Harley Quinn Girl-Gang Movie Based on "Birds of Prey"

[Black Narcissus]

Eh, this black canary hill ain't a good one to die on. lol

She can be white, black, asian, brown, red, blue, orange...I just want her to be hnnngh and the movie to be good, fam. lol

 

[DarthSkywalker]

“Hand me down” implies people in the audience know enough to care. As far as the audience is concerned, the movie versions of characters like Valkyrie or Nick Fury are the main versions. If y’all a think the audience has enough of a preexisting connection to someone like Black Canary for it to be an issue, you’re dreaming.

This is very true. The only people who'd be up in arms are comic purist and well... racist.

I also think this would be a good time to point out, the first ever Wonder Woman on the big screen is from Israel. Did the general audiences care?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Eh, this black canary hill ain't a good one to die on. lol

She can be white, black, asian, brown, red, blue, orange...I just want her to be hnnngh and the movie to be good, fam. lol

I want her to be a woman with naturally orange skin, just to see the reaction from those freaking out about Starfire.

But if I am honest, yeah, if I find the actress attractive and good in the role, I am all good in terms of casting.

 

[fan4stic]

The BC character is white. Just like making Blade white would be pointless, I think the same here.

 

[fan4stic]

This is very true. The only people who'd be up in arms are comic purist and well... racist.

I also think this would be a good time to point out, the first ever Wonder Woman on the big screen is from Israel. Did the general audiences care?

I'm not for this and I'm not a comic purist and I'd be cool with Idris Elba playing Batman over Adam Driver.

 

[fan4stic]

Except Canary is the biggest character in this film apart from Harley and is rumored to be the team leader so she wont be 2nd hand.

With all the damage done by Arrow, I think most are ambivalent. I think Catwoman would garner more attention, who I think could be race changed based on the character's look.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm not for this and I'm not a comic purist and I'd be cool with Idris Elba playing Batman over Adam Driver.

I am not sure what you mean. You aren't for a race change for Black Canary, but cool with one for Batman if it meant not Adam Driver? Is Adam Driver also up for Black Canary?

 

[jmc]

Yes. But it is a question if it is most minorities? I'd say the vast majority don't even know this is an argument, and would be rather accepting of any version of a comic character they get. If you had 10 black people in a room, and two of them thought a black Iron Man was a bad idea, would that mean most minorities are against it?

Something like Buffy or Charmed, we are talking about things that have one definitive take. Sarah Michelle Geller is Buffy. no one else is. Comic characters have runs involving vastly different takes on the characters. Batman has been an actual Bat. He has gone after Jack the Ripper. His mom has been the Joker. He has been a Nazi. He has hung out with Hellboy. There is whatever Frank Miller did to him. He survived in the Jurassic era. He was fused with Wolverine.

If one version of Batman isn't a white guy, if he is black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, or anything else, is that in anyway different from all the versions of Batman we have gotten? Its just one different take. Hell since I was a kid I have lived through vastly different takes of Batman in the film, television, video game and animation world.

So I don't think changing a comic characters race is the end all be all. It isn't PC run amok or an insult to any community. And honestly, if it is the biggest problem for someone, they will have plenty of different takes on the character to look forward to in the future.

Then perhaps you should ask the question first, because that article, as well as my own interaction with people of minority communities, included two I work for, indicates that this isn't something that is universally liked. I think the thing you are overlooking is the importance of mythologies for people. It's not that people are just looking for characters who look like them, it's that they want their own mythologies also, that means characters who were built with them in mind. The main problem I have with the whole race changing thing is that it essentially means mythologies aren't evolving, it's just stuck in a perpetual cycle where nothing new is added and band aid solutions are used to fix things. This is where you get the blow back from fans of the existing characters, as well as from minority people who agree with the article.

 

[Primal Slayer]

The BC character is white. Just like making Blade white would be pointless, I think the same here.

The two are not remotely the same. Black characters are like 1 in a million compared to white characters, especially superheroes. Making Black Canary into a POC only gives us more representation that we already lack.

Sure, should DC have just used Vixen? Hell yeah! But they didnt. If they cast a non-white actress to play Black Canary the only thing that will piss me off is if she is written badly and ill be annoyed if she isnt blonde (thats my main gripe with adaptions...hair color lol)

Then perhaps you should ask the question first, because that article, as well as my own interaction with people of minority communities, included two I work for, indicates that this isn't something that is universally liked. I think the thing you are overlooking is the importance of mythologies for people. It's not that people are just looking for characters who look like them, it's that they want their own mythologies also, that means characters who were built with them in mind. The main problem I have with the whole race changing thing is that it essentially means mythologies aren't evolving, it's just stuck in a perpetual cycle where nothing new is added and band aid solutions are used to fix things. This is where you get the blow back from fans of the existing characters, as well as from minority people who agree with the article.

