cell being a combination of ALL the great fighters on Earth. I wouldn't deny Cell's background if he didn't go around and prove it right away. If the story said he's a combination of great fighters on Earth, than he is. It's as simpe as that.

Even without the narrative, we had God and even a Bosatsu mention that Seiten Taisen's power is beyond their comprehension. Hyperbole falls on Cell's statement, truth falls on the story narrative.

So? Is Boo relevant to this subject?

What feats before Vegeta? Did you see anyone else destroy an EARTH-based planet? And no, the moon =/= the earth.... no matter HOW you look at it. And what facts stated he can? Where are these DAMN FACTS COMING FROM?! Someone screams in anger and say they'll destroy the earth and that's fact that they can? Utter bullsh1t. I can get enraged at a tank pilot that just blew up my house and say I'll destroy the tank... does that automatically mean I can? No. For Vegeta's case, he couldn't to the earth. He didn't have the power to bust earth YET.

I'd be tasting my own medicine if you didn't kill your own post with so many ******ed statements like that (See bold). How does one say things like that and believe it.

Look at this:

You see the part where Kai-Oo-shin tells how Buu destroyed several hundered planets,now after Kai-Oo-shin says this,Vegeta says in his mind that we saiyans could do that.
He said it in his mind,which means that it's true,that the saiyans have destroyed planets,so that's what backsup Vegeta's statement in the saiyan saga and Vegeta meant it,so if you believe it then good,if you don't then that's your opinion and I wont try to change it.

 

[Keollyn]

In this forum even the movies are canon,in this ofrum you could use verything you want.

But I'll still say it,ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta destroying mountains in the anime doesn't contradict the manga that much and the whole battle wasn't shown in the manga.so the anime just showed more of the fight,so it doesn't contradict anything.

And in the manga they were destroying the whole rock formations around them and the whole ground was ripping apart and mountains were starting to fall apart and everything was shaking.



First I never said that kid Goku is a god or something,I just said that kid Goku can defeat gods,you just twisted what I said.

Second,when I said that Freeza can move FTL I was going by that Vegeta couldn't sense him,but there I was wrong because when I looked Vegeta couldn't see him,not sense him,so that's why I think that they can't move FTL in battle only in the Buu saga.

Third I said that in dbz energy doesn't mean everything and I was trying to show with the Ussj example that even if you have more energy you still can be slower,but you can ignore that because that's not a complete form,that's why Goku didn't used it.

And when I said that ssj Goku can survive the explosion of a planet,I was going by that he was more durable then Freeza,that ssj Trunks could cut his finger with his sword even when he went all out,but this was proven wrong because in the Viz manga ssj Trunks never said tha he will go all out and that he took blasts that could destroy Feeza.

But now I don't think anymore.




I normally do that when I don't really care if your character wins or my character wins.
When I argue over if their planet busters then there I say good things,but when I argue like Goku vs Supermna,I don't really care.
But if it's a YYH vs Dbz then there I argue and I mean what I say and I think before I post.

And I know alot about dbz,it's just that sometimes I want it to be my way so I don't look if their any flaws.
I was ignoring other things when I said thta Freeza can fight FTL when he never did and that ssj Goku can survive the explosion of a planet when he never did,so these two things I wanted to be myway,but now I wil not let my fanboysm get in my way,I'll go by what feats they did.

So sorry for how I've been in the dbz mega thread.

Even when a forum doesn't put a rule against it, you should never use non-canon sources as legit information.

But it wasn't shown in the manga? So it still doesn't mean that they did. We can't have our cake and eat it to. You can't say that the manga doesn't present something, but use it as if it did, and then argue against me when I use WHAT is presented in the manga that isn't necessarily a feat, but more of an establishment of said character.

Limited Goku was destroying rock formations with his opponents on SEVERAL occasion and Homura can shred the ground by just floating over it.... And both limited Goku and Homura are FAR more weaker than Seiten Taisen.

But you can't prove that Kid Goku can defeat gods. You see the irony there? I can't prove Seiten Taisen destroying a world because he never did, and you can't prove Kid Goku beating gods because he never did. You can't do something and then try and blast me when I do the same.

