Greatest Marvel Villain of ALL time

[Franklin Richards]

Still doing it. Thanks. I tried to throw in the smiley so you would get that I wasn't too insulted. But now it just keeps growing exponentially. Thanks. Now I am insulted. Mission accomplished.

And I have read that much Doom and I have as much right to interpret his actions as much as you. Just because I believe that Hamlet is crazy and didn't really see a ghost doesn't make my interpretation invalid.

Your opinions are not canon. Have an open mind and try to engage in some friendly debate without insulting the opposition.

I'm done with this.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Still doing it. Thanks. I tried to throw in the smiley so you would get that I wasn't too insulted. But now it just keeps growing exponentially. Thanks. Now I am insulted. Mission accomplished.

And I have read that much Doom and I have as much right to interpret his actions as much as you. Just because I believe that Hamlet is crazy and didn't really see a ghost doesn't make my interpretation invalid.

Your opinions are not canon. Have an open mind and try to engage in some friendly debate without insulting the opposition.

I'm done with this.

Yeah, I tend to insult people quite often. I blame it on being a Beaumonte.

Either way, most of Doom isn't left up to interpretation like Hamlet was. Hamlet was written in a way where you couldn't tell the difference, and much of it could go either way, where Doom was written blatantly.


Most comic writers aren't exactly squires of knowledge and originality, after all.

As for an open mind? Mine's plenty open. But thoughtful debate has to be thrown as bait before I decide to actually have a debate.


Give me some well thought out thoughts about how Doom ISN'T only after power, and I'll definitely be willing to respond in much more sensible manner.

 

[freemadison]

Malcom X did NOT believe blacks were superior

As a member of the NOI (Nation of Islam), Malcolm X toured the country giving speeches that often spouted the rhetoric of Elijah Muhammad (who typically stated that whites are "blue-eyed devils".

Here's a quote from Playboy magazine:

"Thoughtful white people know they are inferior to Black people. Even Eastland knows it. Anyone who has studied the genetic phase of biology knows that white is considered recessive and black is considered dominant" (The Playboy Interview: Malcolm X, interviewed by Alex Haley, Playboy Magazine, May 1963).

Of course, he later let go of his resentment, hate, and black supremacist idealogies after he converted to Orthodox Islam and grew into one of the greatest (and more tolerant) men who fought for equal rights.

Give me some well thought out thoughts about how Doom ISN'T only after power, and I'll definitely be willing to respond in much more sensible manner.

How about this?

but he has always cared about order. Latveria is a monument to that. "This Land is Mine" is a great example. I'm not saying that part of his desire didn't stem from the fact that Zorba run the place and he didn't but to deny the desire to make his home a better place is just naive.

And I'll quote wikipedia (again, i know....not the greatest source in the world), in the Doctor Doom page under Goals:

"When the Fantastic Four returned from the alternate Earth to which they had been shunted following their confrontation with the sentient psionic being Onslaught, Doctor Doom remained behind and conquered that planet, which he dubbed "Planet Doom". On both occasions he led the world into a unparalleled prosperity and eventually abdicated, finding the task of world management tedious.

In a short-lived series of comics set in the year 2099, Doctor Doom was transported to that time from some point in our current near-future and upon seeing the decrepit state of Latveria he becomes the President of the United States in order to curb the power of the megacorporations based there that were oppressing his people. As a side effect he began improving the quality of life in the U.S. as well, re-instituting democracy and an effective non-corrupt police force.

Doctor Doom's plans are fueled by his ego and his conviction that he is not only capable of world domination, but also worthy and deserving of it. While he places little value on the lives of others, he also follows a code of honor. Several times he has struck bargains with various characters in the Marvel Universe, and has upheld those bargains. He is a cruel and ruthless dictator, willing to deliver swift and cruel punishments, yet he also treats his subjects fairly and at times has even put himself at risk to protect his kingdom and subjects."

So while I do believe that Doom is after power, I don't believe that he ONLY wants to rule the world for the sake of his ego but for the order and prosperity that he believes he can provide the world.

Besides, the best villians aren't PURE evil (Mephisto a boooring villian). They live in shades of gray.

And if you knew genius', they tend to operate without pure focus.

Well I wouldn't know anything about that...so i'll have to assume that you do.

 

[rodhulk]

Galactus, and only Galactus.

 

[Zoken]

What is this "Small amount of Mystic knowledge" stuff. Doom is the runner up for Sorcerer Supreme isn't he?

 

[rodhulk]

What is this "Small amount of Mystic knowledge" stuff. Doom is the runner up for Sorcerer Supreme isn't he?

Yes, I would say he is. I still wouldn't count out Apoc for that title either, though. But the DR. would prob be next in line.

 

[Zoken]

If I wanted to see some seriously messed up stuff, I would take a pre-M-Day david Alleyne and shove him in a room with Dr. Doom, Reed Richards, Tony Stark, and Dr. Strange.

 

[rodhulk]

If I wanted to see some seriously messed up stuff, I would take a pre-M-Day david Alleyne and shove him in a room with Dr. Doom, Reed Richards, Tony Stark, and Dr. Strange.

....... and the Leader.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

At one point they said that his knowledge of magic was limited to basic mystic bolts and shields. There was a panel in one issue (sorry I don't remember which) in which Doom hits a normal man with a mystic bolt and all it does is stagger the guy. By the time of the tournament for the title of Sorceror Supreme he is more powerful and skilled than that but still uses the same basic techniques in the tournament. He was not even a legitimate entry in the tournament by his own admission. There are many others far stronger and more knowledgeable than Doom. Mr. Jip is nearly the equal of Strange and may actually have more mystic knowledge than Strange.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

How about this?