For as many minorities who want original characters instead of taking over established characters, there are just as many minorities who don't care.

 

[Juan1193]

Why would it be dumb specifically?

Because Black Canary will still be White everywhere else. Much like Deadshot is still White. It makes more sense to include pre-existing diverse characters in big budget films in order to expose them to the masses and make them popular enough to be used everywhere else (comics, video games, tv shows, animation...etc).

Suicide Squad, despite being an arguably mediocre film, managed to get El Diablo and Katana out there in mass media. I'd like to see more of that, just with quality movies this time.

 

[jmc]

For as many minorities who want original characters instead of taking over established characters, there are just as many minorities who don't care.

Then people shouldn't complain when the race bending goes the other way. We can't have it both ways.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Then perhaps you should ask the question first, because that article, as well as my own interaction with people of minority communities, included two I work for, indicates that this isn't something that is universally liked. I think the thing you are overlooking is the importance of mythologies for people. It's not that people are just looking for characters who look like them, it's that they want their own mythologies also, that means characters who were built with them in mind. The main problem I have with the whole race changing thing is that it essentially means mythologies aren't evolving, it's just stuck in a perpetual cycle where nothing new is added and band aid solutions are used to fix things. This is where you get the blow back from fans of the existing characters, as well as from minority people who agree with the article.

For people? I am people.

Your anecdotal evidence seems biased towards your own feelings on the subject. Again, Wonder Woman is Jewish. Was this a deal?

I also think it is a bit strange to consider a character like Bruce Wayne's mythology to be based around his race. He's a American, with a very American backstory. He is not Black Panther, whose character's identity has a lot to do with his race. Being from Wakanda, means something different from being born in the DC equivalent of New York or Chicago. What about Bruce Wayne's mythology requires he be white?

 

[Primal Slayer]

Then people shouldn't complain when the race bending goes the other way. We can't have it both ways.

People have every right to complain.

Look at this picture

If you made any of them black, how many white people do you have left? 7.

Look at how many movies are predominately white compared to black/Asian/etc...You're still getting representation no matter what.

Not to mention that 99% of these comic characters are white because of the time they were created in. 99% of them are straight because of the time they were created in. Take 1 away and just like I said earlier you still have a million white characters to play with. Take away 1 black character and you have like 99 characters.

And let's not even get into how many movies have been whitewashed or have white actors play blackface, yellow face, etc..Maybe when we race bend the amount of characters that have been taken away from us in the first place....we can (not really) call it even.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Then people shouldn't complain when the race bending goes the other way. We can't have it both ways.

Ignoring context does not make such a suggestion right.

 

[Fincher]

I don't have an issue with racebending in general (although I'm not getting into what most minorities do or don't want), I just don't want Black Canary specifically to be racebent.

 

[fan4stic]

I am not sure what you mean. You aren't for a race change for Black Canary, but cool with one for Batman if it meant not Adam Driver? Is Adam Driver also up for Black Canary?

I was making a point that race changing is pointless to me and explaining that I can accept the right actor, but Elba is a specific actor that could fit the look. BC isn't that kinda character to me. It's like the difference between race changing Catwoman and Mary-Jane. MJ has a look that doesn't automatically translate to another race. Catwoman does. Huntress can too. Angel in X-Men doesn't have to be white either. Even though his look is blonde, the importance is his wings. I don't think Jean. You can cast Oscar Isaac for Reed etc. I don't think race change fits the character's look.

The two are not remotely the same. Black characters are like 1 in a million compared to white characters, especially superheroes. Making Black Canary into a POC only gives us more representation that we already lack.

Sure, should DC have just used Vixen? Hell yeah! But they didnt. If they cast a non-white actress to play Black Canary the only thing that will piss me off is if she is written badly and ill be annoyed if she isnt blonde (thats my main gripe with adaptions...hair color lol)

I won't be angry, I just think it's pointless. I probably won't see the movie anyway. No Barbara, Harley Quinn focus, not my thing. You're asking for a balancing act in race changing. It doesn't exist. Even if there were more black characters than white, I don't think it would matter.

 

[jmc]

For people? I am people.

Your anecdotal evidence seems biased towards your own feelings on the subject. Again, Wonder Woman is Jewish. Was this a deal?

