Golden Globe Nominations

[The Senator]

Well movies aren't often talked about so early, and The Dark Knight was one of the most anticipated movie before he died. It isnt like people were gonna miss it anyway. LIke I said, maybe 2 million the death contributed. Not more. Look at the spider-man movie! It had worse actors, a less popular superhero, less popular and less famous characters, by most peoples opinions a worse movie, and The Dark Knight is "cooler". Still Spider-Man made 400M US, 800M WW. And that one didnt have an actor that died in it. Neither did any of the top100 all time box-office. Not right before the movie atleast.

But Batman Begins only made $205 million domestically (and this was AFTER Spider-Man was released), so to say that people would have seen this anyway because it was a superhero movie is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Laderlappen]

Spider-Man's success was attributed to its own individual factors. Jurassic Park's success was attributed to its own individual factors. Any film's success is attributed to its own individual factors. So saying "Such and such film made such and such, at such and such time, and it didn't have such and such going for it" is not an argument.

So did TDK. Factors you people seem to ignore. Come one, you dont think Spider-man and Batman are comparable?

 

[The Senator]

While I agree the passing of Heath's death helped TDK box office and interest wise, it's factors I think is over exaggerated. Ledger died in Jan, the film was played in July. By that time the shock and talk would have ****e off a good bit with the public. If the film was released in March, then I'd agree with your statement. You got to remember, people were going back for repeat viewings over and over. Heath's death got many people in the seats, BUT the same people went back for second, third and forth viewings. TDK was also coming off a Begins, which got a lot of the public interested in Batman again.

If Heath didn't die, TDK wouldn't have made $500 million, but it would have made an amount, not too far off 500.

When The Dark Knight was released, almost every major review in the country mentioned Ledger's passing. It may have been months since his death, but his death was brought up once again when the film was released. I was away for most of July and without access to a lot of news sources, but I remember watching a few entertainment news outlets on television and Heath's death was always mentioned.

Heath's death hovered above this film and he alone was billed as the star. His performance was great, don't get me wrong, but it was billed as his last hurrah and that certainly gave it an extra $150 million or so. I doubt it would have made more than Iron Man did in its first weekend had Ledger survived and there wasn't as much hype from late January through July.

 

[Cmill216]

So did TDK.

Yes. Factors that include the death of its rising star villain.

Come one, you dont think Spider-man and Batman are comparable?

No. They're not.

Spider-Man was released in 2002. It was a lighter, more joyful film in the wake of September 11th. It was the perfect time for that film to be released. It' success has no correlation with The Dark Knight. None. Natta. Zippo.

 

[Laderlappen]

But Batman Begins only made $205 million domestically (and this was AFTER Spider-Man was released), so to say that people would have seen this anyway because it was a superhero movie is a bit of a stretch.

Batman Begins is different. It doesnt have any big villians, it doesnt have much action, and its alot slower than pretty much any super-hero movie. The Dark Knight is more like Batman89 which was the 6th(!) biggest box-office sucess when it came out.

 

[The Senator]

Do you honestly believe 2/3 saw the movie in theatres JUST because Heath Ledger died? You cant honestly believe that? You know how much his death contributed to the box-office? 2 million maybe, and even that is a stretch. If you dont believe me, check out the movie 'Soul Men'. It has 2 people recently dying. Its has only made 11 million. Or check out any movie of any actor dying right after it was made.

People put his face on avatars of 2 reason: His performance in TDK, and as a tribute. It has nothing to do with box-office.

No. I think less than a third of the audience saw the film because Heath had died and it was his last major film role.

Like I said, I doubt it would have made much more than $350 million had he survived, because there wasn't that extra hype surrounding it. Heath's death brought in more of an audience. That audience loved it and saw it multiple times. But I doubt those extra audience members would have wanted to see it on opening weekend (or at all) had Ledger survived.

 

[The Senator]

Batman Begins is different. It doesnt have any big villians, it doesnt have much action, and its alot slower than pretty much any super-hero movie. The Dark Knight is more like Batman89 which was the 6th(!) biggest box-office sucess when it came out.

But it had Batman in it, so I don't necessarily see how it is all that different. Spider-Man 3 had Venom in it and it didn't exceed the previous two movies in that series, box office-wise. I don't think there's much of a connection between villains and box office success.

 

[The Senator]

I just CAN'T wait to see what you all say (Im talking to those who say Heath's death was the cause of TDK's sucess.) when The Imaginarium of Doctor...Whatever its called makes 158+ million and 500+ million domestic as well...because that was Heaths last performance...should be HUGE.

Yeah, except no one is arguing that the film was successful only because of Heath's death. His death contributed to The Dark Knight's box office success but it still would have made hundreds of millions of dollars had he survived-- just not $500 million, and probably not even $400 million.