And I'll quote wikipedia (again, i know....not the greatest source in the world), in the Doctor Doom page under Goals:

"When the Fantastic Four returned from the alternate Earth to which they had been shunted following their confrontation with the sentient psionic being Onslaught, Doctor Doom remained behind and conquered that planet, which he dubbed "Planet Doom". On both occasions he led the world into a unparalleled prosperity and eventually abdicated, finding the task of world management tedious.

In a short-lived series of comics set in the year 2099, Doctor Doom was transported to that time from some point in our current near-future and upon seeing the decrepit state of Latveria he becomes the President of the United States in order to curb the power of the megacorporations based there that were oppressing his people. As a side effect he began improving the quality of life in the U.S. as well, re-instituting democracy and an effective non-corrupt police force.

Doctor Doom's plans are fueled by his ego and his conviction that he is not only capable of world domination, but also worthy and deserving of it. While he places little value on the lives of others, he also follows a code of honor. Several times he has struck bargains with various characters in the Marvel Universe, and has upheld those bargains. He is a cruel and ruthless dictator, willing to deliver swift and cruel punishments, yet he also treats his subjects fairly and at times has even put himself at risk to protect his kingdom and subjects."

So while I do believe that Doom is after power, I don't believe that he ONLY wants to rule the world for the sake of his ego but for the order and prosperity that he believes he can provide the world.

Besides, the best villians aren't PURE evil (Mephisto a boooring villian). They live in shades of gray.



Well I wouldn't know anything about that...so i'll have to assume that you do.

That'll do nicely, actually. An example of what Doom does, and how it could reflect on his characterization.

However, he's shown this little piece in the past, in willing to ally himself with things he normally wouldn't for the sake of Latveria. But it never is in the people's defense as much as the countries. The way he oppresses and is willing to kill his own people if they disobey and such leads to the idea that if his country's populace was fully replacable, he'd be willing to sacrifice it for a greater glory. But as it stands, he will not for two reasons. Reason one, his country is really all he has true power over, and won't let it go, and two, if he were to not find ways of toppling his adversaries (note that in the 2099 universe, that the countries weren't run by governments, but by mega corporations that made country large decisions), and the best way to do that is to stop it at it's source, since the USA was basically the leader of the entire world by then via megacorporations. And so, in this scape, he was able to return the USA to some of it's former democracy, and pull the vice off of his own country for him to go back to if he so choosed to.


However, his ultimate points tend to go to greater power.

The only true example I could really pull that would make sense of all it in a quick swoop comes from an Elseworlds title in DC called "Red Son." Where Superman lands in Russia and is raised that way. Throughout the entire book, Lex Luthor is trying to stop him, but in the end, only sees one way to do it. By taking over the USA as president, and running it his way. And in the process, he makes the USA the most prosperous country in all of history and such, but the only reason he did it was to show Superman he was better. Granted, Luthor and Doom aren't exactly the same person or even characterization, but they do lend to similar goals and practices.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

What is this "Small amount of Mystic knowledge" stuff. Doom is the runner up for Sorcerer Supreme isn't he?

In comparison to Strange, (since whenever we talk about magic, we seem to compare it to Strange) Doom is fairly limited. However, Doom's potential of magic is pretty much second to Strange and other big magical guns.

 

[Kitsune]

None of the frigging above... Magnetto when written well is the best villian.

 

[juggster-rules]

the most popular is magneto but if i have to choose from the list i say galactus

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Hardly. My favorite villan was definitely not Magneto. I put Mandarin above him, and I still don't consider the Mandarin as the greatest villan.

 

[Devastator85]

Loki

 

[Kitsune]

Hardly. My favorite villan was definitely not Magneto. I put Mandarin above him, and I still don't consider the Mandarin as the greatest villan.

Okay, that's your oppinion... I'll just file it with "The US deserved 9/11" and all the other oppinions I disagree with.


On an added note, I wanted to point out that "Most powerfull" and "Greatest" are not the same thing. For example Joker is the greatest Batman villian, while Bane was an over rated **** villian despite the fact that Bane is far more powerful.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Okay, that's your oppinion... I'll just file it with "The US deserved 9/11" and all the other oppinions I disagree with.


On an added note, I wanted to point out that "Most powerfull" and "Greatest" are not the same thing. For example Joker is the greatest Batman villian, while Bane was an over rated **** villian despite the fact that Bane is far more powerful.

Did someone just try to insult me?

 

[Phaedrus45]

My favorite of all time, but usually written rather poorly: TASKMASTER!

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Taskmaster totally rocks. When he's written well, he's one of my absolute favorite characters. Him and Nefaria.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Taskmaster totally rocks. When he's written well, he's one of my absolute favorite characters. Him and Nefaria.

?

He and Nefaria.

- Whirly

 

[GoblinScrier]

Doom is not just the greatest villain of the marvel universe, but in my opinion, the single greatest villain in all of literature. Such a complex history and background..his accomplishments rival the gods...absorbing the Surfer's cosmic power, defeating Galactus and usurping the Beyonder's power. Conquering Earth on several occasions only to give it up out of sheer boredom, as well taking over Heroes Reborn Earth and dubbing it Planet Doom.

I just wish the first film captured any of these awesome traits of Doom (even though I am a huge supporter of Julian McMahon as Doom)...that is why I am given hope for the sequel...

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

?

He and Nefaria.

- Whirly

Actually, him works out quite well without grammatical error.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Actually, him works out quite well without grammatical error.

No, it doesn't.

- Whirly

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

No, it doesn't.

- Whirly

Oh yes, it does.

And you can argue with me about it all you like, but you will not find my mind changed.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Yes, I would say he is. I still wouldn't count out Apoc for that title either, though. But the DR. would prob be next in line.

When was Apocalypse ever shown to be adept in the art of sorcery?