I also think it is a bit strange to consider a character like Bruce Wayne's mythology to be based around his race. He's a American, with a very American backstory. He is not Black Panther, whose character's identity has a lot to do with his race. Being from Wakanda, means something different from being born in the DC equivalent of New York or Chicago. What about Bruce Wayne's mythology requires he be white?

But you're picking and choosing which ethnicity is more important. To you it might not matter what Bruce Wayne's heritage is, but to someone else it might. There's nothing wrong with having the characters be the ethnicity they were initially conceived as being. We have to stop looking through the lens of today for characters that were created decades before any of us were born because times were different back then. The issue is there's been little in the way of genuine effort to increase the level of characters from diverse backgrounds to fit with todays audiences. Race swapping is a lazy mans attempt to address what the real problem is - the stagnation of these mythologies, the acknowledgement that they need to reflect today's societies, but doing the bare minimum to solve the issue.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

We need more Australian characters in superhero movies. There's only been one.

 

[Fincher]

We need more Australian characters in superhero movies. There's only been one.

Maybe, but there's been a whole bunch of Australian actors, so it balances out.

 

[jmc]

People have every right to complain.

Look at this picture

If you made any of them black, how many white people do you have left? 7.

Look at how many movies are predominately white compared to black/Asian/etc...You're still getting representation no matter what.

Not to mention that 99% of these comic characters are white because of the time they were created in. 99% of them are straight because of the time they were created in. Take 1 away and just like I said earlier you still have a million white characters to play with. Take away 1 black character and you have like 99 characters.

And let's not even get into how many movies have been whitewashed or have white actors play blackface, yellow face, etc..Maybe when we race bend the amount of characters that have been taken away from us in the first place....we can (not really) call it even.

You're illustrating my point though. The problem isn't these characters exist, the problem is there's been no real evolution from these character, at least not to the degree that probably should happen. If you're looking for some type of creative 'payback' for the roles that were played by white actors then I really think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. Eye for an eye stuff is pointless to me and all you get are arguments. We've got to accept these characters were created decades ago and ask for something new for today that compliments what already exists. You don't need to retcon things, it's not a one or the other situation.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Except the studios are clearly not interested in using newer characters. They want iconic characters that have fanbases and are fairly known. We've had 3 Spidey reboots in less then 10 years, did we need another Peter Parker when they created Miles Morales and ended up taking stuff from that character?

Look at the state of television right now. How many shows are being rebooted/revived in place of new original programming? You expect us to sit back and wait for our time?

 

[Juan1193]

This is basically a rehash of the Zatanna/Black Orchid raceswapping debate for JLD. Only now it's with Black Canary and BOP

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I think the big takeaway from that Avengers photo is that perhaps the diversity issue is not as big as people think, considering how successful that movie was, in countries all over the world.

And also, maybe there's better ways to do minority groups justice (Black Panther).

But it's clear that there's money to be made by appealing to underserved audiences, so I'm okay with race-swapping if they feel it'll lead to bigger box office. But I'm not for race-swapping for fear of complaints of lack of diversity in CBMs.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I think the big takeaway from that Avengers photo is that perhaps the diversity issue is not as big as people think, considering how successful that movie was, in countries all over the world.

And also, maybe there's better ways to do minority groups justice (Black Panther).

People of color are not not going to see a movie because it's all white. It's been the norm since hollywood started.

Racial diversity in 2017: 70.7% of charaacters were white, 12.1% black, 4.8% Asian, 1.7% Middle-Eastern, <1% Native American, <1% Native Hawaiian, and 3.9% mixed race. 43 films had no black female characters, 64 had no Latino people, and 65 did not have any Asian women characters. In contrast, only 7 were missing white women.

https://***********/tictoc/status/1025564321991024641

 

[jmc]

Except the studios are clearly not interested in using newer characters. They want iconic characters that have fanbases and are fairly known. We've had 3 Spidey reboots in less then 10 years, did we need another Peter Parker when they created Miles Morales and ended up taking stuff from that character?

Look at the state of television right now. How many shows are being rebooted/revived in place of new original programming?

And how many people do you think are genuinely happy about it all irrespective of their background? Why do you think there's been outcry's over Buffy, Charmed, Thundercats, She-Ra, TMNT etc? It's because those mythologies are important to people as they currently exist. This is the problem, TV and movies know they have to reflect society today better, but are too scared to pull the trigger on something new because everyones jobs are on the line, so all we get is this weird compromise that no-one likes.