Greatest Marvel Villain of ALL time

[freemadison]

Though I don't really see how your explanation of Malcom X served in the whole Magneto/Hitler point, but Magneto could DEFINITELY be related to Hitler.

Hitler believed in a Master Race. As did Magneto.

Hitler raised an army and put the fear of God and lies into them to get them to give rise to this Master Race. Magneto did the same thing.

Hitler would pompously address his own troops in big crowded fashions like Magneto (though any politician has done the same) but only to drive up the patriotic drive of eliminating the opposing force.

Hitler believed in near extermination of the opposing races, though a few would be left alive to serve the superior race. Magneto had the SAME idea.

Doom is just more or less, "I am Doom, and the rest are rats." No master race, not inferior race. Just himself, and his subjects that should serve him faithfully, and worship him.

It depends on how he's been characterized. Somehow, I doubt that someone analogous to Hitler could be one of Xavier's best friends. Xavier was an intellectual and would not be able to carry a real conversation with Magnus if his philosophies weren't congruent to a certain extent. The real difference between the two is that Magneto went about things in the wrong way.

For a while, Malcolm X honestly believed that blacks were superior.

Malcolm X was a highly charismatic individual who inspired blacks to pursue civil rights (often by any means necessary).

Malcolm X, like Magneto, was very much about representing his people.

"Whites can help us, but they can't join us. There can be no black/white unity, until there is first some black unity." -- From the press conference at which he announced the formation of Muslim Mosque, Inc.; cited in The Autobiography.

Magneto started Asteroid M so that there could be a safe haven for mutants (sound like Israel?), NOT because he's disgusted by human beings and thinks they should be boiled to wax.

Sure, when he's written poorly (and it's happened a lot) he comes off as an incredible bigot. But when he's written correctly he's an extremist with criminal, terrorist METHODS. Like Terrorists, he kills and inspires fear to get his point across (even if his point may be correct). That's why he's a criminal and a villian. It's the wrong way.

X-Men #1 (introducing Magneto and Xavier) came out in 1963. Malcolm X died in 1965. Stan Lee based his concepts of prejudice against mutants on the civil rights issues and battles that were happening all over the nation. Who do you think he based Xavier and Malcolm X on? Jesus and Hitler/KKK. Pssh.

But you are right about Doom. Doom is all about himself. And that's way worse. Which is why Doom is a much better villian in my opinion.

Nice Sig btw. REAL tolerant.

 

[T'Jai]

But the Thread question is "Who is the Greatest"? Seems like we've got a contradiction in terminology here. Good job, thread-starter guy.

's why I answered both questions

 

[herakles]

In my opinion Marvel Greatest Villian is either Dr Doom or Thanos.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

It depends on how he's been characterized. Somehow, I doubt that someone analogous to Hitler could be one of Xavier's best friends. Xavier was an intellectual and would not be able to carry a real conversation with Magnus if his philosophies weren't congruent to a certain extent. The real difference between the two is that Magneto went about things in the wrong way.

For a while, Malcolm X honestly believed that blacks were superior.

Malcolm X was a highly charismatic individual who inspired blacks to pursue civil rights (often by any means necessary).

Malcolm X, like Magneto, was very much about representing his people.

"Whites can help us, but they can't join us. There can be no black/white unity, until there is first some black unity." -- From the press conference at which he announced the formation of Muslim Mosque, Inc.; cited in The Autobiography.

Magneto started Asteroid M so that there could be a safe haven for mutants (sound like Israel?), NOT because he's disgusted by human beings and thinks they should be boiled to wax.

Sure, when he's written poorly (and it's happened a lot) he comes off as an incredible bigot. But when he's written correctly he's an extremist with criminal, terrorist METHODS. Like Terrorists, he kills and inspires fear to get his point across (even if his point may be correct). That's why he's a criminal and a villian. It's the wrong way.