Terry Gilliam has a record for making awful movies which get released in about one hundred or so theaters and make as much money as I earn in a year. The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus may make $15 million or so because it is Ledger's final film appearance.... but it isn't an action movie, it doesn't have a central character in it people are familiar with, and it isn't much of a family film, either. Heath's death was only a fraction of the reason why The Dark Knight was as successful as it was.

 

[Laderlappen]

Yes. Factors that include the death of its rising star villain.

Sure for about 1 %. For the other 99, it was the action, the look, it being a bloody Batman movie, blockbuster, and Heath's Joker which became the most popular superheromovie performance and character of all time. All parodys, halloween, youtube videos, talk shows etc. shows big effect on the audience.

Spider-Man was released in 2002. It was a lighter, more joyful film in the wake of September 11th. It was the perfect time for that film to be released. It' success has no correlation with The Dark Knight. None. Natta. Zippo.

compare it to the sequel then.
Its the exact same audience, they are both superhero movies(pretty mcuh all superhero movies has been a huge sucess, even the crappy ones)

 

[Cmill216]

I'm just going to repeat what I said earlier:

No one is saying The Dark Knight wasn't going to be a big hit. That's a given.

But Heath Ledger's passing generated far more buzz than the film was generating by itself, and that buzz translated into an even bigger box office performance than anyone could have imagined. This film had hype building back in January as the press began to swell after Heath's passing. Prior to that, no one outside of the small minority of film nerds like us were salivating over this film.

The Dark Knight was just another really anticipated blockbuster contending for the top summer prize. When Heath Ledger died, it became the must-see event of 2008.

 

[StorminNorman]

But Batman Begins only made $205 million domestically (and this was AFTER Spider-Man was released), so to say that people would have seen this anyway because it was a superhero movie is a bit of a stretch.

Batman Begins's biggest impact on the General Audience was felt in DVD and TV sales.

The Dark Knight was projected to be the biggest movie of the summer before Heath's death, Heath's dead simply helped in making it just silly.

Its impossible to tell how much impact Heath's death played, however. TDK did as well as it did because of Heath - that can't be argued. His performance was already getting Oscar Buzz before his death and it was getting buzz outside of simply Batman fanboys.

The Dark Knight was going to be a 400+ Million Dollar film and a critical darling no matter if January happened or not.

 

[Cmill216]

The Dark Knight was projected to be the biggest movie of the summer before Heath's death, Heath's dead simply helped in making it just silly.

^ Point.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

Begins was coming after Batman & Robin. Plus I don't even remember great marketing for it. TDK was a fantastic film with people seeing it multiple times, which gave the film most of it's push.

 

[The Senator]

Batman Begins's biggest impact on the General Audience was felt in DVD and TV sales.

The Dark Knight was projected to be the biggest movie of the summer before Heath's death, Heath's dead simply helped in making it just silly.

I'm not so sure about that. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was actually projected by many to be the highest grossing film of 2008, with The Dark Knight in second or third, depending on who's list you went by. In fact, I don't think anyone predicted it would make more than $300-350 million before Ledger died. And it probably wouldn't have, but with Heath's death came more publicity for the film, and the controversy surrounding the potential impact the Joker role had on his overall behavior may have also contributed directly to that hype.

 

[The Senator]

Begins was coming after Batman & Robin. Plus I don't even remember great marketing for it. TDK was a fantastic film with people seeing it multiple times, which gave the film most of it's push.

It came out seven years after Batman & Robin. Americans don't have an attention span long enough to remind them how awful Shrek 2 was, I don't really think they would have remembered or even associated Begins with Batman & Robin.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

It came out seven years after Batman & Robin. Americans don't have an attention span long enough to remind them how awful Shrek 2 was, I don't really think they would have remembered or even associated Begins with Batman & Robin.

Oh, no one forgets Batman & Robin

 

[StorminNorman]

I'm not so sure about that. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was actually projected by many to be the highest grossing film of 2008, with The Dark Knight in second or third, depending on who's list you went by. In fact, I don't think anyone predicted it would make more than $300-350 million before Ledger died. And it probably wouldn't have, but with Heath's death came more publicity for the film, and the controversy surrounding the potential impact the Joker role had on his overall behavior may have also contributed directly to that hype.

Indiana Jones was never going to beat The Dark Knight. I know that certain trades and whatever had this predicted, but it was all based on the flawed concept that Indiana Jones mattered to the largest movie demographic - teens and young adults. These same trades also underestimated the success of Begins simply because it had less-than-overly amazing Box Office numbers.

I was following The Dark Knight since before there was a Dark Knight, I knew the buzz, I knew the predictions about the box office. The buzz for The Dark Knight started before Heath's death.

 

[The Senator]

Oh, no one forgets Batman & Robin

So, I assume you didn't see Batman Begins in theaters because Batman & Robin was awful?