That's why I said at one point. Even though you can drive me up the wall (which is fun, by the way), you aren't on the level of Phenomenol in which you can't change your opinion. That's a great trait that ALL debaters should have.

Goku is battle smart. He'll not use imperfection in his fight. But sometimes his battle ego > battle smarts (See letting Cell fight Gohan)

It's the simple fact that Cell's kamikaze blast would truthfully put him at less energy than Goku (remember that he lost Jūhachigō. At that point, he definitely had less energy than Goku... proven when Cell wasn't outclassing Goku by much when they fought and Goku even gave him a Senzuu). So if what you were saying earlier was true... the more ki you have, the more durable you should be. So if Cell's lesser ki explosion killed Goku, then this proves that he's more durable, yes, but not on the level of a planet buster.

Well we all want our beloved character to be stronger than they are (or at least present us with more feats). Heck, I feel that way with Xenogears. I notice how you curse Toriyama for not being more detailed with DBZ... and I can understand where you're coming from. It would have helped more in the debates if the world knew what he was trying to get at on certain points. But since the series is over, there's nothing we can do. But once again, at least you can change your opinion. You're one of the better Pro-DBZ debaters I know.

Ah, the mega thread? That was just heated debating. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[buutenks]

Even when a forum doesn't put a rule against it, you should never use non-canon sources as legit information.

But it wasn't shown in the manga? So it still doesn't mean that they did. We can't have our cake and eat it to. You can't say that the manga doesn't present something, but use it as if it did, and then argue against me when I use WHAT is presented in the manga that isn't necessarily a feat, but more of an establishment of said character.

Limited Goku was destroying rock formations with his opponents on SEVERAL occasion and Homura can shred the ground by just floating over it.... And both limited Goku and Homura are FAR more weaker than Seiten Taisen.

But you can't prove that Kid Goku can defeat gods. You see the irony there? I can't prove Seiten Taisen destroying a world because he never did, and you can't prove Kid Goku beating gods because he never did. You can't do something and then try and blast me when I do the same.

That's why I said at one point. Even though you can drive me up the wall (which is fun, by the way), you aren't on the level of Phenomenol in which you can't change your opinion. That's a great trait that ALL debaters should have.

Goku is battle smart. He'll not use imperfection in his fight. But sometimes his battle ego > battle smarts (See letting Cell fight Gohan)

It's the simple fact that Cell's kamikaze blast would truthfully put him at less energy than Goku (remember that he lost Jūhachigō. At that point, he definitely had less energy than Goku... proven when Cell wasn't outclassing Goku by much when they fought and Goku even gave him a Senzuu). So if what you were saying earlier was true... the more ki you have, the more durable you should be. So if Cell's lesser ki explosion killed Goku, then this proves that he's more durable, yes, but not on the level of a planet buster.

Well we all want our beloved character to be stronger than they are (or at least present us with more feats). Heck, I feel that way with Xenogears. I notice how you curse Toriyama for not being more detailed with DBZ... and I can understand where you're coming from. It would have helped more in the debates if the world knew what he was trying to get at on certain points. But since the series is over, there's nothing we can do. But once again, at least you can change your opinion. You're one of the better Pro-DBZ debaters I know.

Ah, the mega thread? That was just heated debating. Nothing wrong with that.

Well no,the anime is canon,the movies and GT aren't canon.

And most dbz fans don't have the manga,so it's hard for them to say what's filler and what's not.

And the anime is in continuity,so it's canon.
So you could use it.

Edit:Every anime is canon,for e.g. the YYH anime is canon even though at the makai tournament somethings happened what didn't happened in the manga.
And on most forums they have two diiferent types of characters,the anime version and manga version.
Even at the cbr forums there is nor rule where it says that filler scenes aren't canon,if it's something in continuity it's canon.

This with the filler scenes and all that were brought up by members,not by mods.
The dbz anime is in continuity so it's canon.
And if you look at the cbr forums,the members use the anime version or the manga version and they even ask wich version.
So anime is canon.

 

[The Kid]

Goku