X-Men #1 (introducing Magneto and Xavier) came out in 1963. Malcolm X died in 1965. Stan Lee based his concepts of prejudice against mutants on the civil rights issues and battles that were happening all over the nation. Who do you think he based Xavier and Malcolm X on? Jesus and Hitler/KKK. Pssh.

But you are right about Doom. Doom is all about himself. And that's way worse. Which is why Doom is a much better villian in my opinion.

Nice Sig btw. REAL tolerant.

If you were to compare me to the rest of the Beaumonte family, you'd find me to be the paragon of acceptance. Since I consider you to be human and all.

Though I have been wanting to change it.

Anyways. Magneto's basic idea is still comparable with Hitler's over X's simply because he doesn't see the human race as helping the mutants, and more or less as a disease that should go away. And while he definitely isn't going to just flat out kill people like he once did, he's still extremely against the prohuman/mutant cause, and very much so anti human. However, Magneto wasn't as "cut off" as Hitler. Hitler was the heart that drove the machine, where Magneto is more of the muscles that shield the heart. His movement was capable of moving on without him, and was not exactly the most genocidal person in existance. Which would explain a friendship with Xavier. Eric doesn't actually actively encamp and kill humans, though if it were to happen, one would doubt that he'd mind. He doesn't actively kill humans that often (I don't think he actually hunts them out really) but his feelings toward humans are something of a sub species, or not even the same thing. Where Malcom X obviously had a different view, being not iron clad in his own idea.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Years ago there was a time when Magneto and the X-Men were trapped on an island in the Bermuda triangle when he talked to the X-Men about his goals. He said that he wanted to create a utopia for both humans and mutants where famine, disease and oppression were eliminated. When he succeeded in setting it up he had always intended to turn the world over to the X-Men to rule.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Sounds like Dr. Doom. However he would only trust himself to rule.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

It's very different. Doom craves power for its own sake. Magneto doesn't want power but believes he has to have it to get the world peace he does want. He believes that unless he does it no one will.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Not really. Doom genuinely wants peace. But he believes that the only way that will happen is if he rules. I'm not saying that he doesn't have pride and vanity. It's more than just black and white.

Doom has never really craved power just for power's sake. It is a means to an end for Doom. The end being world order.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

If they're saying that now its relatively new. Dooms whole history in the comics has been about his personal power,glory and ego. The only exceptions have been the stories where he tried to free his mothers soul from Mephisto. Even when he sided with the FF against the Overmind it was to protect himself and his kingdom as well.

 

[Franklin Richards]

You act like ego and the desire for order are exclusive of one another. They are not. Doom feels that only he can bring about his order. And if he has to take down Richards and everyone else, then so be it.

 

[The Question]

Personally, I'd say either Doom or Magneto. Maybe Purple Man too. I go by how well the characters have been developed and written, not sheer badassery.

 

[Docker2.0]

I voted Doom. But IMHO Apocolypse has got to be the most underrated villian in comics. He and Mr. Sinister could be major players if Marvel used them right. Apocolypse could take out superman! Yep, I said it!
How can you have this thread and not have Thanos as an option?

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Not really. Doom genuinely wants peace. But he believes that the only way that will happen is if he rules. I'm not saying that he doesn't have pride and vanity. It's more than just black and white.

Doom has never really craved power just for power's sake. It is a means to an end for Doom. The end being world order.

Whoa. That was far off from Doom. While Doom does somewhat desire peace for the world, it is only second to him having absolute power over it.

He definitely craves power just for it.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Personally, I'd say either Doom or Magneto. Maybe Purple Man too. I go by how well the characters have been developed and written, not sheer badassery.

I go for potential.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Whoa. That was far off from Doom. While Doom does somewhat desire peace for the world, it is only second to him having absolute power over it.

He definitely craves power just for it.

To crave power "just for it" is without focus. So he gets all of the power. What happens next?

 

[unstoppable]

what no Green Goblin

 

[Silicon Surfer]

To crave power "just for it" is without focus. So he gets all of the power. What happens next?