 

[StorminNorman]

It came out seven years after Batman & Robin. Americans don't have an attention span long enough to remind them how awful Shrek 2 was, I don't really think they would have remembered or even associated Begins with Batman & Robin.

See this is where you are absolutely wrong. Batman and Robin DID impact Batman Begins. WB under marketed Begins and there was still a large misconception that Batman Begins was apart of the 90's film franchise. Most famously was the Who Wants to be a Millionaire Question that stated Batman Begins was a prequel.

Again, Batman Begins real popularity was not seen until it hit DVD and HBO. People who saw it in theaters showed it to friends who saw it wasn't like the others and there was suddenly a market for Batman films where there wasn't before.

 

[StorminNorman]

So, I assume you didn't see Batman Begins in theaters because Batman & Robin was awful?

No, but a lot of people who don't follow Superhero films and thus didn't know the difference did.

 

[Laderlappen]

No. I think less than a third of the audience saw the film because Heath had died and it was his last major film role.

Like I said, I doubt it would have made much more than $350 million had he survived, because there wasn't that extra hype surrounding it. Heath's death brought in more of an audience. That audience loved it and saw it multiple times. But I doubt those extra audience members would have wanted to see it on opening weekend (or at all) had Ledger survived.

It would. Because it WAS by far the most hyped movie of the year. On IMDb they have something called 'The Movie Meter' which shows the 10 most visited movie(and tv shows) pages on imdb of the week. These are mostly new movies or movies coming out in a week or 2. A half year before Heath died it was on this top 10 every week. Sometimes it was on the top actually. The first movie trailer(released before Heath's death) was one of the most viewed videos on Yutube of the month it was released.

Lets have a poll here. How many here saw it just because Heath died?

 

[The Senator]

Indiana Jones was never going to beat The Dark Knight. I know that certain trades and whatever had this predicted, but it was all based on the flawed concept that Indiana Jones mattered to the largest movie demographic - teens and young adults. These same trades also underestimated the success of Begins simply because it had less-than-overly amazing Box Office numbers.

I was following The Dark Knight since before there was a Dark Knight, I knew the buzz, I knew the predictions about the box office. The buzz for The Dark Knight started before Heath's death.

But Heath's death put the film over the top and gave it that extra financial push. There really is no way to determine how successful the film would have been had he survived; but the film achieved an audience which would not have sat through a comic book movie without Ledger's death involved in the equation.

As I said, the insider predictions were that Indiana Jones would have been the top grossing film of the year. I don't recall how much it made, except that it was over $300 million... and I strongly doubt The Dark Knight would have achieved any more than $300-350 million without the surge in hype in late January.

 

[StorminNorman]

It would. Because it WAS by far the most hyped movie of the year. On IMDb they have something called 'The Movie Meter' which shows the 10 most visited movie(and tv shows) pages on imdb of the week. These are mostly new movies or movies coming out in a week or 2. A half year before Heath died it was on this top 10 every week. Sometimes it was on the top actually. The first movie trailer(released before Heath's death) was one of the most viewed videos on Yutube of the month it was released.

Lets have a poll here. How many here saw it just because Heath died?

'

Thats a flawed poll. You can't ask people on SUPERHEROHYPE if they were going to see the SUPERHERO movie of the year whether or not an actor died.

There is also a ridiculous percent of people on this board that saw Punisher War Zone for crying out loud.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

So, I assume you didn't see Batman Begins in theaters because Batman & Robin was awful?

I did. I'm an Internet ****e. Some people I knew didn't. When I went with my Dad he taught it was a prequel.

 

[StorminNorman]

But Heath's death put the film over the top and gave it that extra financial push. There really is no way to determine how successful the film would have been had he survived; but the film achieved an audience which would not have sat through a comic book movie without Ledger's death involved in the equation.

And I said the same thing - this was a 400 Million Dollar film that became a 600 Million Dollar film.

Though I think it is also wrong to state that Ledger's death is the only way this film transcended comic fans. This was a Superhero film of the scope and quality not yet seen. The sheer quality of the film (the Best Picture nomination to be from the Oscars is not a product of Ledger's Death) should not be ignored.

As I said, the insider predictions were that Indiana Jones would have been the top grossing film of the year. I don't recall how much it made, except that it was over $300 million... and I strongly doubt The Dark Knight would have achieved any more than $300-350 million without the surge in hype in late January.

Again, I know exactly what the Insider Predictions were and there were going to be just as wrong with a live Heath than there were with a dead one. The Dark Knight had buzz before Heath's Ledger - greater buzz than Indiana Jones. Batman's movie franchise was more relevant, the film was better, the film appealed to a great demographic, the film had more memorable performances and instant Pop culture appeal (again, even without Ledger's death). Ledger's death did not contribute 300 Million Dollars in extra revenue.