Exactly! That's always been who Doom was. When he used his gas to take over peoples minds he effectively ruled the world. The problem he had was that it didn't satisfy him. Nobody knew so his ego wasn't fed and he didn't know what to do with the world now that he had it. Doom has never cared about order only his own huge ego.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Exactly! That's always been who Doom was. When he used his gas to take over peoples minds he effectively ruled the world. The problem he had was that it didn't satisfy him. Nobody knew so his ego wasn't fed and he didn't know what to do with the world now that he had it. Doom has never cared about order only his own huge ego.

You make some valid points, but he has always cared about order. Latveria is a monument to that. "This Land is Mine" is a great example. I'm not saying that part of his desire didn't stem from the fact that Zorba run the place and he didn't but to deny the desire to make his home a better place is just naive.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

It depends on how he's been characterized. Somehow, I doubt that someone analogous to Hitler could be one of Xavier's best friends. Xavier was an intellectual and would not be able to carry a real conversation with Magnus if his philosophies weren't congruent to a certain extent. The real difference between the two is that Magneto went about things in the wrong way.

For a while, Malcolm X honestly believed that blacks were superior.

Malcolm X was a highly charismatic individual who inspired blacks to pursue civil rights (often by any means necessary).

Malcolm X, like Magneto, was very much about representing his people.

"Whites can help us, but they can't join us. There can be no black/white unity, until there is first some black unity." -- From the press conference at which he announced the formation of Muslim Mosque, Inc.; cited in The Autobiography.

Magneto started Asteroid M so that there could be a safe haven for mutants (sound like Israel?), NOT because he's disgusted by human beings and thinks they should be boiled to wax.

Sure, when he's written poorly (and it's happened a lot) he comes off as an incredible bigot. But when he's written correctly he's an extremist with criminal, terrorist METHODS. Like Terrorists, he kills and inspires fear to get his point across (even if his point may be correct). That's why he's a criminal and a villian. It's the wrong way.

X-Men #1 (introducing Magneto and Xavier) came out in 1963. Malcolm X died in 1965. Stan Lee based his concepts of prejudice against mutants on the civil rights issues and battles that were happening all over the nation. Who do you think he based Xavier and Malcolm X on? Jesus and Hitler/KKK. Pssh.

But you are right about Doom. Doom is all about himself. And that's way worse. Which is why Doom is a much better villian in my opinion.

Nice Sig btw. REAL tolerant.

Malcom X did NOT believe blacks were superior

 

[The Caped Knight]

Dr. Doom is the Greatest Marvel Villain of ALL time

 

[Ash J. Williams]

Dr. Doom for the win.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

To crave power "just for it" is without focus. So he gets all of the power. What happens next?

He's actually been at that point. And what did he do with it? Pittiling nothing. And then he was bored. He basically had the power of God, and did absolutely NOTHING with it.


And if you knew genius', they tend to operate without pure focus. They usually have a broad focus of things.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

You make some valid points, but he has always cared about order. Latveria is a monument to that. "This Land is Mine" is a great example. I'm not saying that part of his desire didn't stem from the fact that Zorba run the place and he didn't but to deny the desire to make his home a better place is just naive.

A better place for him to rule over. He tends to not care about the little things, just the concepts of things.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Mistress. I've read as much Doom as you. So do me a favor, just reference it, don't act like your educating me. It's patronizing.

I'd be curious to see Magneto get as much power as Doom has acquired. He'd prolly get bored too.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Mistress. I've read as much Doom as you. So do me a favor, just reference it, don't act like your educating me. It's patronizing.

I'd be curious to see Magneto get as much power as Doom has acquired. He'd prolly get bored too.

Usually one educates to get a point across. Since education is more or less the act of learning something new.

If you've read that much Doom, then you'd definitely know that he's all about power and attaining it. And I wouldn't have to be patronizing.

Either way, Magneto is far more responsible with power than Doom is. Though the chances of him having that much power and his behaviour would be different from Doom's.